Gentlemen, start your excuses!

jrhaile said:
As a soon to be novice, I hope the senior drivers will come to me directly if I make a mistake and I hope this continues to happen even when I'm no longer a "novice". Has anyone does this with #70? Some of those videos reminded me of 80 and 90s BTCC action.
Lost in all of this was some really good racing. Sorry I missed the weekend :(
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ICSCC is a family - and the seniors are encouraged to coach the novices so they become better drivers and more fun (and predictable) to race with.

It should never be Us against Them - ideally we can all meet after the race and discuss how it was from the other driver seat and work toward mutual improvement.

I watched the videos and saw 2 sides to each incident. I was not in the heat of the battle in any event, so my view was not tainted by high blood pressure. Was there some overly aggressive driving in my opinion -yes, would I like to be in the midst of what I saw - no, but I could see room for doubt on "intent"... So I'd make a lousy judge....
I do know you can't get in someone else's head and even harder to know what was going on at the "moment".

What we do has its risks, but I prefer ICSCC style racing to well spaced time trials or even Sovren style racing. There was too much carnage for me in the last 2 races, but I plan to go to the PIR race inspite of it. I think with some constructive internal policing (coaching, discussion - whatever) we will continue to be the best venue to race in the Northwest.
 
I am (currently until I get my OW) one of the slow movers. I see lots of interesting attitude on the track. Some of you fast movers treat me with respect. I try to do the same. I know those who like to take my side mirrors off and cut right in front of me and those who respect my place. I have moved off line and stayed in my lane too. The vast majority of ICSCC drivers are awesome folks. So here is the conundrum. Drive hard and fast, push it right to the edge in order to get the thrill we do this for. At the edge comes catastrophe when something bad happens. Intentional or not? Hard to tell without a system of cameras to check in on us. Not what I want. Too many regulations take the gentlemen out if it.

An open invitation to everyone; if I ever do somehing you think as stupid - man-up and tell me. To my face. I'll buy you a beer and listen to what you have to say cause I will likely learn something from it. I ain't so good as I am considered a professional and can make my lively hood doing it.

But we all have concerns and the forum is a great place to air them and learn.
 
A few years back when I was living in southern California and doing track days with NASA, we'd always have "download sessions" immediately after each driving session where we'd discuss how things went during that session. This served to correct any on-track issues so they wouldn't (usually) be repeated. It worked out well. I'm not sure if NASA SoCal race groups do the same thing (I think they do). Anyway, maybe we can do something like that during the Driver's Meetings on Saturday and Sunday. Make both meetings mandatory for all drivers and not just Sunday's. Quickly discuss how the practice and qual sessions went for each group and make the necessary "attitude adjustments".

Just some food for thought.
 
Well, the decisions have been published.

#70 was disqualified; apparently nothing more for the most depraved driving I've ever seen (or hope to see). And the guy who punted me, having been docked a lap in the previous race for punting another guy, was again only docked a lap, despite showing no learning from the first episode.

I don't want to be on a track with either of those guys ever again; one's a repeat felon who showed absolutely no sign of understanding that that driving is unacceptable (we talked at length; he repeatedly blamed me), and the other showed a reckless disregard for the safety of those with whom he shares the track. It's clear that I have less stomach for gratuitous violence in this sport than others.

So be it.
 
Mark de Regt said:
Well, the decisions have been published.

#70 was disqualified; apparently nothing more for the most depraved driving I've ever seen (or hope to see). And the guy who punted me, having been docked a lap in the previous race for punting another guy, was again only docked a lap, despite showing no learning from the first episode.

I don't want to be on a track with either of those guys ever again; one's a repeat felon who showed absolutely no sign of understanding that that driving is unacceptable (we talked at length; he repeatedly blamed me), and the other showed a reckless disregard for the safety of those with whom he shares the track. It's clear that I have less stomach for gratuitous violence in this sport than others.

So be it.
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Really? That is your attitude? That is a shame. You have every right to be upset, I would be too over what happened.

Remember the ICSCC rules were written, and approved by racers for racers. These rules were designed to not only to penalize this type of conduct but to protect YOU if you had made a mistake. If offenders repeat the penalties get more severe. To ban a driver for a mistake once would be out of line. One was DQ'd so he got no results for his time or money. The other was docked a lap ruining his race for his actions.

While I don't condone what they did, the penalities are per the rule book. If they're behavior continues the penalties will become more severe per the rules.

I hope if you race again you never make a mistake. The rules are the same for all, even you. One bad weekend (really bad weekend) does not a hobby make.
 
Scott Norton said:
Really? That is your attitude? That is a shame. You have every right to be upset, I would be too over what happened.

Remember the ICSCC rules were written, and approved by racers for racers. These rules were designed to not only to penalize this type of conduct but to protect YOU if you had made a mistake. If offenders repeat the penalties get more severe. To ban a driver for a mistake once would be out of line. One was DQ'd so he got no results for his time or money. The other was docked a lap ruining his race for his actions.

While I don't condone what they did, the penalities are per the rule book. If they're behavior continues the penalties will become more severe per the rules.

I hope if you race again you never make a mistake. The rules are the same for all, even you. One bad weekend (really bad weekend) does not a hobby make.
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I understand that the penalties are what they are. I even accept that I'm in the minority, thinking that it's absurd to coddle dangerous drivers.

If I had done what #70 did, I would retire before I killed someone, so I don't understand the concept of "protecting" him. The guy who punted me did the same thing in the previous Conference race, and received the same penalty. Not much there in the way of learning by the driver, or effective message-sending by the club.

I've explained, clearly and at great length, my feelings about these incidents in particular, and the increasing level of avoidable contact in club racing in our area in general. If I can't go into a corner side-by-side with the people with whom I share the track, there's no point in playing; the fun is gone for me. And it's clear that (i) there are a number of people with whom I cannot feel comfortable going into a turn side-by-side, and (ii) there is no general desire to change that.

So I will stop, probably permanently.
 
Okay Tom. Admit to everyone that you have possession of the "Big Book of Bad Boys" (and girls too, I suppose though none come to mind right now).

This ancient text is passed down from Steward to Steward in some secretively obscure ceremony performed in the dark, dank, smoke filled halls, or a back room some place.

Otherwise, we may only have the archived logs and records of each club's Base communicator. How long does your club keep those?

Oops! I shouldn't have asked that.
 
I'm trying very hard to stay out of this. Honestly, this thread is causing me an intense amount of stress, as many are insinuating that I'm not doing my job. If you really think I'm letting all this slide, you are very mistaken.

As I mentioned in my post several pages ago, the entire story is not told on the race results. More will be shown in the Penalty Box in the Memo, but it is again not the entire story. I know it's hard, but you're going to have to trust me that I'm handling it as best as I know how. I have several the ex-Stewards helping me out non-stop on this one along with my 2 current very able Assistants, so I'm not acting alone. It's been a minimum of 6 hours a day since Monday, and today's no different. There's decades of Conference leadership all putting our heads together to figure out the best way to handle the situation.

Ken, since you asked me a direct question, yes, there is a record for every infraction going back a very long time. I take that into account when judging a current investigation.

Tom Olsson
2011 Race Steward
 
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Thank you Tom for volunteering to take on a rather thankless job, while giving up your own racing opportunities. I believe you're doing an exceptionally thorough and thoughtful job, given the tools and information you have at your disposal. Without your efforts and commitment, none of us would be able to race, so I thank you very much.
 
Thanks, Tom. I don't think that you should take any of the 'chaff' shells landing around here as any indication that you aren't doing the job that you need to do under the constraints of the regulations that you need to adhere to.

If nothing else lets appreciate that a little steam venting can be a healthy thing where to much of it might cause one to drown.

But now the issue of historic archives of previous seasons has the wraps off, the appropriate individuals have a grasp of the situation, and people can focus on the next event.

possum_lodge_crest.jpg

"Quando omni flunkus moritati. (When all else fails, play dead.)
I'm a man, but I can change if I have to, I guess"​
 
tom_olsson said:
I'm trying very hard to stay out of this. Honestly, this thread is causing me an intense amount of stress, as many are insinuating that I'm not doing my job. If you really think I'm letting all this slide, you are very mistaken.

As I mentioned in my post several pages ago, the entire story is not told on the race results. More will be shown in the Penalty Box in the Memo, but it is again not the entire story. I know it's hard, but you're going to have to trust me that I'm handling it as best as I know how. I have several the ex-Stewards helping me out non-stop on this one along with my 2 current very able Assistants, so I'm not acting alone. It's been a minimum of 6 hours a day since Monday, and today's no different. There's decades of Conference leadership all putting our heads together to figure out the best way to handle the situation.

Ken, since you asked me a direct question, yes, there is a record for every infraction going back a very long time. I take that into account when judging a current investigation.

Tom Olsson
2011 Race Steward
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Adam was telling me on the way home that he was really feeling sorry when he had to call you and report that more paper was going your way. Hope you get a little time to catch your breath before ORP.
 
Randy Blaylock said:
Thank you Tom for volunteering to take on a rather thankless job, while giving up your own racing opportunities. I believe you're doing an exceptionally thorough and thoughtful job, given the tools and information you have at your disposal. Without your efforts and commitment, none of us would be able to race, so I thank you very much.
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I wouldn't want his job that's for sure. Trying to keep everyone happy and safe all at the same time? Pass.
 
Mark,

Please do not jump to conclusions that you are seeing all the penalties and actions taken by the Stewards in just looking at the race results. The race results only show penalties issued which change the results (i.e., lap penalties and disqualification).

Wait for the Memo to arrive and check out the "Penalty Box" for other penalties issued to the offending drivers. Note: Discussions and other actions to be taken with the offending drivers on what will happen to them if they offend again are not always published

For all the arm chair quarterbacks out there, ICSCC is looking for an Assistant Steward for next year, who will become the Steward the following year. For doing this you get to give up a minimum of 47 days a year away from your family attending races and meetings. You also get to give up at least 150 hours per year dealing with pre race, post race, pre season and post season issues. If interested please contact Dennis Peters, Rick Delamare or myself. Oh, I forgot to mention the pay.............$0.

Dan Heinrich
 
Randy Blaylock said:
Thank you Tom for volunteering to take on a rather thankless job, while giving up your own racing opportunities. I believe you're doing an exceptionally thorough and thoughtful job, given the tools and information you have at your disposal. Without your efforts and commitment, none of us would be able to race, so I thank you very much.
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+10000

Tom, thanks for all of your hard work.
 
Tom, I was impressed with how you handled the "hearing" for my punting; you struck me as having all the attributes we could hope for in a steward. I am truly sorry for increasing your stress level from last weekend.

But I understand that your job is to enforce the rules you're given. If those rules mandate only a certain penalty, that's all you can do. If those rules mandate keeping the full extent of the penalties secret, that's what you must do, although I think the "general deterrence" aspect of punishment is lost when nobody sees that the punishment can be (as it should be) severe for egregious or repeat bad behavior, and the community would, in my opinion, feel better knowing that those driving dangerously, or repeatedly badly, were seriously whacked.

In any event, my decision really is more the result of a long-term feeling that things are increasingly gratuitously dangerous out there, with too many people willing to do unnecessary, dangerous things for a position, and (as evidenced by many of the comments in this thread) too many willing to "forgive and forget," as if racing were an activity where mistakes/bad choices by a participant didn't seriously imperil others. I had three unpleasant events with two separate racers in two races on Sunday (only one of which got written up; one didn't cost me a position or a fender, and the other, in the scheme of the mayhem in Groups 1 and 2, I chose not to pursue other than with the driver who didn't know I was next to him all the way around turn 2, and exited to the edge of the track, forcing me off) all of which decreased my faith in my fellow racers.

I really do appreciate all the work the stewards do, without which we couldn't race. But I like to re-examine from time to time how I spend my time, energy and money, and last weekend culminated that re-examination, for me, with a firm belief that too many of those in the game, and too many joining, are quite willing to risk my neck on the track in unnecessary ways. Perhaps my risk tolerance is less than others, but there is it.

I still love racing, and I may choose not to sell my car immediately, instead watching the results in Conference and Oregon Region SCCA, to see if there's a place for me where I feel the risk is acceptable.

For now, there is no such place in local road racing. But I certainly don't blame Tom.
 
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Regarding the Penalty Box in the Memo: I've always loved that feature. As one of the volunteers who frequently has the sad duty to write up some of the incident reports that occasionally bury the poor steward, I like being able to read the outcome of all that paperwork. Thanks for bringing it back Tom.
 
Quite the 'pitch' there, Dan. You make it sound so good. It's been awhile since you've been to that plate, waiting for that inside slider to take you at the knees.

There'll be none of these shenanigans allowed to go on at the ORP. We're all wise to ya now.

I'm gonna sit on a hill, with my pen, my pad, my radio, broom, and sweep, fire bottle, and tow-straps. I'd really enjoy just watching some good racing. Don't make me use them.
 
Tom - I'm sure I don't have to convey to you the appreciation that I have for those who sacrifice personally to take the job of Steward. I have probably been heard from too often in general, and specifically in my admiration for the history of our Steward program and the quality of people who typically enter it. Thanks. This pot has been stirred enough, I am confident that you and your advisors will come to an equitable solution.

As to the driver who says they will have nothing more to say, then reappears with increasing frequency to call an ever larger portion of those in Conference increasingly insulting names: I think almost everyone here started this thread sympathetic to your cause and concerned about making sure we do all we can to prevent unneccisary incidents. You have managed to turn a great deal of negative attention from the person you wanted punished to yourself by impuning people who are working very hard on your behalf. It was for this reason that I suggested perhaps you might want to cool down and gain some perspective before continuing on your vendetta. At this point the driver in question hit you once and you have hit him about fifteen times in return. I'm no lawyer, but if you continue to use descriptors like "felon" you may be creating a written record visible to a significant number of people that justifies legal action by the person so described. I don't know about you but I have a life outside of racing and if a potential employer or customer hears you describing someone as a "felon", which has a very definite legal description, without cause it's a real problem - for you. That is why we teach small children not to call each other names. Perhaps it is not to late for you to learn the same lesson.

Additionally - racing incidents whether intentional or accidental (and no one will ever conclusively know 100% which ones are which) are kind of cyclical. I'm kind of a mid-timer. I've been racing for around ten years. There are lots of guys who have two or three times that much experience and some four plus! Even in the time I have been doing it there have been good years and there have been bad years for incidents. I would have to see some solid statistics that indicated an increase in occurance. Wasn't it only about five years ago that everyone came out of the paddock to watch Group 2 races because they were non-stop wreck fests all season? 5 had their time in the barrel not that long ago as well. Now Group 1 is having some incidents primarily because it is home to a huge group of closley regulated and competitive cars running within a second or two of each other set on a backdrop of big fast cars rocketing through six car packs with 30 mph speed differentials. I'm just not seeing the big change that other are. You can't really start singling guys out for re-education until they show themselves to be a problem and that looks like exactly what the Stewards are doing. As a result, I think the remainder of the year may be LESS of a problem than usual.

I've kept my ear to the Pro3 group after their rash of incidents and I have to say - they are doing it right. They are respectfully approaching ALL of their drivers and having a frank discussion about what they expect from each other and where they want to see the image of the class. They aren't envicerating each other in public and calling each other names, they are setting expectations, taking ownership, and attempting to educate those who need it. C'mon - we are race drivers with lots of "A" type personalities and a strong wiff of testoterone fueled conflict in the air (no disrespect to some VERY competitive female members!) and it is highly likely that I will disagree if you approach screaming with your fists clenched. Calm and reasoned professionalism will get your message across, not insults and threats.
 
WOW. Holy focus on the negative Batman. I heard there was some great racing and this is the most watched post?
We can all agree, the incidents were unfortunate and in most of the cases, avoidable. Red mist, optomizim, pride, overconfidence, F-ed up, could be any or a combination of two or all of them. We are all on the track together, it's ballet most of the time, not rock and roll. Everyone has their opinion of what happened in each instance but lets all just agree, it can't continue.
Mark, really sorry you had to deal with the incident, hope to see you back soon.
Potty Mouth, fantastic self expression! You have an any time invite to the Retro Racing paddock for a free afterhours refreshment (just follow Randy, he knows the way). Very nice drive.
Spec racing is tough. You are all within tenths every lap, unlike GT where the cars in the same class could be seconds apart. You have to be better, you have to be more aware, you have to be consideratly agressive because the car won't do it for you. I know, it's not a parade, it's racing, but their are limits. All I think anyone should be able to expect of us all is that we find the limits and stay inside them.
Now, about the passing under Yellow........really? 7? Did the pass seem just a little easy? I understand Randy's point, flag in one station, none in the next, but miss one, it's a mistake. Miss three and you just are not paying attention. Let's be better at ORP, for everyone's sake.

I finally get to drive a car.......I'm soooooo happy I can't stand it! Ya, it's an ITA car......oh my, i'm driving an ITA car......

BTW, Mark Hanken is cooking, we just can't get enough of his fiiiiiiiine meat!

Jeff Remfert
Retroracingteam.com
 
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