Gentlemen, start your excuses!

#70 not so sure he was 'all that bad'. At T-9 on the pace lap you'll notice he comes very close to the white car that's supposed to be lined up drivers left but is sorta over to the right. They don't actually touch but it's close.

Going down in to T-3A, #70 has his right wheels 'pretty' close to pavement edge and the white car sorta eases over near him then, there's a bit of a swerve by both of them and contact.. ugly but not so sure #70 is all at fault.

After restart he looked clean.
 
DavidG said:
#70 is a senior racer. I seem to remember a miata playing bumper cars with me & #09 last year and he ended up in the wall, but our club gave him an award lol.
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I find nothing funny about the increasing trend toward mayhem on the race track. I don't care if #70 is a novice, an expert, or a senile old fart, I never, ever want to be on track with him again; he either has forgotten that there are other cars on the track, or doesn't care. And I was in that race.

If we're going to be serous about getting this trend under control, it should start with serious--and possibly permanent--sanctions in the easy, most egregious cases. Like this one.
 
Even worse -- so he should know better. I hope the penalty is even worse, taking that into account. If it were a novice maybe you could ban them for a few races and make them work some corners to see how it's supposed to be done, but if it's a senior racer, then it's hopeless at this point.

Having discussed the event with some other drivers, if he's just "let off the hook" like so many people are these days, there will be fallout of lost drivers from ICSCC's ranks. Several of us would really like to know if something was done, so that we feel safe being on the track again.
 
robjacobsen said:
Does anyone have video of the BMW pair leaping over the curb and grass in front of the turn 5 station? Mac Russell near flattened his tires stopping without clobbering those cars when then came to rest blocking 2/3 of the track. We thought they were going to nail the wall in front of the station. Heartstopping moment that.
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hey Rob look at the other thread with the posted videos. Dan G pro3 #108 was right behind that, has a good in car of it.
 
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Richard Broadhead said:
#70 not so sure he was 'all that bad'. At T-9 on the pace lap you'll notice he comes very close to the white car that's supposed to be lined up drivers left but is sorta over to the right. They don't actually touch but it's close.

Going down in to T-3A, #70 has his right wheels 'pretty' close to pavement edge and the white car sorta eases over near him then, there's a bit of a swerve by both of them and contact.. ugly but not so sure #70 is all at fault.

After restart he looked clean.
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In turn 2, #70 just turned into the car to his left. No possible excuse. Going into turn 3a, if he doesn't know where his right wheels are, then he shouldn't be out there. There's no excuse in either case; both are very, very clearly his fault. Two such incidents in a career are at least one too many; two in one half lap is appalling.

"Start your excuses" indeed.
 
Mark de Regt said:
I find nothing funny about the increasing trend toward mayhem on the race track. I don't care if #70 is a novice, an expert, or a senile old fart, I never, ever want to be on track with him again; he either has forgotten that there are other cars on the track, or doesn't care. And I was in that race.

If we're going to be serous about getting this trend under control, it should start with serious--and possibly permanent--sanctions in the easy, most egregious cases. Like this one.
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I totally agree and was lol-ing that our club would award such behavior. The driver had rear ended me at T4 at PIR while he was passing under yellow, then spun #09 the next lap before he ended up in the wall. If I remember his penalty was a totalled car and $50. I am just posting here because I find it "funny" that I don't remember such an "outrage" from that event.
 
After watching some of the in car videos from this past weekend it, I would agree with others here that something needs to be looked at. I know in the past that the Stewards will not post here on the forum, its too easy to start a flame war. I do hope that those that had videos of events made them readily available to the Stewards at the track. For them to find these videos after the fact does no good. I dont even know if the rules allow them to penalize drivers after the event is over'

For those that are going to ORP. I am quite sure that answers should be available. If not there then probably in the memo. Lets wait and see how the issue was handled and give our stewards time to work.
 
It is extremely unfortunate that a few people cast such gloom over what was shaping up to be a great weekend. Sunday even had great weather. The conditions for the races couldn't have been better. Some of us had great races, but the aggressive actions of a few definitely cast an oppressive mood over a lot of people. This is not what we go to Conference races for. We should be better than that.
Not to mention, be careful not to abuse our stewards too much. We need them.

If there were mitigating circumstances that are not obvious in the videos, it would be nice if someone spoke up. Those videos are pretty severe, but I would hate to judge someone if I didn't have all the facts.

On the other hand, there was some great driving behind the incidents. It looks like there were large groups of cars at hand each time, and all managed to avoid adding to an existing problem. :)
 
I agree that it is only a few who are causing the bulk of the problems, but it seems to me, in both SCCA and Conference, that the percentage of boneheads out there is increasing. I don't know if it's the insidious influence of NASCAR, where crashes are part of the entertainment factor, of if more people have too much of their ego tied up in racing that they forget this is supposed to be just fun, but what I have seen as an increasing trend over the last couple of years seems to have exploded on Sunday in Groups 1 and 2 (and pardon my level of frustration, but I was punted late in the Group 2 race while leading Spec Miata, so I'm feeling particularly disgusted right now).

As Karen says, what should have been a spectacular day of racing ended up leaving me (and many others) with a very sour taste.
 
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As has been mentioned earlier, out of respect for those involved I won't comment on any particular incident or our decisions. You'll see some of our actions when the results are public here on the website and also in the Penalty Box in the Memo, which I'm bringing back this year. Please be patient on the results; I'm still working several reports, and probably won't be finished until Tuesday or Wednesday. Several things also happened behind the scenes as well that won't be published. So just because you don't see something in print doesn't mean I haven't taken an action different than a formal penalty. I have lots of tools in the box.

Jeez, what a mess. Honestly, I'm in as much shock as you are about what happened on Sunday. One of my primary responsibilities as your Steward is to keep the racing as safe and fun as possible. Clearly there were several race groups that didn't experience that last weekend. It's going to take the rest of the week for the Steward team to decide what our plan of action will be for the coming weekend for ORP. Please rest assured that our heads will be clear, and our actions will be well-calculated, fair, and decisive. I hope that I can restore your confidence in Conference Racing.

Tom Olsson
2011 Race Steward
 
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Thanks Tom we know that you have a tough job to sort through all this carnage. Having witnessed one of the situations in the Group 1 race with a front row seat, I must admit I am worried for our safety. What kind of example are we setting for all these new drivers in our ranks too? Things must change.

Conference drivers as a group are good drivers and I have confidence that you and your team will get this situation under control.
 
"Insidious influence of NASCAR" seriously?

When I have an issue with another driver, I try to cool off and then have a private discussion about my concerns directly with that driver. Almost every time, I have a part in whatever circumstance that causes the desire for a discussion, and I have to own that. Sometimes people are defensive and unreceptive, sometimes they're like a split personality, sometimes they're completely clueless, but most of the time they are interested in constructive conversation if approached like a fellow competitor. Most of the time, issues can be resolved, sometimes you just agree to disagree. I have been on both ends of this equation, having done some boneheaded things in my time.

The privilege we enjoy as drivers in Conference to set the rules, a unique and special thing, comes with a responsibility to collectively enforce those rules through modelling the behavior we expect, and policing ourselves as a first option. It is unrealistic to expect the Stewards to solve all of our problems.

It's important to remember that auto racing is most definitely not a benign activity, and when you put your helmet on and go out on a hot track, whatever happens is at least half your fault. Before we go slandering someone by name on a public forum, using only our biased perspective as a framework, we would be well served to remember that we too could very easily make a mistake that costs somebody dearly.
 
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"Having witnessed one of the situations in the Group 1 race with a front row seat, I must admit I am worried for our safety"

I am going to throw a different take on the "our safety" aspect.

When Mike Tripp went into the bank at Turn 3 (flag station is way up the hill) the turn workers were ready to run. They thought he was going to reach the turn station. (in his video you can see the camera is almost level with the first step out of the station waaaay up there). He damned near reached them.

When the two BMW's flew over the curbing at Turn 5, they were coming straight at the turn station.

The turn workers/Safety crews don't have protective gear.

Some of us (depending which turn) don't even have a damned place to run to for safety. When it reaches the point, where our turn personell cannot be safe, we have a problem.

Our Stewards have been put through the ringer these first 2 race weekends.

Maybe each race group needs to have their own meeting and discuss this issue. I know that may not be practical in reality, but there are emails that can be exchanged with each other.

Our turn workers need protection too. We still haven't seen everything a race car can do, and although we try to cover off all possibilities we can't.

I know our drivers out there would never want to put us in harm's way, but things are getting a little out of hand.

Lynn Rimmer
ICSCC ROD Director
 
I am one of the many drivers that blew the second round of yellows in Race 1 (though I was behind Mark and not in the famous video). Once I realized my mistake, I quickly waved the four cars that I passed back around me before turn 5. After the race, I found the stewards and took my lumps. I was racing too hard and not paying enough attention.

I do have a suggestion, though. A waving flag is much easier to see than a static one. Should we start all full-course cautions with waving yellows until the field is controlled and gathered? It would sure help bone-heads like me.

What do you guys think?
 
Randy Blaylock said:
"Insidious influence of NASCAR" seriously?
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Yes; monkey see, monkey do. The fact is that too many drivers in the closed-wheel classes are perfectly willing to cause crashes, and the brand of motorsports most often seen on TV is NASCAR, where such crashes are at least tolerated, and probably encouraged.

When I have an issue with another driver, I try to cool off and then have a private discussion about my concerns directly with that driver. Almost every time, I have a part in whatever circumstance that causes the desire for a discussion, and I have to own that. Sometimes people are defensive and unreceptive, sometimes they're like a split personality, sometimes they're completely clueless, but most of the time they are interested in constructive conversation if approached like a fellow competitor. Most of the time, issues can be resolved, sometimes you just agree to disagree. I have been on both ends of this equation, having done some boneheaded things in my time.
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I agree with this, but what I saw on that video with the #70 RX-7 isn't something that mere talking between drivers is sufficient. And I did talk with the guy who punted me; he insisted that it was my fault. Fortunately, I had video, and the course workers filed a report.

The privilege we enjoy as drivers in Conference to set the rules, a unique and special thing, comes with a responsibility to collectively enforce those rules through modelling the behavior we expect, and policing ourselves as a first option. It is unrealistic to expect the Stewards to solve all of our problems.
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Agreed again. But there are times when only the stewards can solve problems, and a lot of them came up on Sunday. And do keep in mind that, whether or not we file protests (I didn't), the stewards have to deal with written reports from turn workers, who wore out a few pens this weekend with all the bone-headed driving.

It's important to remember that auto racing is most definitely not a benign activity, and when you put your helmet on and go out on a hot track, whatever happens is at least half your fault.
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I absolutely cannot agree with this assertion.

Before we go slandering someone by name on a public forum
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It's only "slander" if it's untrue. If you're referring to some of us calling for the head on #70, I make no apology. That video is utterly conclusive that he doesn't belong on a race track.

using only our biased perspective as a framework
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No bias at all; I have no idea who that guy is, and I had no opinion of him one way or the other before seeing that video. Conclusive evidence that someone needs to be severely whacked isn't "bias."

we would be well served to remember that we too could very easily make a mistake that costs somebody dearly.
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Sure, and I would hope that if I do that, I would own up to it and take my just lumps. The mere fact that we all make mistakes doesn't mean that depraved driving like #70 exhibited out there should be ignored, or merely wrist-slapped. I don't want to be on the track with people like that. If he's out there, I'm not.
 
richard_cabe said:
I do have a suggestion, though. A waving flag is much easier to see than a static one. Should we start all full-course cautions with waving yellows until the field is controlled and gathered? It would sure help bone-heads like me.

What do you guys think?
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I agree completely with this. If you're engaged in very close racing, with cars all around you, it's very easy to miss a standing yellow (especially at turn 6 or 8). A waving flag is always a good idea when there's a real need to slow down and get full control, for the simple reason that it's far more likely to be seen by all.
 
OK, I have to jump in here and make some points with an initial waving for a full course yellow.

The waving yellow is for something on the track- car or worker- and needs the driver's immediate attention. The waving or single standing yellow is what differentiates what is going on at THAT turn from the rest of the double yellows.

The double yellows are so big that they shouldn't be missed (2 flags that measure 24"w X 30" long each = 48" X 30"). That is almost half a sheet of plywood in bright yellow.

We need to keep a seperation for clarity: Double yellows = Pace Car is being dispatched or is on Course.

Single (waving or standing) = This is where the incident is.

If we went full course waving yellow and then full course double yellow absolute mayhem would occur........ guaranteed.

I am all for input from the drivers if we can build a better mouse trap. Heck I encourage it. The number one reason that the ROD will put forward rule changes for flags is 1) INCREASE SAFETY 2) MORE CLARITY FOR THE DRIVERS.
(you guys have about 5 seconds to register what we are telling you as you fly by the station.)

Any flagged WAVED needs immediate attention and that's why we use both the standing and waving. (NO WAVING SURFACE..that's bad)

Do any of the driver know that if they see a waving yellow on the pace lap of a race, that it means someone has pulled off/spun off etc. The turn with the car drops their double yellow and goes to a waving. Again to differentiate the difference.

IRDC's flags measure 30" X 30" (that's over 6 square feet per flag) Can't get any bigger than that and still have one person able to use it.

But, keep ideas and suggestions coming. If there is room for improvement without jeopardizing safety or clarity the ROD would like to help.
 
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