Really?

"The problem, at least as I see it, is that "Conference" (the corporate entity) is really just a leadership shell on top of 5 Member Clubs. While Conference leadership is there to help organize things, it's really the Clubs that are "in charge."

Not sure what part of that you recognize as a problem, but the statement is, and has been essentially correct since the inception of this conference of sports car clubs, however international.

This is the perspective that I often go on about. We are individual member/participants belonging to one, or more of the clubs that make up the conference, not members of conference that create the clubs (like SCCA div, or reg). These clubs have associated themselves through the desires of those member controlled Board of Directors with other like-minded/vocation clubs to form this body called ICSCC. The clubs do not BELONG to ICSCC so much as ICSCC belongs to the combination of its member clubs.

Also, at the ICSCC Exec. Board level, and through those club representatives to that board, there is only ONE vote per club. As opposed to the individual clubs' weight of licensed drivers.

Of course others' perspective may vary... merely an observance.
 
What's been going on is an all out effort by Conference, NWMS and the county to get this done for us. The E-board really doesn't have time to post daily reports, nor should they have to. They were elected to do a job that is often difficult, and they do their best. Last I heard it was 95% done, and will be official tomorrow the 2nd.
Liabilities and insurance come to play with track certification, so doing your due diligence as they have for 6+ weeks now takes tons of time, (unpaid time by the way). So be patient and let them do their work.
 
Ken Killam said:
"The problem, at least as I see it, is that "Conference" (the corporate entity) is really just a leadership shell on top of 5 Member Clubs. While Conference leadership is there to help organize things, it's really the Clubs that are "in charge."

Not sure what part of that you recognize as a problem, but the statement is, and has been essentially correct since the inception of this conference of sports car clubs, however international.
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Right. When I said "problem" I only meant it in terms of "Why hasn't Someone in Charge told us what's going on here?" Didn't mean to imply the corporate organization of ICSCC was a bad thing.
 
westipton said:
What's been going on is an all out effort by Conference, NWMS and the county to get this done for us. The E-board really doesn't have time to post daily reports, nor should they have to. They were elected to do a job that is often difficult, and they do their best. Last I heard it was 95% done, and will be official tomorrow the 2nd.
Liabilities and insurance come to play with track certification, so doing your due diligence as they have for 6+ weeks now takes tons of time, (unpaid time by the way). So be patient and let them do their work.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone's implying that people aren't doing their (unpaid) jobs, but the simple fact remains that we're less than two weeks away from a major undertaking (for both NWMS and anyone attending the races) and we still don't have an official decision. Even if we get an official "yes" decision tomorrow, we could still get a cancelation the week of the event. We're also two weeks past the point where we were supposed to have official word. The problem here is that nobody in an official capacity from the E-Board (board reps or whoever) has been able or willing to shed any light on what's going on, why the time for the official announcement passed without one, what remains to be done, etc.

Again, as I said in my earlier post, there might be perfectly good reasons why nobody's said anything... but nobody's officially said they can't officially say, if you catch my drift. In stark contract to some other racing organizations, ICSCC puts a lot of power in the hands of the Clubs and their members, but it's hard to wield any power (or make intelligent decisions) if you don't have all, or even much, information.
 
I know Steve, it's tough to plan without input, but in their defense the E-board is basically putting their butts on the line, legally and financially, if they were to approve this event and someone were injured or killed. Being an unpaid volunteer doesn't qualify them to be put in that kind of personal jeopardy, so moving slowly and carefully is paramount, and that extends to Kevin.
One of the issues was with the barriers going through the old paddock area. Without those in place a car coming down the back straight could conceivably reach the new section if the barriers aren't there. So I assume it was a bit of a waiting game to see when the county would get that completed. Maybe I shouldn't be commenting, but having served on the E-board for a few years I know what they are going thorugh, and it isn't easy.
 
As member of NWMS, fellow racer and just one of the many volunteers working our butts off to make this happen, I say this:

Thank you to all the fellow racers, workers and clubs for all your support! It really makes us want to work harder to make this happen! We will get it done!

Todd Stanley
Group 1,5 # 14
Group 3,6 # 21
 
It is like it is. It is like it always has been. It is like it always will be. I’m with Wes. Be patient. If it can happen it will. If it can’t it won’t. The insurance is the key.

Meaning no offence but, most of y’all haven’t been around the track enough times ;-}.
 
westipton said:
I know Steve, it's tough to plan without input, but in their defense the E-board is basically putting their butts on the line, legally and financially, if they were to approve this event and someone were injured or killed. Being an unpaid volunteer doesn't qualify them to be put in that kind of personal jeopardy, so moving slowly and carefully is paramount, and that extends to Kevin.
One of the issues was with the barriers going through the old paddock area. Without those in place a car coming down the back straight could conceivably reach the new section if the barriers aren't there. So I assume it was a bit of a waiting game to see when the county would get that completed. Maybe I shouldn't be commenting, but having served on the E-board for a few years I know what they are going thorugh, and it isn't easy.
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The issue is far less that it's taking so long as it is with how "black box" the whole thing has been. Again, nobody's expecting daily updates, but somewhere between "constant feedback" and "information black hole" there has to be a happy medium, right?
 
chip said:
It is like it is. It is like it always has been. It is like it always will be. I’m with Wes. Be patient. If it can happen it will. If it can’t it won’t. The insurance is the key.

Meaning no offence but, most of y’all haven’t been around the track enough times ;-}.
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Yea, another vote for stagnation. And we've had insurance lined up for the event for quite a few weeks already.
 
Steve Adams said:
Yea, another vote for stagnation. And we've had insurance lined up for the event for quite a few weeks already.
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And if something happens because the barriers aren't sufficient, or the run off space isn't sufficient and the E-Board approved racing at the facility without having the track certified by outside specialists, who will insure us next season? If there is a lawsuit and there is a finding of negligence against the people who made the decision to go ahead and race, will the liability end at ICSCC, or will the board members be found personally liable as well.

The board has to make decisions based on what is in the long term best interests of the organizaiton as a whole, not just the short term. If you look to the P&P it is the responsibility of the E Board members to liaise with their clubs. Have you been in contact with your E Board rep to get an update?
 
Wow - that's about enough of that. This organization is a fine group of strong people committed to, at least mostly selflessly, providing safe, entertaining, and "affordable" motorsports opportunities for it's members. Don't think for a second that I don't feel the same level of frustration as anyone among you about the lack of tranparency in some of the issues that come in front of the E-Board. I just hate for us to turn on ourselves and blow this all out of porportion. We are too strong an organization to be taken down by outside forces, lets not destroy ourselves from within.

I have long been a proponent of having someone who would act as a dedicated "press agent" for the E-Board who would comb through the info and write up a simple description of what they are handling then getting it signed off by the E-Board as a whole for distribution right here on the forum. As hard as it is to hear, there are some things that are either too sensitive or changing too quickly to post to the general membership on any quick basis, but I would definitely like to see the membership have at least a condensed version of what is going on in rather than feeling free to make up any conspiricy they can imagine which is frequently what happens.

The individual Clubs and Conference as a whole are not a true Democracy. An actual Democracy is when all decisions are put to the members as a whole for them to vote on and that would simply be impossible considering the size and diversity of the group as well as the time required to accomplish such things. We try to be the next best thing, which is a Representative Democracy - The membership of individual Clubs elect people to represent them and then hold those people accountable for what they accomplish on their behalf. I can only speak for the IRDC, but I know the officers and E-Board reps of most of the other clubs and I am confident that it is true about them as well - they toil much harder than you think they do to try and give you what you want all while doing their best to keep any personal agendas out of their decisions.

Using IRDC as an example - Bruce Boyd is IRDC's outstanding E-Board rep. He has an impressive history of selfless service to the Club and has always demonstrated a logical and selfless dedication to serving the MEMBERSHIP of the IRDC. He has been in contact MULTIPLE times a day with the officers and advisors of the IRDC as well as working diligently with the other club E-Board reps. The officers and advisors have been in CONSTANT communication with the members of the club who are calling for information about the current process and how it affects their plans so they can advise and direct the E-Board on how to best represent the membership. In the end the MEMBERSHIP will hold us accountable if we act in a fashion that is not in their best interest.

A caveat here - anyone who does not get involved in the operation of their club and especially thoise who haven't cast a vote for their club officers has no business complaining about VOLUNTEERS who are busting their butts to try to give you what they think you want. A small number of dedicated and hard working "little red hens" are growing the wheat, milling the flour, and baking the bread and yet are still willing to let you eat it becasue they love bread and just hate the idea of you going hungry. If you are not helping make that bread in any way, then complaining about how thick it is sliced while you eat it is just bad manners.

The clubs and the E-Board are working very hard on this for the membership. This is a particularly difficult situation because it appears that it may have become too personal for a few involved that have track records for giving some really great and selfless service to ICSCC in the past. It's unfortunate, but we are all human so trust that they are working through it as quickly as possible and hope to resolve the situation soon. If you need input, don't call your E-Board rep as they are swamped and working to achieve the directives discussed with the officers of the individual clubs. Call your club officers - it's our job to act in your best interest and in the end we are accountable to you. We listen to the input from the club members , give them as much info about what is going on as it is appropriate to give, and use that info to advise the E-Board rep on how the membership wants them to vote. Even better - next time the opportunity comes up get involved and become a club board member, officer or chairperson. Always better to help make good decisions than to stand back and ***** about the bad ones.

Get signed up for Spokane! Assume it is going to happen. If something unforseen happens and it has to be cancelled, then so be it. We could have that happen at ANY venue - wind, power outages, floods, deteriorating surfaces, ice, fog ..etc. The E-Board knows you want a race at Spokane and they are doing their best to make that happen.
 
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db1 said:
And if something happens because the barriers aren't sufficient, or the run off space isn't sufficient and the E-Board approved racing at the facility without having the track certified by outside specialists, who will insure us next season? If there is a lawsuit and there is a finding of negligence against the people who made the decision to go ahead and race, will the liability end at ICSCC, or will the board members be found personally liable as well.

The board has to make decisions based on what is in the long term best interests of the organizaiton as a whole, not just the short term. If you look to the P&P it is the responsibility of the E Board members to liaise with their clubs. Have you been in contact with your E Board rep to get an update?
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I'm NOT saying the E-Board is taking too long to make a decision. I know we've already had approval from our insurance provider, but I also know the P&Ps say Conference will NOT certify any track, and so NWMS needs to find an "expert" (track engineer, SCCA consultant, whatever) to certify the track meets industry guidelines, etc.

What I AM saying is that, in this day and age, when most communication is instant, when there are other organizations looking for our racing dollar, it is UNACCEPTABLE that so many people are kept in the dark for so long about a decision that affects them. Again, I'm NOT saying there needs to be daily updates about what's going on, I'm NOT saying we need to air any dirty laundry in public fora, I'm NOT saying we need all the details... but having essentially no communication from anyone "official" about the status of things, what needs to be done to achieve additional progress, and so on, is just poor customer service.

(And, yes, I've spoken to my E-Board rep, the ICSCC President, the insurance advisor, NWMS' E-Board rep, members of NWMS...)
 
A few other points: I'm signed up for 2 races for each of the 3 days. I've got a hotel that I can cancel. I have every confidence the races will go off, based on what I've heard from NWMS. Other than missing the races, I'm not terribly affected either way the decision goes. I've been in communication with lots of people around the decicision and feel like I know all the big factors in the decision.

In other words, I'm not complaining that I don't know what's going on or that I've been kept in the dark. I would, however, like to see more communication to the membership as a whole. And, returning to my poorly-worded "the problem with Conference" post, above, the entity of "Conference" is currently rather limited in what it can do in situations like this, as it's the Member Clubs that are really "in charge" of Conference. We are, by nature of being a confederation of clubs, a decentralized organization in a lot of ways.

Rick's idea of a Conference person who can centralize ICSCC-wide communications by getting sign-off from the Club E-Board reps is a brilliant idea. It's a "push" model rather than the "call your E-Board rep or Club official" pull model we use now.
 
A big thank you needs to go out to Bruce, Bob, Scott, Dane and Ray for their hard work on this deal. Everyone else on the board including Kevin deserves kudos for their efforts as well, which were difficult and time consuming to say the least.
 
REALLY! We going. Rooms reserved, truck gassed, satchels packed, we going. Besides, i finally talked DW into going, so we will be arriving in full Dodge Battle Armor. Be prepared...
 
hmmm, this all seems to remind of of 2009 when another "2nd tier member club" tried to hold a race....lots of politics, lots of narrow shoulders, and weak knees. Maybe one day when racing costs $500 a weekend and we have the turn out of SCCA we might get a clue.
 
Seems to me that almost any week-end costs us more than $500.00 these days, and the turn-out far exceeds anything SCCA has seen in over 20 years.
Last year was ORP, and it was handled slowly and properly in spite of the protests to the contrary. As we have said before, numerous times, no race until certification. No cert, no race, and in the case of ORP it was defintely the right decison by the Conference E-board.
 
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