It looks like sombody get it!

From a volunter/worker side....Lots of good discussion here. NOW for the volunter/worker side,,,we come out to 'race' by helping you the driver be safe and have fun while YOU drive a car. WE stand on our feet in rain, wind, sun, snow so you can drive, mostly with NO shade or umbrella.

Over the last x # of event weekends, how many of you, the drivers, come by the volunter/worker morning meetings and taken a good look at a) HOW MANY OF US THERE ARE AND B) THE AVERAGE AGE.

I would say not more then two or three of you.

Volunter/worker ranks are going south just like the number of enterys because of lots of reasons. Average age this last 4 weekends, 45-50.

As Lynn said, there are a lot of us that have put a lots of miles this last 6-8 weekends in a order to make 'racing' safe and fun for not only ICSCC but SOVREN and SCCA and SCCBC as well.

About a 1/3 of the volunter/worker this last two events have worked a track at least 3 times in the last 8 weeks and will work at least 3 more over the next 5 weeks. I know of at least 6 (plus myself) that have been at a track every weekend for the last 6 weeks. And I have 3 more to go.

So, this discussion can help EVERYONE with fewer weekends and hopfully not back to back, then this is all a good thing.

LETS MOVE IT FORWARD
 
And while you're at it reduce/fold together the number of classes to 5 per group max, then suddenly a lot more people are racing for a Championship, against each other.
 
I'd say one novice race per week-end, which is plenty. Full points for each race each week-end, and drop maybe 2 races from the total, depending of course on the total races we end up with for a season.
DT's and the like are very important obviously but need to be kept seperate from race week-ends since they two distinct entities.
 
We don't need to reinvent the wheel here to make a shift to fewer weekends. In fact, trying to change everything at once is a sure recipe for achieving nothing. Need to adhere to the KISS principle.

Regarding what changes would be required to facilitate a shift to fewer weekends where member clubs would have the option of single or multiple races, there really aren't that many.

There has been a double race run over two days, in 2010 by SCCBC. This double race weekend was held over two days, and met the requirements of the Comp regs and P/P for championship race events AND the Novice program, with one small adjustment that was negotiated and found to be agreeable by the Conference E-Board.

This adjustment was the foregoing of the practice session for Novices on the second day. The rationale for this adjustment was that Novices will have already had a practice and qualifying session, and a race on the previous day, so the normal training justification requiring the practice session was met by the experience and track time of the previous day. The one potential negative of this compromise was that I made the decision as the License Director at the time that Novices would not be permitted to enter the second day's events without having taken part in the prior day's practice and qualifying sessions. In order to be eligible to run the second day's program, a Novice would have had to run the first day's events. In theory this was not a problem, and in practice it was a complete non-issue.

I am a huge proponent of our Novice Program. I committed two years of my life and gladly accepted the compromises required by my own racing program to be involved as License Director. I do strongly believe and assert that whatever direction we choose to go, the Novice program must not be degraded. With very slight adjustments, it has been proven that this isn't an issue.

As far as the regular format of a typical race schedule, simplicity suggests that if we have the appetite for it, For Senior racers simply eliminate the requirement for the practice session and two qualifying sessions, and make the requirement only a single qualifying session prior to a regular championship points race, per day. Keep the practice and qualifying sessions for the Novices. For Senior racers, each race is a full points race. This would facilitate the shift to fewer weekends with a continued strong Novice program, as long as people can live without the practice session.

The money question doesn't have to be hugely complicated either. If there is a driver levy charged per race, then simply add that amount to the regular second, third, whatever race entry price. I suspect people would not complain, knowing that the slight increase is nothing compared to the money saved by eliminating the expenses of a completely separate race event. Or don't, knowing that the club has only incurred one race event worth of expenses, and multiple race entry revenues, plus a likely reduction in the syndicated insurance premium.

Sure there are some unanswered questions and some basic unknowns. I don't necessarily agree that every last detail needs to be worked out before submitting the proposal. It's more of a "this is the direction we believe we need to move for the fundamental health and success of our Conference and all that entails", and the details can be worked out and solved over the off season.

Yes, it's opportunistic, but still a valid point. Here is a copy/paste from Steve Hocaluk regarding the upcoming SCCBC race. This is serious stuff, and needs to be taken seriously by those of us that may not appreciate, or simply be aware of what it takes to actually put on a race weekend. Fewer weekends means concentration and focusing of resources, lessening of the workload of volunteers, officials and workers. We can get in front of this and drive it, or be driven by it when races get cancelled for a number of reasons. It has already happened once this year to SCCA, don't think it can't happen to us.

"HELP!! We are in desperate need of turn marshals for our upcoming race weekend. No experience necessary, we train you how to flag, on the job. If you want to get as close to racing as you can without being behind the wheel, you'll love this! We feed you too!

If you can help, please let me know ASAP.

Please share this post with everyone you can.

Thanks!"
 
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That might be the best post Randy's ever made, especially:
  • We don't need to thrash out every detail now, just get the big pieces solved.
  • We simply canNOT compromise the Novice program. It's one of the best pieces of the ICSCC experience.
  • Drivers want more racing time and volunteers need more downtime between our events to recuperate and/or work with other series.

And the best item of all: We can be proactive about this in an organized way or get pushed around by the changing realities of volunteer time and individual cash flow.
 
Randy Blaylock said:
We don't need to reinvent the wheel here to make a shift to fewer weekends. In fact, trying to change everything at once is a sure recipe for achieving nothing. Need to adhere to the KISS principle.

Regarding what changes would be required to facilitate a shift to fewer weekends where member clubs would have the option of single or multiple races, there really aren't that many.

There has been a double race run over two days, in 2010 by SCCBC. This double race weekend was held over two days, and met the requirements of the Comp regs and P/P for championship race events AND the Novice program, with one small adjustment that was negotiated and found to be agreeable by the Conference E-Board.

This adjustment was the foregoing of the practice session for Novices on the second day. The rationale for this adjustment was that Novices will have already had a practice and qualifying session, and a race on the previous day, so the normal training justification requiring the practice session was met by the experience and track time of the previous day. The one potential negative of this compromise was that I made the decision as the License Director at the time that Novices would not be permitted to enter the second day's events without having taken part in the prior day's practice and qualifying sessions. In order to be eligible to run the second day's program, a Novice would have had to run the first day's events. In theory this was not a problem, and in practice it was a complete non-issue.

I am a huge proponent of our Novice Program. I committed two years of my life and gladly accepted the compromises required by my own racing program to be involved as License Director. I do strongly believe and assert that whatever direction we choose to go, the Novice program must not be degraded. With very slight adjustments, it has been proven that this isn't an issue.

As far as the regular format of a typical race schedule, simplicity suggests that if we have the appetite for it, For Senior racers simply eliminate the requirement for the practice session and two qualifying sessions, and make the requirement only a single qualifying session prior to a regular championship points race, per day. Keep the practice and qualifying sessions for the Novices. For Senior racers, each race is a full points race. This would facilitate the shift to fewer weekends with a continued strong Novice program, as long as people can live without the practice session.

The money question doesn't have to be hugely complicated either. If there is a driver levy charged per race, then simply add that amount to the regular second, third, whatever race entry price. I suspect people would not complain, knowing that the slight increase is nothing compared to the money saved by eliminating the expenses of a completely separate race event. Or don't, knowing that the club has only incurred one race event worth of expenses, and multiple race entry revenues, plus a likely reduction in the syndicated insurance premium.

Sure there are some unanswered questions and some basic unknowns. I don't necessarily agree that every last detail needs to be worked out before submitting the proposal. It's more of a "this is the direction we believe we need to move for the fundamental health and success of our Conference and all that entails", and the details can be worked out and solved over the off season.

Yes, it's opportunistic, but still a valid point. Here is a copy/paste from Steve Hocaluk regarding the upcoming SCCBC race. This is serious stuff, and needs to be taken seriously by those of us that may not appreciate, or simply be aware of what it takes to actually put on a race weekend. Fewer weekends means concentration and focusing of resources, lessening of the workload of volunteers, officials and workers. We can get in front of this and drive it, or be driven by it when races get cancelled for a number of reasons. It has already happened once this year to SCCA, don't think it can't happen to us.

"HELP!! We are in desperate need of turn marshals for our upcoming race weekend. No experience necessary, we train you how to flag, on the job. If you want to get as close to racing as you can without being behind the wheel, you'll love this! We feed you too!

If you can help, please let me know ASAP.

Please share this post with everyone you can.

Thanks!"
Click to expand...

Mr. Blaylock, you are correct sir! All persons interested in the future of racing in the North West should read your post.
Less towing, fewer weekends and MORE racing works for everyone; volunteers, competitors and officials.
 
6 of our top turn marshalls for Mission are going to be in Baltimore this weekend.

That's staff for 3 complete turns we are short!

Please please please come help.
 
[Lynn, I drafted this while your post came up, so it's a bit repetetive.]

Here is a further message from Steve on the SCCBC forum:

As of this moment we only have 6 confirmed turn marshals for the upcoming weekend. Anyone not racing this weekend who can come out and lend a hand, please let me know ASAP.

We may also need to rotate drivers and crew from the paddock so please be prepared for that.

Thanks!

Steve​

Wow. Being one of the six, that is really scary – and I’ll only be there for Saturday and Sunday, not Monday. I’m sure a few more will turn up, but still ...

Which brings me to another point ... I am definitely NOT in favour of three day weekends, that’s too much to ask of us. I’m willing to give up the occasional weekend, but not an entire long weekend (especially when I’m leaving early the next morning for Las Vegas!)

In this instance, there are a couple of factors against us. Many of our experienced folk are going to Baltimore for the Indy race this weekend. Others have children and will be preparing them for their return to school on Tuesday.

The dwindling numbers of turn marshals is indeed a big concern. One of my flagging friends loves to tell the story of his first year, which coincided with Spokane’s first year – and where there were very few cornerworkers. Something happened on our corner, can’t remember what, and there were only the two of us at the station, me on comm and flags, him on yellow ... he says [though I have my doubts] that as I was running from the station to the incident, I hollered at him to “just wave everything!!!” In Mission, we have the luxury of a very large e-crew, so if anything happens, we’ll be leaving it to them to clean up – which may necessitate those full course yellows you drivers hate so much. Otherwise it’ll be a black flag while we clean it up! So you need to consider that too when wanting more “racing” time!!! We can’t clean incidents up locally when there are only two of us on a station.
 
I am curious what the "fee" is for a race and why there is a difference between a "race" and an "event". I could only find that the Board sets this fee, but could not see any separation between a "race" and "event" (event being the 2 day practice/qual/qual/race format). Insurance?? Not in my mind as there are cars on track both days already.

I am not at all opposed to having a race both days and cutting down on the practice/qual. I am opposed to adding to the expense of the weekend (entry fee only - arguments can be had about haul expenses till the cows come home!!)
 
Speaking for myself, Kyle; I use "event" to encompass the whole of the weekend's activities (or micro-events). A Dbl. Race weekend would be the event. Some events are longer than others as is the configuration decided by the clubs/promoters that are presenting the events.

If that makes any sense.
 
Really should say between the current single race weekend and the idea of a 2 race each day weekend
 
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colin_koehler said:
So Bob and Tracy,

How would you approach the Novice program in lieu of a "More-race/less-tow" scenario?
Click to expand...

As Randy and Eric pointed out in the meantime, the Mission 2-day double in 2010 is a good model for how to accommodate the Novice program, at least NCW. For that matter, the day 2 schedule of our current 3-day double events allows for a complete NCW day with 3 sessions as well as qualifying and race for the senior run groups. Adopt that schedule for every day of an event and you have what people seem to want, while maintaining the integrity of the Novice program.

NOW is another matter, as they run the group 6 schedule. Depending on which model we theoretically adopt we could be shortchanging NOW drivers of valuable driver development time if their Novice events are just a qual and a race. Not sure what the right answer is there, as I wouldn't want to require that NOW drivers run a higher minimum number of novice races than NCW drivers. This might be an argument in favor of running senior run group practice sessions, as well as qual and race, on the first day of an event.
 
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As an Open Wheel guy the opportunities for NOW to get track time is VERY limited compared to NCW (where lapping days are an option, not so much for open wheel cars). I really do not want to short change any opportunity for valuable "seat time" for the NOW drivers!
 
Our novices are looking at usually 3 races for an upgrade right Bob? Is it really an issue that they may not get as much track time over those 3 week-ends compared to the rest of their racing career? I'd say if a slight change in novice format, (eventually, if needed), that benefits the majority is probably not an actual negative.
I'm sure we can produce a schedule that would not cost them much time, but like Steve said, let's solve the big picture and fill in the blanks later.
 
"Big picture" is itemizing the rules that will have to be considered for change in the Regs to accomodate ANY modification of the current format including the Novice sessions/race. There really aren't that many, but the present mandates would need to become less restrictive, or simply worded with enough flexibility to let a Steward/Race Chairman design a schedule without the complication of a tax form.

A thread in a different section of the forum perhaps.
 
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