Enduro???

GTM Racer said:
I have played all my experience and knowledge from a participants point of view as well as a business perspective along with stats from other industry crisis that parallel with this current discussion. I have delivered the following:

Market / advertising
stereotype busters
seminars / 30 minute demonstration at each event on both days.
Pit assistant program for new comers.
pre trial discount opportunity to fill the field
Look at leaniancy of licensing exclusive to endurance racing only
Brochures on "How to win at endurance racing" the dos and don't's. ( the booth idea is someone else)
How to get quality seat time at half the cost.
build a winning endurance team for less than the cost of a season of sprint racing
Rules and classes that don't break the entry level "buy in"
Offered suggestions on building a competitive endrance car for less than 5k including support.
Identify your goal and re invent the club not re invent the wheel.
For those that are interested that can't pull the trigger: have a list of credible shops that can do all or part of the prep work.

I am not a member here but am passionate about endurance racing and some day return to the North to win some races from you guys!
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Anyone know if any members of Cascade's leadership are following this thread? This list seems like a great starting point for some more brainstorming, but it's a little wasted if none of the people who can make things happen for the enduro are following it.
 
mikecolangelo said:
Maybe I'm an example of your target audience?

I participate in the ICSCC/SCCA sprint races because I get a huge thrill out of driving my car at the limit (probably my limit more than my car's limit) for 30 minutes. I appreciate the high caliber of drivers found in Conference and the SCCA. Racing with them helps me improve as a driver.

Honestly, driving in a Conference enduro race really doesn't appeal me. If I'm going to drive in an endurance race, I'll do it for the social and entertainment aspects more than anything else. That's why I really want to do more crapcan races this year. Lemons, ChumpCar, etc. all offer that and over the course of a weekend. Plus, they tend to be more casual and most teams don't take it too seriously.

For me, at least, it's not about the Conference enduro entry fees. I think they're reasonable. It's other things as I mentioned above.

So, my motorsorts plan for 2012 is to race in Conference sprint races and at least a couple Lemons, ChumpCar, RollX-16, etc. crapcan endurance races.

Just my $0.02 (US). ;-)
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So Mike...if you already possess a car which could slip into an existing class within the Cascade Enduro for instance, why then would you PREFER to build another car for a Chump/Lemons race? Now if you have neither car, it is certainly cheaper to build a crap can racer than a sprint race car.

Also, I just received an email this morning indicating that SCCA Oregon has established a new class - IT-J for Chump/Lemons cars. So I guess that Crown Vic frequently mentioned above now has a place to run within the SCCA community, at least. Now will Conference follow suit. The cars must pass SCCA tech but their is some licensing leeway I think,


Bill-
 
Bill Bonsell said:
So Mike...if you already possess a car which could slip into an existing class within the Cascade Enduro for instance, why then would you PREFER to build another car for a Chump/Lemons race? Now if you have neither car, it is certainly cheaper to build a crap can racer than a sprint race car.

Bill-
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Who said I was building another car? I was hoping to join a team.
 
Bill Bonsell said:
it is certainly cheaper to build a crap can racer than a sprint race car.
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Mid-pack sprint car or front running sprint car? I think a mid-pack ITA car can be had for the same money as a Chump Car, easily... but a front running ITA car can easily be had for only a few thousand more.


Example of one for only $6k and it's fully prepped (engine, trans, susp) and it comes with a boatload of spares. That's running up front in ITA for CHEAP.
http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=35800&highlight=ITA

There's also one for sale locally as well.

It's a moot point however since ITA sprint racing and ChumpCar endurance racing are 2 very different forms of motorsport so one has to ask himself what he wants to do. I'm just re-emphasizing my point that Club Racing isn't always as expensive as it's made out to be and ChumpCar isn't as cheap as it's made to be. What's closed that delta is the price of safety.
 
good call clarifying Chumpcar vs sprint car in cost! Unfortunately, it is only the same 6 people on this thread that give a crap and want to make something happen. I see some good stuff here so why dosn't any one take the effort and get something going. People do need to know in advance to how they are going to plan their race season. As the economy thightens and continues into uncertainy, so goes the racing dollar. This will leave many chosing their favorite track and parking the cars reducing revenue.
 
vonrace said:
good call clarifying Chumpcar vs sprint car in cost! Unfortunately, it is only the same 6 people on this thread that give a crap and want to make something happen. I see some good stuff here so why dosn't any one take the effort and get something going. People do need to know in advance to how they are going to plan their race season. As the economy thightens and continues into uncertainy, so goes the racing dollar. This will leave many chosing their favorite track and parking the cars reducing revenue.
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I sent an email to the race director of Cascade asking him to look at this thread as there have been some good points brought up as a way to increase endurance race entries and the 8 Hours of the Cascade specifically. I'll see if he replies to me or jumps into this forum at some point with his views.

Bill-
 
Thanks Bill but the Enduro is not done by the Race Director. Dont worry though, I assure you we will be discusing many of the ideas brought up here and many more.

I appreciate every ones input.
 
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I've never been a big fan of the enduro classes Cascade has used, but that hasn't stopped me from entering and enjoying the event. But based on some comments in this thread it must bother some people enough not to comeback (and maybe to never come).

I think NASA has a good model for enduro classing. Allow for a single unlimited class where enduro freaks and people with too much money can get their kicks but everything else is effectively the "limited classes". The way the limited classes were introduced in conference enduros made it seem second hand or an after thought. At least that was my impression. The limited class should be the class, drop the limited name. That may piss off some people with small enduro spec'd cars, but that has to be a pretty small number of cars right?

Breaking the classes purely on displacement is simple but is it really the fairest way to do it? Why not map regular classes to enduro classes like NASA does? It can't be that hard.

There should be fewer classes, eliminate the need (or even the possibility) for enduro specific cars for most classes, still have a place for those that want to go all out.

To be unique (at least in club enduros) why not do the Cascade 1000k? 1000KM is a classic enduro distance. I think that is like 316 laps of PIR. It should take around 7.5-8 hours based on past results. Have a time limit of 10 hours in case it is a monsoon day. Having a race based on distance instead of time would be different around here.

Keep the LeMans start. It is a bit silly but being unique and out of the ordinary helps differinitate the event from anything else.

Thats my take.
 
Thanks Eric. I like some of your ideas.

Bill,, shouldn't this plug be under a different heading? I wish Star Projects the best with their events though:D
 
I almost ran the 8 hours at the end of last year.
Issues with that were:
-- I'm a tall dude and had to customize my car to fit. What else do I fit into? Pro3 car with adjustable seats spring to mind.
-- There are other Pro-7 cars I do fit into, but do we use their cars, mine or ??
-- It wears out the components of the cars, so we're back to whose car? How do you quantify a bad snchro at the end of the event?
-- I do sprint racing as a pay as you go. For psychological reasons I don't fully understand there is the cost threshold per event that I find
hard to overcome. I know it's the same cost as 2 or more events, but you're buying in all at once, rather than a month or so apart.
I think it's weird too ...
-- Loss of control. If it's my car, my sprint event, my gas -- I control it all.
When playing with others and splitting up the tasks (who buys the tires?) it gets into the control issue.
-- Lastly there is the unknown. Exactly how do you drive in an endurance race? Are the first laps real fast to get position and then you back off
to 95%? Maybe another sprint at the finish? There is little information on the specifics of how you drive a race like this. Maybe if we knew
more we might get more excited.
 
Bill---
I think you would enjoy the enduro. Notwithstanding the issue you might have because of height, everything is pretty easy. Get your list of needed items and put your team together. In the 2 enduros I ran in 2011, my co-drivers essentially covered the entry fee and each brought their share of the fuel which we were to consume. I prepped the car with new fluids, pads, etc and from the April Enduro ran pretty much the same pads until Labor Day at Mission. I really didn't think much about the wear and tear....hell I race a Miata. We dialed the shift light back about 600rpm and everyone thought we were driving at about 90% ot thereabouts. Finishing is the most important and we did take 2nd in class at both events. I used up a set of rains in April but one of my co-drivers sponsor supplied a set of slicks for the 8 hours. As mentioned several times here in this long thread, I think their is a bit of misconception about the overall costs and logistics of endurance racing...at least as far as it is presented within Conference. I would imagine a 25 hours event would be significantly more difficult to manage, etc., but both the 4 and 8 I was involved in, went off pretty much without a hitch and I would be glad to share my experiences in more detail with you if you'd like.

Bill
 
"The good news: Drivers that come to racing by this door (Re: Chump, Lemons, Rats, etc.) soon figure out that the cheapest way to go faster is to learn to drive better. That is good for our schools (Re: Collectively ICSCC clubs, and others). The second good thing is many of these guys have expressed an interest in trying Conference racing."-- Bill Murray

I tend to agree with that statement, it's a simple logic, so I re-iterate with no commercial intent. More seat time equals better skills development, and isn't practice less expensive than spending the untold $$ on engine and drive train, especially for the amateur non-sponsored novice type?

Besides, most race cars can already go faster than their pilots anyway.

Worker's Revenge 2010.jpg

I'd bet dimes to donuts that would even apply to IT-Jalopy.​
 
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Ken Killam said:
"The good news: Drivers that come to racing by this door (Re: Chump, Lemons, Rats, etc.) soon figure out that the cheapest way to go faster is to learn to drive better. That is good for our schools (Re: Collectively ICSCC clubs, and others). The second good thing is many of these guys have expressed an interest in trying Conference racing."-- Bill Murray

I tend to agree with that statement, it's a simple logic, so I re-iterate with no commercial intent. More seat time equals better skills development, and isn't practice less expensive than spending the untold $$ on engine and drive train, especially for the amateur non-sponsored novice type?

Besides, most race cars can already go faster than their pilots anyway.

View attachment 868

I'd bet dimes to donuts that would even apply to IT-Jalopy.​
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You guys just don't get it, do you? ChumpCar has 5 events in the PacNorWest for 2012... a total of 88 hours on-track. With 4 drivers per team, that's an average 22 hours of racing for a season. At 90-100 minutes of track time per event in club racing, that would mean a club would need to hold 13-15 events a year. So, who's getting more track time? Perhaps it should be -- when YOU'RE ready to sharpen YOUR skills, come and drive with us. ;-)
 
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