slowkeeper
Member
NWMS will have a Test n' Tune on July 14 to play on the re-aligned tract. Details will be available on Motorsport.reg.
2011 ICSCC schedule posted
- Thread starter Steve Adams
- Start date
tony_hauser
Ciao!
Eric, looking forward to the upcoming season. Talked to Greg Scott (Ball) and it sounds like he's planning on doing all his racing with the 944cup group this year. I know one of the TC races at ORP conflicts with the 944cup group, but I'll probably be doing the same thing as Greg. I hope the 944cup group trends more and more towards running with Conference than SCCA as I will have more opportunity to run with the Group 2 folks as well as ITS. I'm really looking forward to the German Car Challenge! Who knows, the way 944 cup is growing, we might end up like the Pro3's!
slowkeeper
Member
NWMS will have a Test n' Tune on July 14 prior to our 3 race weekend. Plan on spending some time o n the newly re-aligned track. Details will be available on Motorsport.reg
Frank DiMiceli
IRDC Race Chairman
ATTENTION ALL ENDURO RACERS - Watch for the IRDC 4-Hour Enduro Announcement posted on our Conference website within the next week. First entry after posting of announcement gets pole and early entries will be starting up front.
Steve Adams
Just this guy, ya know?
The ICSCC-sanctioned NWMS and SCCBC TnTs have been added to the schedule.
lee_fjellanger
Well-known member
Please confirm what I'm reading.
Just to make sure that I am reading the printed
schedule correctly, can someone confirm:
#1 The May 28 - 30 2 races at ORP,
Sat. is normal practice and 1 qual.
Sunday is qual and in PM a race.
Monday is qual and in PM a race.
#2 The July 15-17 3 races at Spokane,
Friday has a qual. then a race.
Saturday has a qual. then a race.
Sunday has a qual. then a race.
#3 The September 3 - 5 2 races at Mission,
Sat. is normal practice and 1 qual.
Sunday is qual and in PM a race.
Monday is qual and in PM a race.
(In other words, if I recall correctly at Mission last
year we did 2 races in just a 2 day schedule & most
spoke kindly about it, but this year we are not doing
that there!?)
I'm fine with whatever - just wanting to make sure
I understand.
Just to make sure that I am reading the printed
schedule correctly, can someone confirm:
#1 The May 28 - 30 2 races at ORP,
Sat. is normal practice and 1 qual.
Sunday is qual and in PM a race.
Monday is qual and in PM a race.
#2 The July 15-17 3 races at Spokane,
Friday has a qual. then a race.
Saturday has a qual. then a race.
Sunday has a qual. then a race.
#3 The September 3 - 5 2 races at Mission,
Sat. is normal practice and 1 qual.
Sunday is qual and in PM a race.
Monday is qual and in PM a race.
(In other words, if I recall correctly at Mission last
year we did 2 races in just a 2 day schedule & most
spoke kindly about it, but this year we are not doing
that there!?)
I'm fine with whatever - just wanting to make sure
I understand.
Steve Adams
Just this guy, ya know?
You're correct on dates and locations. As to what the event schedules will be, you'll either have to wait until they come out or hope someone who actually knows (as opposed to speculation) posts an answer. 
We had planned on having 2 conference races at mission this year, One a 2 day 2 race weekend , like last year, and a 2 race three day weekend. With conference agreeing to three championship races per track we changed the 2 day weekend to a single championship race. Perhaps in the future the conference championship format will change again and we can have the 2 race 2 day again.There will be practice days on friday for both weekends.
R Stec
R Stec
rick_bostrom
Onda Kattan Racing
I completely understand the concern about schedule, especially at Pacific Raceways where every minute is precious.
On the other hand, what could have been a tough year for IRDC and Conference as a whole was aided greatly by the resounding success of our special race groups. Using the August IRDC Car Tender Challenge as an example, 53 cars started that special race which was more than Group 3 (20 cars), Group 4 (20 cars), and Group 6 (8 cars) COMBINED on that week-end.
Before we pick out a group as the few adversely affecting the majority, it's important to take a look at the numbers to make sure they don't tell a different story. I'm certainly just as interested in seeing ALL of our traditional race groups full and healthy as anyone. Wes and I along with a whole host of fine racing people have been diligently trying to figure out how to best serve our diverse and dynamic racing organization but like most complex problems, there is no simple answer.
I, and a lot of hard working volunteers with IRDC and the other member clubs, am constantly walking a tightrope to try to provide the kind of events our members want while keeping the club solvent and strong to serve future generations of racers. The entire "market" of local amateur racers is really quite limited and has been shrunk further by current economic conditions. It would be disasterous to lose ANY significant group, large or small, 8 or 53. Sooner or later if things continue their current trends we are going to have to make some hard decisions and we need to work together to make sure none of our racing family are left out in the cold.
On the other hand, what could have been a tough year for IRDC and Conference as a whole was aided greatly by the resounding success of our special race groups. Using the August IRDC Car Tender Challenge as an example, 53 cars started that special race which was more than Group 3 (20 cars), Group 4 (20 cars), and Group 6 (8 cars) COMBINED on that week-end.
Before we pick out a group as the few adversely affecting the majority, it's important to take a look at the numbers to make sure they don't tell a different story. I'm certainly just as interested in seeing ALL of our traditional race groups full and healthy as anyone. Wes and I along with a whole host of fine racing people have been diligently trying to figure out how to best serve our diverse and dynamic racing organization but like most complex problems, there is no simple answer.
I, and a lot of hard working volunteers with IRDC and the other member clubs, am constantly walking a tightrope to try to provide the kind of events our members want while keeping the club solvent and strong to serve future generations of racers. The entire "market" of local amateur racers is really quite limited and has been shrunk further by current economic conditions. It would be disasterous to lose ANY significant group, large or small, 8 or 53. Sooner or later if things continue their current trends we are going to have to make some hard decisions and we need to work together to make sure none of our racing family are left out in the cold.
westipton
Well-known member
My issue here Rick is the time taken away from the regular sessions and used by the these special run groups. We have less time for more money spent at PR than anywhere else, which has been discussed numerous times and is old news. Combining novice OW with G6 gave us an extra 60 minutes on Saturday, but most of that has gone to the these special races lately, so the regulars netted perhaps 5 more minutes to their week-end.
My feeling is that an adjustment should be made when time is taken from the regular competitiors and given to a special group because we are all there to race, and we all deserve adequate track time vs. dollars invested. The West Coast series at Mission has resulted in less track time on Saturdays there as well, and they aren't even a part of Conference, so there is a trend here that affects those not involved in these special races.
I have a few ideas but it is up to the club board to wrangle with this issue and come to a reasonable solution that we can all live with.
My feeling is that an adjustment should be made when time is taken from the regular competitiors and given to a special group because we are all there to race, and we all deserve adequate track time vs. dollars invested. The West Coast series at Mission has resulted in less track time on Saturdays there as well, and they aren't even a part of Conference, so there is a trend here that affects those not involved in these special races.
I have a few ideas but it is up to the club board to wrangle with this issue and come to a reasonable solution that we can all live with.
Ken Killam
Fats
No worries, Wes. It can't happen... according to the 2010 Regs at any rate.
703 F. Special and/or feature races shall not be scheduled in a manner that
interrupts the continuity of the ICSCC championship race program
within a race weekend. Special or feature races shall be the last race
of the day after all championship races are completed. During double
race weekends, a special race may be scheduled on both Sunday and
Monday. Notwithstanding the provisions above, special and/or feature
races may also be conducted on Saturday where the need arises due
to multiple special races being scheduled for the race weekend. With
the exception of ICSCC Novice races, any non-Championship race
shall be considered a special race. Championship races shall not be
shortened to facilitate special races.
703 F. Special and/or feature races shall not be scheduled in a manner that
interrupts the continuity of the ICSCC championship race program
within a race weekend. Special or feature races shall be the last race
of the day after all championship races are completed. During double
race weekends, a special race may be scheduled on both Sunday and
Monday. Notwithstanding the provisions above, special and/or feature
races may also be conducted on Saturday where the need arises due
to multiple special races being scheduled for the race weekend. With
the exception of ICSCC Novice races, any non-Championship race
shall be considered a special race. Championship races shall not be
shortened to facilitate special races.
westipton
Well-known member
I realize it doesn't affect Sundays Kenny, but it does impact our Saturdays because the special groups get to qualify and race, which us usually at least 45 minutes. That takes time away from the rest of us on that day for sure.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching those races if there is a large grid, and I'd love to be involved if I had the proper vehicle, but at a track like PR the time is short and precious enough without taking any more away from us. The club makes more money and the special group has their fun, but what do the rest of us get? You want to cut into my track time for these special events, then give me a small discount, that seems fair.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching those races if there is a large grid, and I'd love to be involved if I had the proper vehicle, but at a track like PR the time is short and precious enough without taking any more away from us. The club makes more money and the special group has their fun, but what do the rest of us get? You want to cut into my track time for these special events, then give me a small discount, that seems fair.
Ken Killam
Fats
"Special and/or feature races shall not be scheduled in a manner that
interrupts the continuity of the ICSCC championship race program
within a race weekend."
Has that been mis-interpreted?
interrupts the continuity of the ICSCC championship race program
within a race weekend."
Has that been mis-interpreted?
rick_bostrom
Onda Kattan Racing
Special races don't take any time away from ANYONE except the two or three Open Wheel Novices who would have been significantly underutilizing that time. We reschedule them in with the reasonably spacious Senior Open Wheels Groups and ask the drivers in those groups to do us a huge favor and help mentor and develop these drivers which we greatly appreciate. This frees up two 15 minute practices before and after lunch and a 30 minute race at the end of the day which can now be marketed to groups that will be much better attended and help keep the week-end in the black financially.
Usually I believe these Special Race Groups utilize ONE of the 15 minute practice/qualifying sessions and the 30 minute race slot on Saturday which actuallly leaves us with a net GAIN of 15 minutes in case there is a problem that eats up time in the regular schedule.
The time you get is unchanged and Wes, you as a long time IRDC insider should know IRDC is NOT socking money away. Without the revenue provided by the additional entries generated by the two well attended Special Race Groups IRDC would have lost money last year. Perhaps it would be more palatable to look at it as making it possible to not RAISE prices or cut non-championship race track events, or even to prolong the subsidization of underutilized groups in the hope that a little extra time will give them a chance to rebound and return to health.
Usually I believe these Special Race Groups utilize ONE of the 15 minute practice/qualifying sessions and the 30 minute race slot on Saturday which actuallly leaves us with a net GAIN of 15 minutes in case there is a problem that eats up time in the regular schedule.
The time you get is unchanged and Wes, you as a long time IRDC insider should know IRDC is NOT socking money away. Without the revenue provided by the additional entries generated by the two well attended Special Race Groups IRDC would have lost money last year. Perhaps it would be more palatable to look at it as making it possible to not RAISE prices or cut non-championship race track events, or even to prolong the subsidization of underutilized groups in the hope that a little extra time will give them a chance to rebound and return to health.
westipton
Well-known member
Uh, excuse me gentlemen, but the Saturday special groups take up time that would otherwise be used by the rest of the regular entries, whichis being conveniently overlooked. One Q session and one race rather than extra time for the folks who pay $285.00 for barely 25 minutes of track time on Saturday does make a considerable difference, unless I have totally forgotten my basic math.
You said it yourself Rick; the OW novice inclusion in G6 opens up a 15 minute practice/qualifying and a 30 minute race for the special group. That means 45 minutes of time allocated to a group outside the normal 6 Conference groups. So if they weren't included then the rest of us would have another 7 or 8 minutes per group of track time for our $$. At approx. $4.00 per minute, we're each losing around $30.00 on Saturday.
I know how much money is in the IRDC coffers, even after the 50% to PR was paid last fall, and it is more than I've seen in 35+ years as a member of that club, so the argument of the special groups making or breaking a race week-end just does not fly.
I'm all for variety and diversity, but money is tight and every buck counts now more than ever. I ask humbly that you and the club board consider all alternatives prior to the first race of this season.
I do not appreciate or accept the premise that underutilized groups be dangled out there as a bargaining chip. We all pay the same dollar per minute, regardless of how many cars are on track, so this continuing debate over groups 3 & 6 is quite irritating to me at this point.
I am offering my thoughts as a long standing and concerned member of Conference, and none of my comments or opinions are directed at anyone in particular. Use it as you see fit, or disregard it, either way works for me.
You said it yourself Rick; the OW novice inclusion in G6 opens up a 15 minute practice/qualifying and a 30 minute race for the special group. That means 45 minutes of time allocated to a group outside the normal 6 Conference groups. So if they weren't included then the rest of us would have another 7 or 8 minutes per group of track time for our $$. At approx. $4.00 per minute, we're each losing around $30.00 on Saturday.
I know how much money is in the IRDC coffers, even after the 50% to PR was paid last fall, and it is more than I've seen in 35+ years as a member of that club, so the argument of the special groups making or breaking a race week-end just does not fly.
I'm all for variety and diversity, but money is tight and every buck counts now more than ever. I ask humbly that you and the club board consider all alternatives prior to the first race of this season.
I do not appreciate or accept the premise that underutilized groups be dangled out there as a bargaining chip. We all pay the same dollar per minute, regardless of how many cars are on track, so this continuing debate over groups 3 & 6 is quite irritating to me at this point.
I am offering my thoughts as a long standing and concerned member of Conference, and none of my comments or opinions are directed at anyone in particular. Use it as you see fit, or disregard it, either way works for me.
Ken Killam
Fats
So the question may be more of how a club might strike the balance between value to the driver-participant (sometimes referred to as the customer) as opposed to the potential revenues that may be generated within the amount of time allotted on the schedule at any given venue?
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Steve Adams
Just this guy, ya know?
Nobody in the non-special races is losing track time, we're just not gaining any additional time due to that freed up by adding NOW to Group 6.
Rod Powell
Shake N Bake Baby
“We all pay the same dollar per minute, regardless of how many cars are on track, so this continuing debate over groups 3 & 6 is quite irritating to me at this point.”
Your above quote spells it out completely, especially the first part regarding the cost per minute. Yes, we do all pay the same.
However, due to some outstanding success in recruitment and organizational leadership, some groups are so damn oversubscribed they are outright dangerous.
I have listened to this debate about 3 and 6 being combined for what, 4 years running or longer? I have heard the promises of “next year more will show up”. For chrissakes, lets act like adults here. Not one person who attends any number of conference races would say that group 3 or 6 is well subscribed. Hell, I have to wait to get on the track in group 4 along with 45 other people, so I have a ringside seat to see all three of them, every frigging race. And guess what, I get the same privilege watching group 6 from the grid, and frankly, without Norm and his outstanding clan of Legends, there would not even be a group.
The closing speed argument is done, over, moot. The Group 1 and 4 closing speeds are far greater, with a far higher population on track, than any of the open wheel groups. Not only is this dangerous, it is patently unfair. To reserve a group for 4-6 entries so they can have a low priced lapping session is absurd.
Wes, your participation and length of conference involvement is well documented and equally well recognized. But it seems you are so convincingly stuck in the past that you cannot understand the present business situation. To make a comment on an open forum regarding private financing is the epitome of rudeness, and to further allude that “your groups” should share equally as damn insulting. The group 3-6 combo did not make any surplus for the club(s), so how is it you justify that they should share in the rewards?
I am not sure how some of the most educated people I have met (Conference members) can get so dull on this topic. The business choice is so obvious it is biting you in the Ass.
Do you really think NASA became the powerhouse it is today because it followed a formula that used to work in the late sixties?
I too am tired of this debate, combine them, give Pro 3 the group they deserve for their efforts, and commence to be financially stable. I have no elected position to lose, nor any political correctness to stop my comments. It is time to combine and move the frick on.
RP
Your above quote spells it out completely, especially the first part regarding the cost per minute. Yes, we do all pay the same.
However, due to some outstanding success in recruitment and organizational leadership, some groups are so damn oversubscribed they are outright dangerous.
I have listened to this debate about 3 and 6 being combined for what, 4 years running or longer? I have heard the promises of “next year more will show up”. For chrissakes, lets act like adults here. Not one person who attends any number of conference races would say that group 3 or 6 is well subscribed. Hell, I have to wait to get on the track in group 4 along with 45 other people, so I have a ringside seat to see all three of them, every frigging race. And guess what, I get the same privilege watching group 6 from the grid, and frankly, without Norm and his outstanding clan of Legends, there would not even be a group.
The closing speed argument is done, over, moot. The Group 1 and 4 closing speeds are far greater, with a far higher population on track, than any of the open wheel groups. Not only is this dangerous, it is patently unfair. To reserve a group for 4-6 entries so they can have a low priced lapping session is absurd.
Wes, your participation and length of conference involvement is well documented and equally well recognized. But it seems you are so convincingly stuck in the past that you cannot understand the present business situation. To make a comment on an open forum regarding private financing is the epitome of rudeness, and to further allude that “your groups” should share equally as damn insulting. The group 3-6 combo did not make any surplus for the club(s), so how is it you justify that they should share in the rewards?
I am not sure how some of the most educated people I have met (Conference members) can get so dull on this topic. The business choice is so obvious it is biting you in the Ass.
Do you really think NASA became the powerhouse it is today because it followed a formula that used to work in the late sixties?
I too am tired of this debate, combine them, give Pro 3 the group they deserve for their efforts, and commence to be financially stable. I have no elected position to lose, nor any political correctness to stop my comments. It is time to combine and move the frick on.
RP
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Ken Killam
Fats
I agree with you Rod.
For safety's sake, and due to the continued strength of popularity and population it IS about time for Pro3 to make up their own spot on the schedule. So it makes good 'ICSCC championship race program' sense to re-designate NCW as Grp 8, and Pro3 becomes Grp 7.
It might make better sense to most educated people than having to untangle a FA from a NOW.
For safety's sake, and due to the continued strength of popularity and population it IS about time for Pro3 to make up their own spot on the schedule. So it makes good 'ICSCC championship race program' sense to re-designate NCW as Grp 8, and Pro3 becomes Grp 7.
It might make better sense to most educated people than having to untangle a FA from a NOW.