Team Continental August Race

I think it is time we look at making a rule that there be NO BACK TO BACK Race Weekend.

I don't believe ANYone thinks back to back (or, back to back to back) week-ends are a good idea, but how can you mandate that there not be any? It's not like the Clubs want that. Sure, there's some "this has been our traditional week-end" stuff that comes up in the Spring/Fall meetings, but a lot of when we get tracks is dictated by what the track says, as I'm sure you know. Somehow, with ORP and now The Ridge becoming available, it seems like the "seller's market" situation from the tracks' perspectives has gotten worse, not better.
 
The suggestion to do a triple race at ORP on the holiday weekend was given at the EB meeting. Don't know why that option wasn't chosen.
 
Oh I am not saying no double/triple race weekends.
I am just saying no back to back race weekends.
Call it a rule, policy, club agreement what ever.
If we can mandate replacing perfectly good 2 year old SFI belts, surly we can come to some agreement not to have races weekends back to back.
I think the workers and drivers would all benefit from such a move.
"Where there is a will there is a way."
Not sure who said that, but they most likely drive a faster car than me.
 
Oh I am not saying no double/triple race weekends.
I am just saying no back to back race weekends.
Call it a rule, policy, club agreement what ever.
If we can mandate replacing perfectly good 2 year old SFI belts, surly we can come to some agreement not to have races weekends back to back.
I think the workers and drivers would all benefit from such a move.
"Where there is a will there is a way."
Not sure who said that, but they most likely drive a faster car than me.

Put that way, there already is a "policy, club agreement what ever" in place. The Clubs (and their E-Board reps) are all aware how much back-to-back week-ends suck for drivers and (especially, in my view) workers. As I said, though, the problem is that we're all at the mercy of the track operators and whatever other parties want track time.
 
Well said John. 3 races back to back makes even less sense than wasting money on replacing perfectly good seat belts for no logical reason.
Unfortunately the clubs are at the mercy of the tracks and their scheduling policies as Steve stated. So the alternative is for fewer races at each venue to assure us that no backs-to-back will take place. Will the clubs agree to that and lose $$, not likely. Which brings up the subject - again - of fewer race week-ends with more racing. If each member club had at least one double or triple each season we could eliminate 3 or 4 week-ends per year. That would ease the pain in the wallet for both drivers and workers. This idea has been kicked around for years, and finally it has started to take hold with the SRP triple and a few doubles, but it has to grow from there.
While I'm on a roll, I would once again like to raise the issue of more racing and less qualifying. Sovren runs one practice I believe, then 4 or 5 races over a week-end, and everyone loves it. When Sovren drivers come to Conference and spend most of their day sitting in the paddock, they hate it, and who can blame them. Hardly any organization does 2 qualifying sessions, so why do we? Do we ever see anyone in the hot pits making adjustments to their cars which result in appreciably faster times in Q2? Does any driver want to quailfy rather than race? Would anyone prefer to spend their money doing laps for a grid spot as opposed to running for points?
 
Regardless of your will. or your way, mandating that there not be back to back races will result in some clubs not being able to hold some or all of their races at all. Is that what you really want?

It is a testament to the efforts of the hard working race chairs and VOLUNTEER officers elected by each individual club that the schedule works out as well as it has! By all means contact your (or any clubs) E-Board representative and ask them how hard we work to try to avoid back to back week-ends. I've posted on this subject several times in the past, but I'm happy to run through it again.

1) Race season runs roughly half the year and even that is pushing it with Northwest weather at either end. That is 26 weeks, and consequently about 26 weekends. In reality, the sprint season (not counting the Cascade Enduro) is usually about FIVE months long since that is when the best weather is, and race attendance usually suffers during the bad weather months. That puts us a lot closer to 21-22 weekends per season.

2) The current ICSCC rules mandate that each of five member clubs has the right to hold three championship races each to comprise a 15 race schedule. That would actually take 28 weeks if they were all singles and spaced evenly two weeks apart. Luckily, to aid attendance for the outlying clubs, the E-Board has encouraged them to hold double weekends which also serves to make the schedule more managable. Byu having a triple at Spokane and doubles at Mission and Grass Valley we end up with a schedule that completes 15 races in 11 weekends. So far, so good - in a perfect world, we could fit 11 weekends spaced a perfect two weeks apart into the 22 weekends of the "good weather" racing season.

3) The member clubs each strive to have a good relationship with the track that they hold races on but, hold on to your preconcieved notions, WE MAY NOT BE THEIR ONLY CONCERN! Some of the best weekends of the summer are not available to us because professional events that draw large crowds (and result in large revenues) get first consideration. Large drag racing events, historic sports car racing, Nascar roadracing, and even big time events put on by the world's car manufacturers and major marque clubs often take slots that we might want for our perfect schedule.

4) Lets talk about the tracks for a minute - each club has a widely varying amount of control or influence over the tracks they host races at. Here is my basic understanding, and please - if I am stating any of this incorrectly please correct me:

Mission - I believe that SCCBC is basically in control of this track so they generally have good control of whatever dates they want to hold races. That is not to say that it isn't a revenue producing asset, and I'm sure there are a lot of renters who want onto their schedule that they would also to accomodate.

ORP - I know a lot of TC members have participated to some degree financially in a track that they can finally call home and I assume they have reasonably good control over what dates they can schedule races on. Taking that into account, I'm guessing it also has the potential to be quite a bit colder and less hospitable in May and Spetember/October if there is bad weather so they could potentially want to fit more into the nicer weather months.

Spokane - No clue, but it sounds like the track is happy to have us while they build their clientele. It's schedule may well get more crowded as the track matures but for now since they are scheduleing one triple, it seems to work out OK

Portland International - The problem with being a track that has hosted lots of big time professional series is that there is a lot of competition for dates. It is also not a "for profit" venue as it is run by the city which may have different priorities than a track run as a for profit business. My understanding is that Cascade submits a schedule of desired event dates and alternates to each date and in the end PIR assigns them some dates that may be their preferred, may be their alternates, or may be what they have available and not a preferred OR alternate.

Pacific Raceways - In recent years have really worked hard to help us get the dates we need, but as with PIR have a lot of other big clients competing for dates. When their schedule was done they didn't have a SINGLE open weekend for the racing season this year and still had people on the waiting list who wanted spots.

The Ridge - The constructors of this facility have pulled off a small miracle getting it operational in a short amount of time and even considering we have been in the loop with the owners since day one it was already filling up by the time we got our date. There is going to be even more demand for this track going forward and I have no doubt it will also fill up for every available weekend of the racing season in the years to come.

5) Because of the structure of the ICSCC all of the clubs come to the fall E-Board meetings with a list of the weekends that they would like to have based on what they think would be best for them and what their home track has available. At that point FIVE different clubs representing the needs and desires of FIVE different groups of members start negotiating to five FIFTEEN races within the available dates at SIX different racetracks. Been a while since I left college but I'm pretty sure the statistical chances of a schedule that makes everybody happy are non-existant. By the time we get to the Fall meeting, whatever dates Pacific Raceways, PIR, and The Ridge have perncilled in for their respective clubs are usually the only ones available. If there are still two races back to back the only possible solution at that point is for an outlying club to change their date if they have other dates avaiable or for IRDC or Cascade to cancel their event because they can have the dates scheduled or nothing. There are no alternate dates avaiable to switch to.

This problem is one that is near and dear to me. I sent out e-mails to all of the clubs DURING the 2011 race season proposing that we all try to get an early start and throw out some proposed race dates so we could construct a season that would minimize interferences. I sent out some dates that we were looking at and asked others to do the same. Most did. Linda Heinrich then reached out to me and we met DURING the 2011 Cascade enduro to go over the schedule with the hopes of trying to make any shifts while it was still early enough that there still might be a few weekends open that would allow us to move. We all worked diligently at the E-Board meetings and used all of our choices and options and the 2012 schedule was as good as we could possible get.

It's funny - I'm on my way out as a Board member for IRDC so I can be a little more politically incorrect. There are people who give a tremendous amount of time and effort to their clubs - they really work their butts off in an effort to give back to the clubs and the sport that they have enjoyed. They want to give the membership the things they want if at all possible, but sometimes you have to settle for what you can actually get done. By all means pass a rule that says "I'm not happy with the results of all of the difficult things you volunteered to do on my behalf, so in the future I an going to INSIST that you volunteer to do IMPOSSIBLE things for me with perfect results."

Better yet - you can have my chair and somewhere down the road we will have a beer together and you will be able to laugh at the days when you believed that five clubs could put 15 races on six tracks spaced two weeks apart with 22 weeks to work with. There are several other factors affecting attendance at ORP and will affect Cascade's Doernbecher Dash, but I've already written way too much and that could take us the rest of the week. Sorry you are unhappy, best of luck with your rule change.
 
First I would like to thank all of the volunteers that make our sport possible their efforts are really appreciated. Rick I do sympathize with the boards position having been on boards myself and it would be my pleasure to by you a beer anytime. That said and not being critical here, I have noticed that when the prospect of changes to the schedule comes up there is a certain amount of defensiveness on the part of board members. I do not believe that anyone is attacking the boards or the members or saying that they have not done a good job. They have done a very good job within the rule structure and all the other aspects of scheduling the series. However, with each passing year it seems that more clubs are facing the same situation that TC faced this weekend...poor turnout for the event. I do not believe that a rule change is necessary but perhaps a change in philosophy. Yes the math is correct and currently it is 11 weekends but what if more clubs did put on doubles. The number of weekends could be reduced to 8 or so. The real problem is that ICSCC and SCCA are competing for many of the same drivers. I know that there are purists on both sides that would not ever attend an event by the other organization but there are many that race with both. SCCA faces the same problem and I have and will continue to put forth the same solution. Here in the NW there are too many organizations/events competing for the same drivers/workers etc in a rather narrow weather window. This forces one to choose between events. If ICSCC and SCCA would each reduce the number of weekends and cooperate with scheduling the facilities the chance for conflict would be reduced. Eliminated?... probably not but at least minimized. I was talking with a gent at the Ridge a week ago and he stated that there is a study that states the average driver will attend 1 event per month, due to family, job etc. Most of us are above average as we attend at least 2 in the summer months. This fact is worth considering. Especially in these tough economic times, bang for the buck is a key player in a participants decision making process. For me each race weekend is a minimum of 425 mi one way, PIR being the closest track, so if I have a choice between a single event and a double, I am more likely to pick the double.
Finally, I would like to again thank the volunteers. If not for the distance involved, I would welcome the chance to be on a board. Contrary to some of the posts I have seen on the forum, some of us don't just arrive, drive, and leave bacause we don't care or are lazy. We do it bacause we have a 7 hr+ tow in front of us and need to get going. Again, this is not meant to attack anyone, just a plea that the various boards with all of the sanctioning bodies review their philosophy on scheduling. And Rick, and any other board member/volunteer, the offer of a beer is open.
 
At a 10,000' view, I see two issues that we (the Clubs in ICSCC) can control:
  • A willingness when necessary to give up a "traditional" date.
  • Some sort of groundswell consensus among the drivers (and, to a lesser extent, the workers) about how a race's schedule should go. No practice sessions? One qualifying round? Two races per single week-end? And so on. This needs to be driver-driven because, after all, they're the ones doing the paying and around whom the sport revolves. Workers, without whom we can't do this and who need to have input about the length of their day, time between sessions, etc.
 
Sherm - I'm would never even suggest anything negative about a driver who either can't or won't serve on a Board or Committee. If it sounded like that then I apologize - that wasn't the point that I was trying to get across at all. I served on the Board of the IRDC becasue some people that I rspected asked me to give back to the Club and at the time I felt I could manage the time and the effort to do so. This might even sound bad, but in the end we all do things for our own reasons - I found it to be informative, fulfilling, and I leave it knowing that I was one of a group of dedicated people that did some good for my fellow racers. It made ME feel good and thats why I did it -- I wasn't looking for recognition.

Steve suggests that one thing we can control is our willingness to give up a "traditional" date. I think that those dates actually switch around more than people think, but that can be good and bad. Yes, holding on to a traditional date would be bad if if made for a string of back to back races. On the other hand, if we could expect the schedule to be roughly the same every year and just refine the dates that were a problem within a short time we would have a very favorable schedule. If we had to start from scratch every year and some years it isn't far from that!) it makes the scheduling process almost impossible. Hey, maybe we should hold a fantasy football style draft every year and go around the room picking dates one at a time? I joke - that would result in us probably being able to hold about a five race season - that part isn't a joke.

I also wasn't suggesting that I felt that I hadn't gotten the recognition or thanks that I am due - I really meant that to be about a lot of people who have worked a whole lot harder than I have, for a lot longer than I have, and have never even made a peep in their selflessness.

As for the SCCA, it's difficult enough to negotiate dates among the five friendly ICSCC member clubs - there is literally no chance that we will introduce outside interests into the mix to further complicate matters. We have a friendly rivalry with the SCCA. We share a few drivers and several volunteers, but in the end we compete for entries. Racers have a limited amount of time, energy, and disposable income so we really appreciate it when you spend it with Conference and that especially means you who has to travel so far to join us - thank you.

Here is what it all comes down to for me - the people who are setting up the schedule and administering the Clubs and Conference are JUST LIKE YOU. They want the same things you do. They are racers that just happen to also volunteer to help run the show to the benefit of everyone. They want space between schedule dates, so if there isn't any then they aren't any happier than you are. They want all of the member clubs to hold successful races that will provide them enough revenues to hold more races in the future just like you. They may have learned some of the pitfalls that result from bad decisions the hard way and that makes them look at potential changes very carefully, but they are just as willing to try a carefully thought out new idea as you are. In the end the leadership, the membership, and the club are all the same - they are you or at least the peers you see every time you go to a Conference event. Each and every driver has just as much power over our ruleset as a Club officer or Board Member - our drivers make the rules and that has always been one of the great strengths of Conference.

As to the idea of different schedules Steve - I'm with you. THere are any number of different race day schedules that have some real merit. In order to go any further somebody (or a group of somebodies) needs to write a REALLY good description of exactly how they want it to work complete with a review of the rulebook with an itemized list of all of the changes that will be required throughout. As we both know, less than complete solutions go to the E-Board meetings to die.
 
I think some folks underestimate the number of workers that volunteer their time and talents for both Conference and SCCA. All but a very small handful that call PIR their home track work both. I'm just one of many such volunteers. I typically work between 20 and 25 events per year. Those weekends are usually split between Conference and Oregon Region. I typically work all of the Conference races south of the border and all of the Oregon Region events. If I work enough Oregon Region events, my membership is paid for me. I've been too busy going to races to figure out how the conflicts have messed that last bit up. I've been or will be at all three IRDC race weekends, all three of which are in direct conflict with Oregon Region events. I understand that there are always problems creating the race schedule. You don't spend over 40 years in motorsports and fail to understand that. It used to be that there were typically 3 empty weekends in August. This year those weekends are all filled with Conference weekenda and one NASCAR weekend, while June had 3 empty weekends south of the border. Back to back weekends don't bother me as you can probably guess from the number of weekends I pack into a race season. I applaud the efforts to reduce the number of weekends. I like the fact that the length of day is restricted at some tracks. The days for the volunteers starts with a morning meeting one hour before cars are scheduled on track. As you are probably all aware, the cars take to the course no later than 9 and at some tracks as early as 8. This last weekend at ORP, there was no one in Group 6. Group 3 was moved into that time slot, but the schedule was not re-written due to the limitations of the rule book. Thus we ended up sitting around looking at an empty track when we could have all been done an hour earlier if the rule book had allowed. Personally, I would love it if ORP would use the same sort of schedule that NWMS uses at Spokane. Their schedule usually finishes before 4 in the afternoon on Sunday. That is greatly appreciated by the folks that have the long trip home. ORP is just as long a tow for the folks in Seattle as it is to Spokane. We finished on time at 5:45. I only needed to unload a safety truck and return some equipment to a few people and it was still 6:30 before getting on the road. A stop for food and we got home around 10. I live in Longview. Now tack on 2 to 3 hours for folks in the Puget Sound area or 5 for our Canadian friends on top of what it took me. We need to address the issue of being able to rewrite the schedule and we need to think outside the box when it comes to scheduling race weekends. I stongly encourage TC to go to the triple race format and told both the race chairman and the president of TC as much. Not only will the triple be more profitable for the drivers, it will be more profitable for TC since they will have fewer track rental days. This is just one volunteer's opinion and thoughts. Your mileage may vary.
 
Nothing personal ORP, but I think most folks outside of the PDX area are good for one tow a year to ORP and no more. And if it is just once a year, then it would be more special like the once a year trip to Spokane is special for many drivers.
 
In my opinion, TC was hurt for workers, and to a lesser extent for drivers by having the double at ORP on Memorial day weekend in conflict with the
NW SCCA double national @ Pacific. For the most recent weekend, I think we were hurt by all the upcoming events, week after week. I agree with Rob that is
was very hard to just let half hour + of track time go by in order not to move schedule up, while making all workers add that extra time to their already long
day.

I'd expect that NWMS is also hurt to some extent by being in conflict with the SCCA double national in Portland the same weekend. We are competing for
a relatively small clientele. I think we are going to have to expand the total available market in order for the clubs to continue to be successful.
 
Everyone loves good bang for your buck... especially when it is a comparison of tow time (+cost) vs. track time (+cost). All the clubs have worked hard to make this a reality, but NWMS has nailed it for me.

I have raced Spokane all three years I've been racing in the Northwest (2010,2011 & 2012). The last two years I have double entered the triple race format (insanity, but my lap times this year prove I've leveraged my seat time wisely there).

It's a 4ish hour tow to ORP, 4.5 hour tow to Spokane. I have only been to ORP once... that was for the 12 hour Rat Race in May. (Seat Time and low cost!).
 
In regards to what Lance mentioned - for those around the Portland area ORP is just as long a tow as The Ridge. Pacific, Mission and Spokane are all longer hauls for us. Unfortunately, we live in a part of the country that is not flat (i.e. everything east of the Rockies) so towing back and forth to tracks will always be a budget constraint for some.

Yes, I agree that multi-race weekends are a great bargain, and make the longer tows worth while, keep in mind that it's all a matter of perspective; every track is a long haul for someone!
 
We need to get proactive. Can the clubs get started looking at dates and working with some creative solutions?
It seems that if you start early, you might be able to work with other clubs/organizations to swap dates if necessary.

It looks like the creative solutions are going to be very important in order to keep all the tracks very attended. The Saturday special races seem to be a big plus. And the financial balance between single, double and triple race weekends certainly needs to be considered.

We don't want to see any of our clubs or venues have trouble staying afloat. We have a plethora of riches and it will take some effort and compromise to make everything work.
 
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I have not run ORP yet though I was there as crew last year for the double. It looks like a blast to drive and I am putting it on my schedule for next season, but only if it's a double, or preferably a triple. No amenities like restrooms and a convenient place to stay, or dine, plus a very expensive tow makes a single event rather unattractive for me personally. If a driver is not running for points then that week-end would most probably be replaced by a closer venue.
I can recall maybe 20 years ago when we lost Westwood and only had Seattle, Portland and Port Orford I believe for awhile. Now we are blessed with 6 tracks within 5 hours for most of us, and can't support them all with the current state of both the economy and our race budgets. Ain't fair I tell ya!
 
Seemsd like that would help doesn't it Karen? I thought the same thing, so I tried to start much earlier than usual last year. Turns out it doesn't help as much as I thought.

I know that it doesn't matter how early Cascade would like to start planning because PIR assigns it's dates when it goes through and set up its calendar in September or October I believe. I don't know what criteria or hierarchy it uses to decide who gets their first choices and who takes whats left but I'm pretty sure pro events come first. I think Linda Heinrich told me they didn't get a single one of their first choices last year.

At Pacific Raceways, they would love for us to give them choices early but there is a clause written right into the contract that makes provisions for us being bumped if a big event needs the date. They would truly hate to have to do that to us, but they are in it to make enough money to survive so sometimes tough decisions have to be made. There is also the problem of tracks having to wait until everybody that they are expecting for the following year to get their requests in. If we ask for a certain date a year in advance, they are probably not going to give it to us until their big money-making events have submitted their required dates.

So, lets say just for the point of argument that four clubs can get prospective dates from their tracks in July for the following year, while the remaining one can't get their assigned dates until September. Do we tell that club that they can't hold races because the dates they have available were taken by other clubs who could negotiate months earlier?

Let's talk multiple race week-ends. The Conference E-Board has kind of an unwritten guideline that suggests multiple race weekends shoud be reserved for the outlying clubs. They have a number of disadvantages already like smaller native membership and longer overall tows that make it more difficult to get the race attendance they need to be successful, so getting two or three races out of a single tow helps them draw more entries so they can remain viable. There is some merit to the idea of holding a double and a single with IRDC and Cascade and possibly SCCBC and a triple at ORP and SRP. That would be a 15 race season in 8 weekends! Should be able to fit a well spaced 8 race calendar into 22 weeks. Got to look at a lot of other "unintended consequences" though as well. Downside is that with the gross majority of Conference race drivers living in the vincinity of Seattle and Portland, how many would get 6 races in 4 weekends and not visit the outlying tracks and even if they did, maybe not as much. Also, if we cut a race weekend each out of our contracts with the tracks, we become less valuable to them by a third and potentially have even less access to good weekends.

If there is one thing that I have found to be true in my life it is that there are no easy answers to complex questions. This is a good dialogue - I'm always open to constructive criticism. Best to offer some good ideas for a solution rather than just dissatisfaction with the way things are curently done though. It's no good to just say "I don't like this". It's much better to say, "maybe we should try doing this" and let everybody poke holes in it and modify it until is a working solution.
 
The weekend's entries were not what were hoped, but not so much unexpected. We got a lot of training done, and beautiful, if not a bit on the hawt side. Great food and some good racing. The schedule was what it turned out to be and we all left tired, but with all of our fingers and all of our toes.

Watch for a TC bake sale booth at the DDash.

Three-race weekends are grueling, but somewhat more convenient on a holiday weekend. I wonder if we could get one of the NCW races out of the way if they were given practice, qualifying, and then their 'real' race session laced into the DT on Friday? Hmmmm...
 
As an aside (and as a member of TC) I think maybe there should/could be an early season race at ORP.. While the area can be very temperamental as far as weather is concerned, I think it could be done..

I was out at the early Star Project test and tune in February, and yes the track did need to be closed for a "snow break", but we still got a ton of dry track time. With that in mind, is it feasible to put a season opener/double header at ORP for say April? Or with how the weather has been recently in the northwest (late summers..) why not an October Race? The Chump series has done it successfully the last few years at the end of October..

Just suggestions.
 
Great comments Rick. I agree that getting a dialogue started and looking at the issues from all angles is the correct way to go. This is a very complex problem in changing times and as we have seen recently with both ICSCC and SCCA all participants, groups, workers, clubs, etc need to begin to 'think outside the box', change paradigms, or whatever other catch phase you care to use. I know that I am in something of a unique situation with distance and the choice to race is my own. Truth told I would love to have a 5 hr tow as my longest tow with 2-3 or shorter being the norm. But I do see a trend in comments from those living closer regarding multiple races etc. You bring up excellent points that no one solution is without unintended consequences like racers getting their 6 at close venues and ignoring the events further away. The dialogue is great and change will be slow which is probably appropriate, hip shooting not being a good thing. I would volunteer to join a group such as that mentioned earlier to study the rules and correlate them with possible changes while looking for the unintended downsides. Doing this at this early time in the process for next year is a plus. Looking forward to a great weekend at the Ridge.
BTW Rick, my previous comments were not intended to imply that you had asked for recognition in any way. My kudos to you and all the other volunteers, workers, board members etc were meant sincerely. Nor was I offended in any way by your comments, having spent 25 yrs of my life in the company of fighter pilots my skin is thick.LOL My main goal was to get a dialog such as this started.
 
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