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Have to run a 700 number and are welcome to race anyways........or forced to buy a membership/licence etc to go play? hmmmmmm

Get to just show up and voumteer or have to buy a membership etc in order to freeze, bake, burn, get eaten alive, give of your time and money? again hmmmmm

When I had an ASN/FIA Race Official licence it was not accepted nor recognized by SCCA, who I believe is also part of the FIA, so in order to volunteer and support the various motor sports events, one had to part with yet again more money for the priveledge. Which by the way, a lot of us do every year, just so we can go racing too because those are the rules.

With the amount of entries that we have every Conference weekend, and the time constraints we sometimes are faced with, we keep a pretty damned good schedule and we go away happy.

There are pros and cons, good rules, goofy rules, to all sanctioning bodies, but if you want to play with them you abide by their rules. When in Rome....it's just that easy.
The choice is always yours.

(FWIW the charge of that Miata from back to front was great to watch...didn't care what number was on the car.)
 
The 8 minute / 5 minute was brought about because of the different lengths of time it takes to do the pace lap at diffferent tracks so the race STARTS at the posted time. You can't have a 5 minute warning 5 minutes before the posted start time of the race or the pace lap will be with the clock running.
One of our drivers got sent to the back of the grid as he arrived after the 5 minute warning was given, but he was still 5 minutes ahead of the posted race start time, so hence the changes. Believe me there was quite the dicussion about how to word the change and when it all boiled down, they did the best they could at the time, but the EBoard knew that it could be cleaned up and made a bit clearer.
So if someone can come up with new verbage, the Fall Meeting is right around the corner. But it will still stay with the understanding that the 5 minute warning being 5 minutes before the START OF THE PACE LAP. (or crap there goes the schedule)
 
If the schedule says the race starts at say 3:00 pm then that is when the green flag will drop for the race so you add 2 to 3 minutes for the pace lap so that is how you get 8 minutes. 5 minutes plus the pace lap
 
FWIW, I didn't say I hated the logic behind the 5-minute warning thing, just the change itself. As for keeping an eye on the scheduled start time and back-timing accordingly... yeah, that works great so long as the day is on schedule, but you sure as shootin' can't rely on THAT, now, can ya?
 
SCCA requires a driver to stay dressed until they are completely off track (which includes the pit lane) also. So it works both ways.

As I may not agree with 100% of the content of his blog/whatever, it is certainly his personal opinion that was provided. So classify it under the heading of, "Be Careful What You Ask For", you just may get it.

Is it really any different than the attitudes that we have heard, more than just a couple times, from Conference drivers that have had unfortunate experiences while participating in SCCA, or other events? Do you suppose that is why regional CP classes are nearly non-existent?

Usually at the conclusion of some mission, or incident, our Safety team, or Turn Crews has dealt with, we try to debrief, and discuss what just occurred, and figure ways to improve on our performance. It does little good to blame ourselves, or others for the situation. I'd like to think that it is a professional attitude that mandates that practice.

Ask your local Registrar, they can tell you how those 'high-maintance' drivers are (They keep lists too). And they have recognized that the issues are usually due to a failure, or refusal to read the supps/regs/announcement/schedule/last line of the page, etc.

And that is certainly not unique to any given sanctioning body.

It's unfortunate that feelings get hurt, but we have to remember that not everybody has the same perspective, and we have to respect that, if not each others, opiinion.

Anyway, back to the Cascade Memorial event---

I wasn't in the drivers' seat of Safety this weekend, but I had a great time at the event, We now have a well trained team performing their jobs nearly flawlessly, and I'm damn proud of the Cascade Sports Car Club Safety Team.

I was able to fill the new fire bottles with Cold Fire, and further support that team. Even so, I got in a couple flat-tows with "Safety-Lite", and a few go-fer missions through the weekend. I got to watched the IT race with TC's Driving Master who's car went mechanical on the pace lap.

It was a good weekend... for me.:D
 
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I myself respect other opinions, when the content is free from remarks about someone's personal attributes given in a way that is clearly meant to personally demean.

Disagreement with rules, processes, whatever, is one thing.

The demeaning commentary is blatantly disrespectful, and makes me completely unreceptive to any constructive consideration of the basis of the complaints.

Not to mention not so inclined to recognize credentials for race entry purposes.
 
Steve,
If the race day is not on schedule then it's running LATE.
We cannot start a race until the publicly posted time. So if at that point a driver is late to grid and we are already behind schedule....oh man he really missed the boat. (or the 8 minute tee hee)
He might want to send his Rolex out for repairs.
 
Just to clarify a few items concerning the blog- I'm the driver of the yellow RX-7 going into turn 4. From watching the posted video I can clearly see that my right front lit up under braking. Being the lightest corner on the car it has a tendency to do this but more often in the heat of the battle.
I still can't figure out how this ended up being an identified problem.
Anyways, I also watched my in-car video as well as Brian's and feel his pass was within the limits of overtaking a car thru turn 7. Cars have a tendency to slide up the banking on exit and I was ready for his pass and slid up on the rumble strips in parallel with Brian.
I wasn't expecting any press as I felt I had a clean race but on the other hand now my car in on you tube, again.
I also experienced being late to the grid and starting from the back in the last Seattle race. I was disappointed in myself versus the folks gridding my car. But in the end it made for a great race and that's why I keep coming back...
 
I have the advantage of being on the inside of a club that puts on races several times a year. All I can do is hope that people realize the unbelievable amount of effort and attention to detail it takes to make one of these races actually happen. Race chairs, set-up people, course marshall, e-crew, turnworkers, registration, pre-grid, timing and scoring, race officials and anyone who through my blindness I missed..... each and every one of our volunteers is like gold to us. They love us and we love them, so we watch out for each other all the time. If those folks don't bust their humps to make these races happen, you don't even get an opportunity to have something to complain about.

Our stewards are well repected drivers who would like to be racing, but feel the job of Steward is important enough to take a minimum of two years off to make the races happen for the rest of us. I know most of the recent ones pretty well, and I'm betting they are the kind of guys who felt that it was an honor to be asked to serve their fellow drivers in that capacity, so perhaps you could keep the cheap shots to a minimum.

Frankly, we expect drivers to have a good working knowledge of the rules as part of their proper preparation for a race week-end. You criticize someone for not spending enough time prepping their brakes but you couldn't be bothered to read and understand the rules and the supps? Instead of flinging out Nazi references, perhaps you should say "thank you" to the steward that did read the rules and took the time to concern himself with your safety.

If you have constructive criticism that will make us a better organization then we are eager to hear it. Conference is an organization run BY racers FOR racers and for nothing more than a few bucks you can join one of the member clubs. Any driver member in good standing has the priviledge of writing a rule proposal at the end of every year, which is then voted on by all of the other driver members who care enough to show up at the yearly rules meeting. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the rules that you don't seem to like very much were created and enacted by a majority of the licensed race drivers in Conference and are subject to review and revision each and every year, so you are not just slamming our hard working volunteer stewards but each and every ICSCC licensed race driver who are responsible for our rules.

My father always said that the way people treat you has a lot to do with how you treat them. I'd suggest you work on being a part of the solution or you can expect to remain a part of the problem.
 
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karen_stimson said:
I'm with Brian on the "5 min" warning--how can a "5"minute warning be given any other time than "5" minutes from something? Call it something else if it is to be given some other time--It's CONFUSING this way.
Hope your next experience is better.
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Isn't it clear enough that the 5 minute warning is 5 minutes before release from grid? Its the SAME 5 minute warning that is given 5 minutes before every other departure from grid. If folks want the race to go Green at the stated time on the schedule, the pace lap must be taken into account. There was a time several years ago when the pace lap was not taken into account and every race started late because of it. We don't have the luxury of running late at some tracks anymore, so it had to be fixed. Everyone will get used to it just as the workers had to get used to renumbered turn stations some years back.
 
Our rule book doesn't actually define the 5 minute warning anywhere, that might be the root of the problem. Maybe someone could write a rule change proposal. "The 5 minute warning will be given no more than 5 minutes before the cars are released from pregrid." Then maybe add some verbage about putting the length of time a pace lap takes in the subs and some wording about the competitors being responsible for knowing this.

Wouldn't solve all the problems for the competitors who don't read the rule book and/or the sups.
 
707 is not just a Boeing jet liner.

Look at Comp Reg 707 (pp.28-29), Dave. It's huge, and amongst too many other things, it attempts to describe to us what the 5 minutes deal is all about, but it says nothing in the form of what you just described. I'm surprised you missed that...;) Not!

I don't understand how "Joe Normal" can keep it in context unless they carry the book around with them every second.

The issue I recognized at the time of the rule change, and have previously described to others, and this forum, was that more verbage was added to verbage within verbage, and we have to read the whole %#*^ thing every time to decipher all the verbage. Best of luck with that.

Within that convolution of literary quagmire is a mandate to add more verbage to the schedule in order to describe the intent of the verbage, but without referance to 707's verbage. Within the rule, too, it is mandated to add the adjusted minutes for the pace lap to the five minutes, and then publish that total on the schedule, and the event supplimentals. When there was an attempt to describe, on the schedule, and supplimentals the 5 minute warning as 5 minutes to the release of the pace car, that got kerboshed, because it was not in direct context with the verbage of Comp Reg. 707.

It's perfectly clear, no? So simple a concept, yet so complicated in its presentation.

As much as I can, and do appreciate the ICSCC policies for the modification of their regulations, sometimes I just have to walk away shaking my head.

But I don't walk very far. :p That's right, I'm not a licensed driver, so what do I know about it anyway.

I can usually recognize the convolution of communications (having used those techniques so many times myself). And Scott's comparison to the Hydro races is an excellent example of how other racing sanctions have evolved to the same unfortunate encoding of their announcements.

If everyone understood the five minute warning to be previous to the release of the Pace car, or release of the false grid onto the track, and not to the Green flag, I believe that it would make it easier for all to grasp the concept of 'not being late to Pre-Grid'. Then the whole process of getting the cars moving onto the track in a timely manner may be accomplished.

So, isn't that what the regulations are really attempting to accomplish? What is the real intent? It may be time again for most of the drivers... no... Competition Board Reps to agree on the essence of the issue.

It's all so perfectly clear, what?
 
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The issue is NOT what the 5 minutes warning indicates, the issue is that the times posted in the schedules are for RACE START, not "release from pre-grid." That, plus the fact that a pace lap is different at EACH track we race on, means that there are only three ways to know when the 5 minutes will actually start:
  • Assume we're on schedule. Take the green flag time shown on the schedule and back-time by the number of minutes the "5 minutes" actually signifies at that particular track. This is safe 'cause, you know, we never get off schedule.
  • Be close enough to one of the garbled track speakers and keep tabs on when the various other announcements are made. Good luck with that. (or maybe you've got an AM radio handy?)
  • Leave for pre-grid as soon as the previous group heads out on track. Try not to sweat too much while you sit there in all your safety gear (or drown in your OW car in the rain). Heaven help you if you're still thrashing away on your car to fix something when that other group leaves pre-grid.
 
brian_towey said:
http://meettheroad.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/conference-racing-and-the-mall-cops/
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crybaby.jpg
 
My starter crapped out after the 5min was given. Had to wait for the grid to leave before getting a push start.

You don't see me whining about it.
 
Scott Norton said:
You think that is confusing try Hydroplane racing.
5 min to the 5 min to the 10 min to the 5 min. Wait on hold for ?? how long while the boat sits in the water driver strapped in.

I either try to get there early to get my mind right or if I am gridded at the back I do it in my paddock and still always arrive before 5 min when ever that is. :)

If your early it makes no differance if at 8 mins or not.
If your late well your late anyway.
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i always liked the five to the five, or the five to the five to the five;)
 
At ORSCCA events they do a 1st call, 2nd call, last call routine that starts about halfway through the previous event, or like 20 minutes previous to the session. Not just for races, but every session so that folks are aware to get themselves there.

I'd have to look, and see if it's in the supp/GCR, but regardless it's a good plan to be consistent with.
 
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