Maximum grid size

Mark Estes

Mark Estes

Well-known member
Is there a maximum grid size or rule of thumb for our conference race tracks? I had heard once that there was something about number of cars per mile of track and had something to do with insurance. Does someone have the knowledge of this, is it in our rule book? TIA
 
Based on past fields at Portland, we must not enforce that then. 2 miles and I have driven with almost 60 cars in group 5
 
2,25 miles for PR allows 56 cars, but at what 1.95 PIR is technically over the limit with grids above 49. We ran 117 cars at Road America in July of 09' which is a 4 mile circuit, so it appears the enforcement is up to each track.
 
I think PIR is supposedly 55. In the early 2000s I was in the festival trophy race during Rose Cups, and that ended up being limited
to 55 cars if my memory is correct.
 
This subject has, in the past, been beaten into the bushes before. I was going to attempt to find an old thread that covered just about ever square millimeter of the subject, but the archives don't lend themselves to easy search. Or perhaps it was previous to the last datastraphy. I can't remember how long ago, but we had all the math laid out according to the FIA calculations (car type equations), and I believe that the SCCA settles on 25 cars per mile. But even with that, a Chief Steward can consider extending that depending on the track, and conditions. They have that authority according to their sanction's GCR.

HST---It truly is a number that is considered, and applied at the discretion of the sanctioning body, event official, or simply whomever is the over-all authority for presenting/promoting the event.

25-ish per mile is probably the best 'rule of thumb', but some people will have bigger thumbs... like Chump Car.

Wacky Racers sm.jpg​

How about let's try this...

We get 60 entries in the CSCC Enduro, and figure out if that's too many (it shouldn't take too long). Then in March perhaps we'll see that the traffic jam of 55 cars going into 3A after the inevitable restarts during the IRDC Enduro may not be quite enough.

Here's some 2010 FIA stuff. It's a little dry reading in spots, but many questions in regard to the basics of race operations, and event organization are answered well. Check it. You may be amazed at just how easily it may be understood the first time through.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/InternationalSportingCodeA.aspx

Now go skim the ICSCC Regulations.


dr-seuss.jpg
 
When the cars per mile parameter was established many years ago the majority of cars running were the size of ground pounders to the 25 per mile was reasonable. Today, because of the signaficantly smaller size of the cars competing the cars per mile may be increased 75 to 100%. This is especially so when the majority of the cars running are the size of Miata's, CRX's and Pro3 cars. Of course what I just stated is false and meant in jest. Then again, who knows?

Smiles,
Jim Venable
"Nice Guy Jim Racing"
 
I am merely an observer, Randy. And I leave the content of my editorials to the objective/subjective consideration of the reader/listener.

Disdain? No, not really... well maybe a smidge, but I'm a volunteer, not an employee, so I'm allowed. And perspective certainly changes depending on what position you find yourself in.

Stand on the outside of a 'stricken' car on a 'hot' track sometime, in the dark, waiting for a good hole in traffic to recover it to safety, only to find that the driver simply ran out of gas, and knew that it would create a FCY, and get immediate response by stopping on course.

So maybe a smidge. As much as we like to be called 'customer', we are really just another 'member' volunteering our participation in this, our great sport.

As flying is more than stick, and rudder. It's all about the craft.

Hey, ekiM!! Have you been able to re-format the ICSCC regulations for read-ability, and comprehension, yet?
 
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I wanted to, and had asked about it. I never got a soft copy of the regulations, so I never got started.

As Steward, I never enforced a max car count regulation. I was told that there are FIA regulations for that, but that we don't heed them. Some other organizations do. Fortunately, I think it also came to pass that during my time as Steward I never had a group that was big enough to hit whatever anyone had speculated was the limit.
 
We've run large grids in group 1 for some time now, with pronounced differences in closing speeds between the classes, and to my recollection at least, group 1 has been one of the cleanest groups on grid.

What is being alluded to here? Hopefully not that we should turn away participants - or perhaps rather there's info-gathering occurring, to try to tackle a change of class makeup within the Groups? For Sudoku masochists only.
 
As an FYI to whoever strategizes Run Group Mix, PRO3 is now at 49 built cars with log books, and will be over 50 by next spring. Also, there are 8 or 9 additional that are caged and under construction. When those under contruction are completed and hit the track and turn some competitive laps we'll move them up the list to joint the Built Car list.
 
Given current Group 5 counts at some races, were we to start showing up with 15 944 Cup cars at some Conference events it could easily put that grid over 60 to almost 70 cars. Without those guys we have had high 50's already...

It is quite likely that we will schedule more ICSCC events for our regional points battle next year so this is not a theoretical but a quite plausible thing to occur in 2011.
 
In the short term the Steward has the option to move a class to another group on a race weekend to adjust group sizes. Its been done in the past - early 90's. I seem to remember one race where they just split the group in two. With the pro3's at 50+ and growing, I think that Steward Tom might need to look at our group structure. If we have 50+ pro3 cars consistantly showing up for the races, something will need to be changed. But they will put on a hell of a show.... as long as Mike leaves the skirt at home.
 
Big Grids = Good problem to have ($$$).

What I had heard was that second entries would get bumped if a run group were too big. But has that ever happened? I don't recall in my 10 years in the sport. Maybe one of our esteemed 20-30 year veteran members can chime in.

I don't think you'll ever see 100% of the PRO3 inventory in the same race. There always a few on the sidelines. But it does increase the odds to see 40+ PRO3 cars in a race. Our biggest grid this year was 37 for the NASCAR race. 31 (I think) for an ICSCC race.

PRO3 averaged 20 cars per race in 2010.
In 2009 averaged 17 cars per race
In 2008 averaged 14 cars per race.
 
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Good replies guys , thanks and good discussion as well. Since we're a "drivers" club its good to discuss class and group makeup every once in a while because through the normal course of evolution grids shrink and grow. I am sure it's a tough decision to propose changes and to balance the grids between the run groups for a variety of different of reasons. (not that I'm proposing any) At least Group1 has proven that cars with big HP differences can play nice together we have a good understanding going on.


Editing My post! after posting I thought for a minute, .. :tongue:
We'll with an average of 20 pro3 cars we got along well with the Ground pounders in Grp1, I shouldn't speak for them, maybe they wont like it so much when there are 40 of us clogging up the race track! If I had 2x or 3x more hp, maybe I wouldn't want to play slalom around the pro3 guys all day either.
 
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In my 20+ years I havent heard of a second entry being bumped. Not to say it couldnt have happened but I dont believe so.
 
Speaking for myself, I prefer more traffic. The more the better actually. I run in G4 and G1, and G1 is more fun.

Many times, I get a front row seat to some fantastic in-class multi car races, and I think there is an understanding and appreciation between the various cars about what we each need.

The bigger issue I think is giving the newer or less experienced racers more consideration, AKA cars with Area stickers. They are in a heavily populated group, with some classes where the intensity level has grown to a point, that sometimes we may not make sufficient accommodations for their inexperience.
 
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