Kart enduro rules!! Must read!!!

Scott Norton

Epic Win, I push limit
Guy's calm down.......I know this is important but

:rolleyes: Look I know we are all competitive! I am to a fault. Hell if we were racing washing machines I would have mine apart right now figuring out what washers, etc. I could do without so I would be lighter. Seriously I am way over the top.

But this is supposed to be fun!:)

The pit stop window is going to be up to 30 minutes. This is one of the few things that teams have to use for strategy

It will be a train playing follow the leader if not allowed some variables...come on it is racing not checkers

The karts aren't all exactly equal, it's the nature of things. Some will be better than others, some worse. I don't think Walker is going to put a piece of crap out there though.

I was there last weekend and ran every session I was in with 2 of my teammates as well as the track hot shoe. He said some of the karts are better in some ways then others. But each has its strong and weak suit. It is UP to the DRIVER/TEAM to figure out what that is. There are a few things you can do to change the handling and I am not going to tell you what those are.:p
Apex will put out the 10 most equal karts they have and that is all we can ask for.

People are welcome to take this as seriously as they want, but this event was organized not for profit as a way to get together and have fun first and foremost, and do some good for the workers at the same time, and as such, there will be no whining allowed.

Exactly! That's what I am sayin!;)

BTW, Rod told me he had to turn down a ton of guys who wanted to run because the roster was full. We should feel lucky we are allowed to play with our friends for a good cause during the offseason.
 

westipton

Well-known member
Well if they give us their 10 best then that is all we can ask for. If we do get a bum kart we need to know who to go to and how we get it replaced as quickly as possible though, because it is very likely that it will happen to at least one of the teams.
I'm looking foward to some serious fun as you are Scott, but the equality issue is very important, so please iron that out for us man.
 

Scott Norton

Epic Win, I push limit
Well if they give us their 10 best then that is all we can ask for. If we do get a bum kart we need to know who to go to and how we get it replaced as quickly as possible though, because it is very likely that it will happen to at least one of the teams.
I'm looking foward to some serious fun as you are Scott, but the equality issue is very important, so please iron that out for us man.


I am very confident after meeting the staff and Rod down there that they will do they're best for us.
It's like life sometimes it just is not fair. Give me a bummer kart and I will be bummed out no question. But I am also a realist. Besides Mr. Penske is not going to call up gray haired old men for a contract based on a local karting enduro.
I know, I know hard to believe huh?:p
But really you can't expect them to take the karts and dyno them, equip them with new tires, ect. It is a business that would be cost prohibitive.

If you want that kind of equality you have to go to one of those $1500+ "Fly and Drive" karting things.
 

jeffhanken

Well-known member
you guys that dont think you can run 30 min, is crazy. I have ran 30 minute stints in a cart before and im not in the best shape (just shy of 280):) this is supposed to make it challenging. I know i cant wait to run with you guys. As a corner worker i have watch alot of you guys at the track and admire all you guys can do with a car. I have done drivers school but dont have the funds to play at the track. this is my oppertunity to race with some of the best the northwest has to offer. Cant wait!
 

westipton

Well-known member
I am simply asking that the bum kart be withdrawn and replaced rather than a team being stuck with it for 2 hours, but nobody seems to hear what I'm saying. That is easy enough to do by picking a hand signal of some sort and having the staff respond to that. They can look and listen and determine if they feel it needs to come in. If so they can ready an alternate machine and bring in the bad one for a quick change - problem solved.
If this were a cheap date sort of race I wouldn't care, but I'm not paying 100 bucks only to get stuck with a lemon that no one wants to deal with.
Okay, I have beaten the dead horse enough, and he isn't even twitching anymore, so let's massage this one little issue and move on!
I will be happy to help define this solution if you want to email me at openwheel27@hotmail.com.
Over and out
 

Rod Powell

Shake N Bake Baby
Wes, in the event a car is truly a turd, I think it will be a simple matter of pulling in the pits and siganlling to the marshals you need a talk.

We will have five spares available for mechanical swapouts, so if it turns out the car is defective then there is no problem.

I will be the first to admit each cart has different handling characterics, which will have to be adapted to by each driver to stay on pace.

I have not run into any as of yet that are truly inferior, I chalk this up to their relative newness (the facility is only 8 months old).

RP
 

Randy Blaylock

Highlander Motorsports
The deadline for team confirmation is 5 p.m., 1/21/09. Teams not confirmed by this time and date will be replaced without notice by a team or teams currently on a wait list. All teams are confirmed, thank you.

Confirmation consists of any one person from each team assuming the role of team captain, and assuming on their word, the responsibility for the team entry fee in whole. Entry fee is due in full, whether the team has a full roster, or shows up at the track at all.

Teams confirmed to date are;

Team #1, Team Captain Dave Haire

Team #2, Team Captain Patrick Boyle

Team #3, Team Captain Kyle Nickles

Team #4, Team Captain Scott Norton

Team #5, Team Captain Michael Conatore

Team #6, Team Captain Curtis Creager

Team #7, Team Captain Pro7racer

Team #8, Team Captain Scott Haun

Team #9, Team Captain Wes Tipton

Team #10, Team Captain "Holeshot" Hanken
__________________


Teams are welcome to substitute or excuse members at their discretion at any time except for the team captain, who again has the responsibility for the team entry fee in whole. Teams are not required to have 6 drivers, only a minimum of 2 drivers. Entry fee will not be reduced for teams with less than 6 drivers.

We have a large wait list of people in the case that a team wants or needs additional members.

That is all.
 
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westipton

Well-known member
Thank you Rod, I appreciate your response. I like the fact that it is a new facility and everything is fairly fresh at this point. The kart I drove last Sunday was quick and responsive, and I assume they will all be that way, until Jeff brings his in all smoking and bent up!!
Can I confirm here that I will Captain team #9 and that we are definitely in?
 

Randy Blaylock

Highlander Motorsports
You may indeed, thank you.

Team Captains, please poll your roster members to verify their attendance, and if you have a drop out, or a member with a possibility of a conflict, let us know as we have several waiting list folks chomping at the bit to be involved.
 

michael_conatore

I love endurance racing!
Hi Guys,

I just want to make my plug for 15 minute stops. I think that more fun will be had by more people if we all do 15 minute stops. I can tell you that there are PLENTY of other strategic elements, and this will NOT be a "train". There will be lots of competition, and it will be a blast. 30 is do-able by almost everyone I can think of, but there will be more pain involved. Why not do 15 and spare ourselves some of the pain. I believe that if 30 is a choice, then the team or teams that do 30 will always beat the team or teams that do 15, so anyone who really wants to win will do 30.

On the topic of the karts, in my 8 - 10 sessions, I have driven several different karts. They do differ, but none are total dogs. They have different characteristics, and I have been within a second on all of them. I think that if we tried to do kart changes every 15 it would be unworkable. My sense is that Walker and his crew will have all of the karts in good running order, and the differences between each will be relatively minor.

This is going to be a lot of fun! I am really looking forward to the event! Again, I think we should make it a 15 minute stint though, as 30 will be painful and will win over 15.

Thanks for reading.

Best,
Mike
 

westipton

Well-known member
Mike, those that choose to do 30 will find themselves a LOT slower in the last 15 than the first, so the gap between 15teeners and 30minuters may not be all that big. Of course that comment comes from a large guy who breaks into tears at the thought of 30 minutes! 2 hours in the M3? No sweat. 30 minutes in a kart, yikes!
A pit stop if rehearesed beforehand could be as quick as 15 or 20 seconds, if you are slow and deliberate with the seat belt. So the pit strategy will be quite fun to watch.
 

OlyWalker

Member
Addressing some issues

Hi All,

I thought I should maybe address some of these issues from our point of view, and then, since Rod is the promoter, I'll defer any rule changes to him.

The reason that we have the neck brace rule is because when we don't have enough neck braces to give one to everyone. Our only experience with these events is the 4 hour charity races that we do for charity. The vast majority of the drivers are not "professionals" and do not have their own equipment. Personally I don't care if you use your own neck braces. But those teams that have their own will have an advantage over those teams that don't.

The karts will be as close to the same as we can make them. All valves will be lashed to .008 cold (intake and exhaust). Front wheel alignments will be the same (0"). Tires will all have the same air pressure to start the race. Tire life will be checked (ensure that wear indicators are visible). If we've noticed that the rear tires are heat soaked (poor grip) they'll be replaced. Other than that, they'll be what they'll be.

Please check my earlier post about kart exchanges for *mechanical* problems. Once exchanged, the team has to live with the replacement until the next fuel stop.

Here's something to consider: Some people like their karts to be "loose". Some like them "tight". Just because one member of the team doesn't perform well in a particular kart, it doesn't mean that other members of the team won't perform well. Every kart *does* have a personality. How you deal with that personality is up to you.

Walker
 
I drive approximately 15 races each week at Apex. I can say without hesitation that once I feel out what a kart does, my times between different karts rarely differ by more than a couple tenths. When they do it is usually a tire pressure issue which Walker has confirmed will be checked. The karts were even more closely bunched time wise for the 4 hour enduro last month and I know their mechanic will go through the same procedures for this race. You all have enough talent and experience to figure the kart out and make it fast. I would not worry about it. Kart condition did not play a part in our enduro, talent and minimal mistakes won out. As the guy who has driven more races and more karts than anyone at Apex, I can say the karts are not all the same but they are all fast if you drive what you have. (ie don't drive a tight car loose or the reverse) Trust these guys, they will be good. I can't wait to watch this race.

Tony S
 

Rod Powell

Shake N Bake Baby
Hi All,

I thought I should maybe address some of these issues from our point of view, and then, since Rod is the promoter, I'll defer any rule changes to him.

The reason that we have the neck brace rule is because when we don't have enough neck braces to give one to everyone. Our only experience with these events is the 4 hour charity races that we do for charity. The vast majority of the drivers are not "professionals" and do not have their own equipment. Personally I don't care if you use your own neck braces. But those teams that have their own will have an advantage over those teams that don't.

The karts will be as close to the same as we can make them. All valves will be lashed to .008 cold (intake and exhaust). Front wheel alignments will be the same (0"). Tires will all have the same air pressure to start the race. Tire life will be checked (ensure that wear indicators are visible). If we've noticed that the rear tires are heat soaked (poor grip) they'll be replaced. Other than that, they'll be what they'll be.

Please check my earlier post about kart exchanges for *mechanical* problems. Once exchanged, the team has to live with the replacement until the next fuel stop.

Here's something to consider: Some people like their karts to be "loose". Some like them "tight". Just because one member of the team doesn't perform well in a particular kart, it doesn't mean that other members of the team won't perform well. Every kart *does* have a personality. How you deal with that personality is up to you.

Walker

Walker, thanks for the forgiveness on the neck braces, I meant to call and discuss yesterday but kind of forgot ;)

So, let us have a bit of a discussion here on the use of neck braces. We want this to be fair for all, so if we can have team captains stand up and be heard on how many drivers have their own, we can discern if having the neck brace on prior to getting in the cart will be a fair point for competition.

Sinply put, if each team can guarantee that each driver will have a neck brace on and fastened, we can waive the rule that it has to be put on while doing a driver change. Fair enough?

Having said that, if we do not have enought neck braces and one or two teams have to share, therefore having to wait for their drivers to come in, then we all have to wait for the drivers to come in.

As an aside, if neck brace sharing becomes a necessity, the perhaps someone can design an el cheapo neck sock? That way you can save your sweat exchanges for high fives and belly slams in the paddock :eek::eek:

Make sense?

RP

(PS Walker, better use that term loosely, promoter, as it implies I know what is going on and how to manage it. I don't, and I hope nobody here thinks I have a clue. We just thought this up over lunch and beers one day)
 
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Scott Norton

Epic Win, I push limit
Thanks!

Hi All,
I thought I should maybe address some of these issues from our point of view, and then, since Rod is the promoter, I'll defer any rule changes to him.

Personally I don't care if you use your own neck braces.

The karts will be as close to the same as we can make them. Other than that, they'll be what they'll be.

Every kart *does* have a personality. How you deal with that personality is up to you.
Walker

+1
Thanks Walker for your willingness to work on the neck brace issue. As Team Captain I will contact my teammates and get back to Rod ASAP.

I am sure your team will do a fine job with the karts.

The vast majority of the drivers are not "professionals"
I would watch how you throw that term around I know I have never received a check yet.;)

RP

(PS Walker, better use that term loosely, promoter, as it implies I know what is going on and how to manage it. I don't, and I hope nobody here thinks I have a clue. We just thought this up over lunch and beers one day)
The best way! That's how all the sprint car race promoters do it and most of them don't know a thing.:p
 

Scott Norton

Epic Win, I push limit
Neck braces

Everyone on Team #4 has a neck brace of they're own or are borrowing one from a friend.

That will free up 1 of Apex's neck braces for other teams.
 
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ashisv

80% stiffer
...we can discern if having the neck brace on prior to getting in the cart will be a fair point for competition.

Sinply put, if each team can guarantee that each driver will have a neck brace on and fastened, we can waive the rule that it has to be put on while doing a driver change. Fair enough?

What if we negate any advantage from using our own neck brace by simply putting it on after we have sat down in the kart? Then it should make no difference if the sweaty neck brace is exchanged or if you're using your own.
 

michael_conatore

I love endurance racing!
What if we negate any advantage from using our own neck brace by simply putting it on after we have sat down in the kart? Then it should make no difference if the sweaty neck brace is exchanged or if you're using your own.

Ashisv has a good solution that keeps this very simple. Neck braces cannot be put on until the person is sitting in the kart. That way, it is equal whether you are using your own neck brace or Apex's neck brace.

From a sweat perspective, I now wish I hadn't given my horse collar away a few months ago! I bought a HANS last summer, and never thought I would need the collar again! Oh well.....guess I will have to wear my balaclava to mitigate the "sweat transfer"......
 
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