IRDC Marketing Idea - Time Trials/Time Attack during Driver Training Days?

[MrMoody]

Any thoughts on a single session at the end of a DT day set aside for a Time Trial? It could be open to all approved drivers from that day's driving event. The warm-up/practice will have been done throughout the day.

A big unknown would be the transponder issue. There would have to be some sort of rental program set up I'd think. I'm also not opposed to having a work/run schedule either.

 

[Bill Bonsell]

I'd like to jump in here just a bit since I am currently participating in SCCA Track Trials and also just completed the latest IRDC driving school. I know the local NWR SCCA had a very active time trial program which has certainly fallen off when looking at results from years back. The current time trial program consists of rally, club trials and track trials and hillclimbs I think? I will be doing the SCCA weekend at Bremerton ast the end of August running T&T Friday and full track trials Saturday and Sun.

I do think it is possible to place a track trial class into a weekend schedule. You might have to cut 5 mins off of practice and qualifying sessions and maybe even 5 mins off a race, but it can be done. And if it actually helps swell the ranks of W2W racers, I would think it would be a good thing. NWR SCCA is in a tight spot because of losing all the Pacific dates when SCCA national pulled the sanctioning of Pacific. Once dates are lost, they are hard to recover, regardless of the cost of Pacific over Bremerton. I would absolutely jump at the chance to run Pacific in a track trial class. Transponders and all and yes they do send out the entire TT field at once. Other than restrictions on passing, they are a blast. One practices, qualifies, grids according to qualifying and then run like hell for 25 mins. Best lap time in class wins. You need a race prepped car, full safety gear. It is indeed a stepping stone to W2W racing. After 6 successful TT's with SCCA, you get a novice road racing license.

In some ways, I wish NWR SCCA and Conference could run joint events. And contrary to an earlier posting, I have found the people involved with local SCCA to be just as fantastic and generous as the members of IRDC/Conference I have met. I do think enlarged grids appeal to everyone. No one wants to be running alone on the track lap after lap.

I extend an invite to any Conference racer wishing to head to Bremerton August 28th for the Double Regional. Or to anyone wishing to experience a PDX or Club Trial on Friday.

Regards everyone.....

Bill

 

[westipton]

The Conference driving schools seem to have attracted record numbers of students the last few years, but that didn't translate to a ton of new racers either.
Whether it be TT people or the average track day guy with a hot car, they all seem pretty content to just run around for the day enjoying their car, and 95% of them go no further. The lapping idea is not that many years old, and works well, so if the TT folks were to be included in an already tight schedule that might be the fit for them.
If the lappers knew their spots were being taken by the TT guys, they might step it up a notch and join that group, which is one step closer to actual racing.
I often wonder if it's the money issue, the competition factor or the fear of the unknown that keeps people from taking that final step to what we all enjoy and take for granted. If they only knew how much fun it is and how easy it is to get started I think there would be much greater participation. But then I wonder how you effectively go about convincing them of that fact?

 

[Bill Bonsell]

Great comments Wes...
So why don't more TT'rs or IRDC Driving school graduates move into the W2W stuff. I think money can be the factor, but one doesn't have to do 10 events a year either. I would think most of us can handle the 500-750 cost of a weekend. Having just completed the IRDC driving school I have a couple of comments. Lets assume that some participants are there just to learn how to be a better driver. And some are there to hone their lapping day or DE skills. And then there might be some who are very, very close to going W2W racing. They might have the car pretty close to race worthy. They may be soooo close. All they needed was to have other racers at the driving school really go out of their way to "sell" them on the idea of going racin'. Push them if you will. If the purpose of the school is to ultimately to grow racers, then a little lobbying of those looking into Conference racing would be beneficial. I know I would have responded to anything which would have encouraged me to get my 61 year old ass in the race grid!

Bill

 

[Steve Adams]

If you've got a car that's that close to racing, you don't need someone to sell you on the idea of racing.

IMO, there are two classes of people who come to the schools with the thought of racing, who then don't: 1) people for whom the cost is an issue, but who want to take the school anyway to pretend that it's not; and 2) people who like the idea of being a racing driver but for whom the reality of being on track in that environment seems a little overwhelming.

But I think the biggest group of people who come to schools, and this is totally based on my own anecdotal evidence as an instructor, is made up of people who were given the school as a gift or are otherwise out "for a lark." A conversation about the fun of racing might nab some tiny percentage of those people, but most of them are just out for the fun of the day. I think even quite a few of the people who say they're there for the race school in prep of starting racing don't really mean it, they just WANT to mean it (if you get my point).

 

[dick_boggs]

A very interesting thread and great discussion, current IRDC driver schools break even or are subsizided by the lappers. The TT insurance issue can be overcome with money. Are there enough drivers to cost/justify it within a drivers school at PIR? I don't know? You need some hard numbers and signature committment. At the last IRDC general meeting we had our annual rule change meeting. We had 14 drivers there to propose and vote on rule/structure changes. Those that vote, vote for those that don't. I don't know the exact number of drivers we have at IRDC, I think its around 170? Where were the other drivers with changes like this in mind? The strength of your Club and Conference is in your ability (drivers) to propose rule/structure changes. Good ideas always fly.

 

[tobybasiliko]

Regarding the Seattle track days, I have never understood why there aren't more.

2 reasons- track rental is blindingly expensive, and available days are thin on the ground.

It's a big gamble, and as Ken says above, 'volunteer personnel are hard to find'.
Most of the people who do the actual work for a race weekend are stretched pretty thin.

If a corps of organizers showed up at a board meeting with hands and plans, I think this
idea would get some traction. Without either, I can't see adding work to the people who
already work their buns off...

t

 

[westipton]

During the 4 years I ran the IRDC schol I always asked up front how many people in the class were going racing. One year I saw no hands go up, but usually it was half of the group or more who said yes.
The reality of course is that only a few move on each year after the school regardless of how many say they will, and that never seems to change.
It is a big committment in both dollars and time for everyone, and apparently it's still a bit overwhelming for some folks. It takes a competitve, motivated person to do this sport, and while money holds back a lot of the younger people, a lack of confidence seems to hold back the older guys and gals from what I've seen and heard. Sorta like going to jump school and then never actually going up in the plane, or getting up there and muttering to yourself, "what was I thinking?"
It confuses me also that the midwest and east are crowded with racers, and their tracks are usually packed on club racing week-ends. Perhaps our uncertain weather holds people back as well. (?)
Like Dick said, now is the time to submit rules changes and propose new strategies. I do think that the low turn-out for voting and the small and minor changes we've seen over the last half dozen year with our rules is a testiment to how well Conference is working presently.

 

[Richard Broadhead]

It confuses me also that the midwest and east are crowded with racers, and their tracks are usually packed on club racing week-ends. Perhaps our uncertain weather holds people back as well. (?)

Wes,

Although SCCA National racing is tough to use as a comparision as to how ICSCC is doing, I think we are holding our own.

What do we average, over 200 entry's per event (yes some are running double run groups). If you look at SCCA Nationals, they are pulling in between 100 and 150 entry's per race.

Plus the over all total National race participation has fallen off over the past 20 years from a high of 11,800 to between 9 and 10 thousand a year since 2000.

National entry's by division and class through June:

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club_Events/2009 National Participation MASTER_JUNE.pdf

Considering they hold 46 National races to draw 10,000 entry's, I think ICSCC is doing just GREAT getting about 2,600 to 3,000 entry's in 13 races

Regardless of where drivers go after the ICSCC school, it is without a DOUBT the best training program for road racing there is. Whatever changes are proposed, don't let it mess up the schools!

 

[Lance Richert]

I think our Novice program is that perfect "in between" lapping and full on racing. That's how we market it through the BMW ranks (LOL, knowing they'll get sucked in). Novices are not thrown into the deep end with senior drivers, and everyone is out there testing the waters to see if they like this racing thing, many being in rental cars it seems.

Another hurdle I hear is that it's not the right time in their life to spend the time and money on the sport. Just starting a family, or putting kids through school, etc.

An interesting statistic would be to know how many licensed drivers ICSCC has had for the last x-amount of years (growing or shrinking?) and the overall entry count for the combined 12 or 13 race season, year to year.

 

[westipton]

My point Rich was the fact that SCCA around here is obviously not very strong as it is elsewhere in the country. Conference definitely holds it own with the numbers we see every season, but our few hundred licensed drivers pales in comparison to the thousands in the other regions.
The mid west continues to be the hot bed of amateur road racing and I assume that can be chalked up to the number of great tracks they have to play on.
The question I get the most from people around here is, "you guys actually race in the rain?" Which goes to show how unfamiliar most are about our particular sport.
I wonder if the new USF1 team will eventually generate more interest in road racing from Americans? That and getting F1 back here could really change things for the better.

 

[clintonracing]

It is a big committment in both dollars and time for everyone, and apparently it's still a bit overwhelming for some folks.

Which is the beauty of TT -- You can drive your TT prepped car to the track (keeping cost low). With only requiring a roll bar, people can keep the full interiors in the car. So you take a baby step by adding a roll bar, take another baby step by getting the PPE, and you are ready to roll. This is exactly how I used TT as a ladder.

I think our Novice program is that perfect "in between" lapping and full on racing.

I have to respectfully disagree, Lance, based on my own experience... maybe I am in the minority. TT was the perfect baby step, because I didn't have to invest a big chunk of money at one time. I had the car I wanted to play with. Made a partial investment to go to TT, then completed the car to go W2W (without going into debt )when I was ready.

 

[clintonracing]

My point Rich was the fact that SCCA around here is obviously not very strong as it is elsewhere in the country. Conference definitely holds it own with the numbers we see every season, but our few hundred licensed drivers pales in comparison to the thousands in the other regions.
The mid west continues to be the hot bed of amateur road racing and I assume that can be chalked up to the number of great tracks they have to play on.
The question I get the most from people around here is, "you guys actually race in the rain?" Which goes to show how unfamiliar most are about our particular sport.
I wonder if the new USF1 team will eventually generate more interest in road racing from Americans? That and getting F1 back here could really change things for the better.

Nah, but more Garth Stein book signings might help!

 

[mikecolangelo]

Great comments Wes...
So why don't more TT'rs or IRDC Driving school graduates move into the W2W stuff. I think money can be the factor, but one doesn't have to do 10 events a year either. I would think most of us can handle the 500-750 cost of a weekend. Having just completed the IRDC driving school I have a couple of comments. Lets assume that some participants are there just to learn how to be a better driver. And some are there to hone their lapping day or DE skills. And then there might be some who are very, very close to going W2W racing. They might have the car pretty close to race worthy. They may be soooo close. All they needed was to have other racers at the driving school really go out of their way to "sell" them on the idea of going racin'. Push them if you will. If the purpose of the school is to ultimately to grow racers, then a little lobbying of those looking into Conference racing would be beneficial. I know I would have responded to anything which would have encouraged me to get my 61 year old ass in the race grid.
Bill

Bill, I think 61 was the average age of today's Group 5 grid. And they kicked my butt! (I had a blast, though!)

I did 3 years of HPDE/lapping days before going through the novice racer program this year. W2W racing is so much more fun than anything I did on the track before. You really owe it to yourself to give it a shot.

Finish off your car and get that first novice race done at PIR or Pacific next month. You'll need a physical, too. The Conference Novice Racer program is very welcoming and instructive. I really think you'll like it. At least give it a try. Email me if you have any questions.

 

[Karen Stimson]

FYI
The Cascade driver training days (most of which precede our hosted ICSCC races) are packed days. We run 4 groups, starting with:
Novice group recon track tour;
4 groups--4 2-min. sessions each group
(Novice school, Advanced School, and lower and upper HPDE/lapping);
1 hour lunch during which instructors may drive for 1/2 hour;
a 15-25 min. Open-wheel session (to give OW racers a chance to prep before the race);
AND a simulated race start for potential race license seekers.

Except for March we are almost always close to full or overfull. There is no way to add another element into this format.

Now, if you have run time trials and wish to enlighten me about how they work, please contact me by email and I'll send you my home phone # (GraceRacing99@yahoo.com)
If I know what's involved, I may be able to add some constructive brainstorming to the scheduling of our events.
We do have a half-day HPDE event preceding the fall enduro which could potentially be something else.

Sounds like someone should involve our ICSCC insurance advisor, Scott Adare, in this discussion.

 

[kyle_nickels]

Ken,
You are truely a unique and creative fella. I know an agent you can trust if you put more verses on it and write music for your lyrics.

 

[clintonracing]

I think that it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that a TT inclusion to the DT confusion is merely a delusion.

As usual -- You continue to have a "No because" rather than "Yes if" type of attitude. Gotta love it.

 

[MrMoody]

Which is the beauty of TT -- You can drive your TT prepped car to the track (keeping cost low). With only requiring a roll bar, people can keep the full interiors in the car. So you take a baby step by adding a roll bar, take another baby step by getting the PPE, and you are ready to roll. This is exactly how I used TT as a ladder.

BINGO! I have a car that fits this description. I don't have the cash to turn it into a "full" race car, nor do I have the cash for a dedicated tow vehicle, or a trailer. Nor do I have a place to park said truck and trailer. There's also the commitment thing. At this point, I can't commit to a full schedule of racing, but easing into it this way would allow me to increase that schedule and at the same time prepare myself for going W2W racing in the future. I do understand that I may be in the vast minority though, so it could wind up being unrealistic.

If I know what's involved, I may be able to add some constructive brainstorming to the scheduling of our events.
We do have a half-day HPDE event preceding the fall enduro which could potentially be something else.

I've been to a few of the Conference schools and they're the best track events I've been to. Back when I ran with SoCal NASA they would run the TT with the "HPDE 4" class, which would translate to the Advanced HPDE in conference. Perhaps something can be done there?

 

[tobybasiliko]

As usual -- You continue to have a "No because" rather than "Yes if" type of attitude. Gotta love it.

...if you know what it takes to get the average race weekend together and how hard everyone works
to pull it off, you start to realize how little excess capacity most of the clubs have...
tiny margins that would make most 'executives' run away in panic, 'just in time'
staffing that would make the most marginal company proud...

so to reiterate, if you show up at an IRDC board meeting with a coherent plan
and bodies to pull it off, I'm sure you'll get a warm reception. Asking
for more requires giving more...

t

 

[FFRSpec72]

I've been to a few of the Conference schools and they're the best track events I've been to. Back when I ran with SoCal NASA they would run the TT with the "HPDE 4" class, which would translate to the Advanced HPDE in conference. Perhaps something can be done there?

Just coming from NASA texas region the TT were run separate, but all HPDE were run as 1 session but I agree that the HPDE 4 and TTs would also make a good group, only issue would be the traffic.