If you are not yet using a HANS device.....

Where ever there is a solid object I would presume. Cars can partially spin pitching them in different directions than intended for the track. Remember Dale E crash he was traveling parallel to the wall before losing the rear, then went head in to the wall.
Seattle lots of trees, banks, concrete walls, Portland has concrete walls, Spokane has hard objects walls, Mission raceway has walls all over esp coming onto the straight. ORP has the pit wall but other than that its mostly just some rocks and open country. I don't think you can predict exactly how a car is going to hit a wall even if the intended direction of travel is at a safe angle.
 
Once upon a time, I watch Monte Shelton coming down the front straight at Portland before the whole thing was lined with concrete. I found out later that a half shaft had broken while at high speed. The car looked like it turned hard left and spun hitting a gate post backwards. The care was launched 30 feet into the air and the fuel cell almost made it into the pond drivers left between turns 3 and 4. Things can break and control goes out the window. What you hit then depends on where the part broke.
 
Correct Randy, as the entire nose of my car is a crushable structure of honeycomb aluminum the chances of my car rapidly decelerating in a frontal crash are greatly reduced. In addition I can only think of three places where concrete walls are present on the outside radius of corners where I race, none of which are particularly high speed.

The tragedy at Dayton required, a tight grouping of cars at high speed, a bump in the rear, a second bump just prior to impact, a loose race harness, and a cement wall immediately adjacent to the outside radius of the race track. Five events in the correct sequence at precisely the right time. If any part of the sequence is interrupted or slightly altered the outcome is different.

Risk management is basically weighing the chances of an event occurring against the severity of the outcome, at which time the risk is deemed acceptable, or it needs to be mitigated. In the case above NASCAR first started policing proper use of belts, mandated safe barriers, redesigned their chassis, and required HANS devices.....
 
Boy howdy, this is more spirited than I have seen in some time, although I admit I don't visit much anymore.
I hate the word 'mandate', because it also reminds me of governmental control, which I detest with a passion. However, I have been known to be a bit superstitious at times, and not wearing one the last few years has made me feel a little spooked as if I'm pushing my luck, so I will be purchasing one soon out of common sense and self preservation, not because someone tells me I must do it.
The helmet rule is debatable, and the seat belt rule is totally absurd and unnecessary, but those are here to stay, as will the HANS mandate that will be appearing in our rulebook soon enough.
 
Cool video but no it is a roll over not a frontal impact resulting in a rapid deceleration event.

Glad you could join us Wes
 
No, that one doesn't count Ken. A rollover doesn't really have the same forward G's needed for the Hans to become a life-saver. As you may remember, I put a car up an over, and slammed it flat onto
its roof at Port Orford in Sept '95. No HANS at that time obviously. Quite an impact on the roof, even flattening the front of the roll-cage a bit. But came out of it without soreness, or bruises anywhere
because most of the momentum was dissipated sliding down the track on the roof.

That said, the most likely way a HANS would be needed/useful may have been seen in a formula car (if I remember correctly) crash at PIR, where he clipped the tire barriers at T12, and was spun to the left
directly into the concrete wall immediately across pit-out (south paddock) from the T12 station. My recollection is that was pre-HANS devices, and that the driver was severely injured, and that in
response PIR changed its turn 12 configuration. I don't know whether a HANS device would have helped. I wasn't ther and can only vaguely remember hearing of the incident, and don't even know what
the drivers injuries were.
 
Got some big air a couple of times on my own throughout the years......seems like a workable solution would be to shave it down a bit
 
greg_coffin said:
So I will repeat, does anyone know of any existing track conditions were a high deceleration event can occur?
Click to expand...

Last spring/summer at PIR a BMW hit the cement wall head on at turn 8 at an ICSCC event. Totally caved in the front of his car. He hit so hard the concrete barrier moved 4 feet! He walked away, crediting his HANs with saving his life. I'm sorry I don't remember his name. I do remember it being brought up at the driver's meeting.

Looking at the car I thought it was amazing he survived.
 
The Bimmer hit just prior to the track crossing opening in the wall at PIR turn 8. Another few feet and he might have hit the end post that anchors the cables in the fencing. The wall gave some, but that post isn't going to be as forgiving.
 
Sgt.Gator said:
... He walked away, crediting his HANs with saving his life.
Click to expand...

This is belief based evidence, not truly hard data. Without the actual G data, we don't really know whether the impact was hard enough (in terms of actual G deceleration forces in the necessary direction) for the HANs to have played a significant role in the driver's positive outcome.

However, it does provide an example of where and when a HANs might have been a factor. I happen to wear a HANs because SCCA required me to buy one and use it in order to do a couple of their races that I wanted to do. Once I had been forced to buy it, I figured I might as well use it in conference as well.
 
kbsmith1 said:
...... Without the actual G data, we don't really know whether the impact was hard enough (in terms of actual G deceleration forces in the necessary direction) for the HANs to have played a significant role in the driver's positive outcome......
Click to expand...

Well, we don't have the G force data from the Dale Sr. wreck either. But I think it's fair to conclude by observation that the LACK of a HANS device played a roll in the outcome.

Point is, it's better to not really know for sure then to be dead.
 
Well assuming worst case scenario of a 80 mph hit, perpendicular to the barrier, with a 2 ft 80-0 deceleration event the force exerted by a 15 lbs head is 360 lbs. or about 1/2 the force at which a basilar skull fracture will occur. Looks like all that crash testing that the government (sorry Wes) mandated years ago works even on the race track.

Of course the above is a worst case, in actuality every degree away from a 90 impact reduces the force in the critical plane as does the fact that the head travels in an arc not a straight line, not to mention that the vehicle in question had more than likely already scrubbed of some speed.

In the above example, again ignoring that the head travels in an arc, not a straight line........a deceleration event of 140 to 0 would just touch the danger zone.
 
Earnhart broke 6 ribs, and bent the steering wheel.......if your race harness is not secure...... a HANS does not work.
 
True dat Greg, Dale died from blunt trauma to his face as it hit the steering wheel caused by a shoulder belt failure. I believe that was what I read years ago, and the Hans would not have saved him per the results I reviewed. I know nothing about critical planes or my head travelling in an arc instead of a straight line, but after 50 + years of Conference racing, and only 3 deaths that I can recall, I'd say the hysteria over the Hans is a bit much.
We do not have high speed tracks out here like RA or Atlanta, and the impact zones if you screw up are minimal compared to those big tracks. However, why tempt fate for less than 6 bills?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top