How many races is too many?

One other factor to keep in mind if you are going to consider points as a motivator for this year: The double-points race early in the season.
For those who could not make that race or who did poorly, that may have killed their motivation to run for points instantly in race 3.

Comparing this year to others is not apples-to-apples.
 
I say let's have 15 races (three per 'racing' club). Each club can decide if they want three weekends, or two weekends with one double. Set the points structure to allow only 11 total for the championship. The drivers only get to keep a maximum of two races per venue and the 'kicker' event points must be the third event of their home track.

Or not. Just a thought.
 
Wrassling Itell-ya wrassling!!!

If I had a budget that would allow for it I would happily run every race in Conference, regardless of the number and if it counted towards point. I love to be out thereand love the thrill I get from the good and clean competition. Heck, I'd even race NASA ChumpCar, LeMons if I could too.

But I can't. Yet.

So for me, and many others, it is how many races CAN I afford to participate in. For the Clubs, it is how many can we hold and break-even on cost's, or slightly more so we can put money away for snowy days (maybe not even those, thinking of IRDC's Snow Race in 2009!!).
 
Mark, since 2002 the ICSCC rules for Championship points are only your best 10 races count and no more than 3 races can count at any one track.

This was put in because of so many races.

ICSCC did survey the drivers in the mid 90's and the vast majority of drivers wanted 8 to 12 Championship races with 10 being the most popular choice.
 
I like your line of thought Ken. Problem is word on the street is that NWMS doesn't draw enough entries to justify a third race, or hasn't in the past.

Everything in life is about incentive. How about this:

What if only two races at any given venue may count towards season championship points, and a maximum of ten races can be used for points total. Given five member clubs hosting races, for those that want to pursue a championship, this means that they must support each member club equally.

Or another way to look at it might be, a driver that wins a championship, in addition to the other factors involved in these things, has to also prove their versatility by being good at a wide variety of circuits.

With this arrangement, TC, SCCBC and NWMS, if they chose to do a double race format, would likely see a strong entry total, as the incentive for championship chasing drivers would be extremely high to attend this type of event to collect the two races worth of points in one swoop travel wise. If these clubs also wanted an additional third race in a single race weekend format, this would provide a hedge opportunity for those chasing championships to either improve their finish, or replace a DNF, and/or provide an opportunity to let market forces do their thing.

CSCC and IRDC would be likely to see two single race weekends with good turnout, and perhaps even a third race for championship contenders wanting to improve their finishing order.

Fort those that don't care about points, they can choose to race mostly at one venue, three times, four times, whatever. Let the market forces do their thing.

This schedule could be as streamlined as a 12 race season over 9 weekends. Isn't that enough, considering the stats on attendance? Wouldn't a 9 weekend schedule be attractive to most everyone, including the workers?

Is this a decent mix that allows the clubs in the core to let market forces decide their calendar, as well as contrivances that assist the clubs outside the core to also thrive?
 
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Take Randy's thought a step further and alter how the points are awarded in any given race (as has been proposed in the past) where the DNF goes away. In the lighter-attended classes, this helps to keep the field more competitive for points in the event of a DNF (as is now defined).

As for volunteer turn-out, if I'm not mistaken, NWMS started last year with recruiting local car clubs and enthusiasts to come on out to the track and participate. The goal was to create a strong local base of volunteers to help relieve the stress from our shrinking worker ranks. It's a solid idea and one that could be mobilized at other tracks (although, to some extent, this is already happening). I hope every driver out there listening is actively encouraging anyone interested in motorsports to come out and work a corner to experience something new and different...
 
ICSCC did survey the drivers in the mid 90's and the vast majority of drivers wanted 8 to 12 Championship races with 10 being the most popular choice.
I'm curious if that survey's results still hold true today. mikeolsen's data (that 40% of classes didn't have a single person who qualified for the championship last year) suggests that they don't.

I don't know if I'm typical, but in my case, requiring a large number of events to win a championship actually makes me run fewer races, not more. If I'm planning to do five races, but need six to qualify for a championship, I'll find a way to run a sixth. If I'm planning to do five races, but need ten to qualify for a championship, I have no extra incentive to run a sixth race since I'd need many more on top of it.
 
Don't underestimate the truly random, either- I've run a 'championship' season for 6 years, but didn't this year for family reasons...

Ideal number of races? One every weekend, so I can pick and choose!

Practically, there are really only 2 concerns-

can the clubs make money, and

will the volunteers survive? That's corner workers, stewards, race chairs, tech stewards, everyone.

As long as those 2 criteria continue to be met, then there's no real reason not to.

Except, of course, if it stops being fun.


That's why I took a year 'off' and only showed up with the car once.

my '02 (it's green)

t
 
I like your line of thought Ken. Problem is word on the street is that NWMS doesn't draw enough entries to justify a third race, or hasn't in the past.

Everything in life is about incentive. How about this:

What if only two races at any given venue may count towards season championship points, and a maximum of ten races can be used for points total. Given five member clubs hosting races, for those that want to pursue a championship, this means that they must support each member club equally.

Or another way to look at it might be, a driver that wins a championship, in addition to the other factors involved in these things, has to also prove their versatility by being good at a wide variety of circuits.

With this arrangement, TC, SCCBC and NWMS, if they chose to do a double race format, would likely see a strong entry total, as the incentive for championship chasing drivers would be extremely high to attend this type of event to collect the two races worth of points in one swoop travel wise. If these clubs also wanted an additional third race in a single race weekend format, this would provide a hedge opportunity for those chasing championships to either improve their finish, or replace a DNF, and/or provide an opportunity to let market forces do their thing.

CSCC and IRDC would be likely to see two single race weekends with good turnout, and perhaps even a third race for championship contenders wanting to improve their finishing order.

Fort those that don't care about points, they can choose to race mostly at one venue, three times, four times, whatever. Let the market forces do their thing.

This schedule could be as streamlined as a 12 race season over 9 weekends. Isn't that enough, considering the stats on attendance? Wouldn't a 9 weekend schedule be attractive to most everyone, including the workers?

Is this a decent mix that allows the clubs in the core to let market forces decide their calendar, as well as contrivances that assist the clubs outside the core to also thrive?

Damn this sure makes a lot of sense. I hope the board and club reps read this.
 
My only real concern is the back-to-backs and back-to-back-to-backs.

It's hard enough to make my car last ONE weekend! Let alone trying to turn it around to do 2 weekends in a row. And forget about 3 weekends in a row.
 
I like your line of thought Ken. Problem is word on the street is that NWMS doesn't draw enough entries to justify a third race, or hasn't in the past.

Everything in life is about incentive. How about this:

What if only two races at any given venue may count towards season championship points, and a maximum of ten races can be used for points total. Given five member clubs hosting races, for those that want to pursue a championship, this means that they must support each member club equally.

Or another way to look at it might be, a driver that wins a championship, in addition to the other factors involved in these things, has to also prove their versatility by being good at a wide variety of circuits.

With this arrangement, TC, SCCBC and NWMS, if they chose to do a double race format, would likely see a strong entry total, as the incentive for championship chasing drivers would be extremely high to attend this type of event to collect the two races worth of points in one swoop travel wise. If these clubs also wanted an additional third race in a single race weekend format, this would provide a hedge opportunity for those chasing championships to either improve their finish, or replace a DNF, and/or provide an opportunity to let market forces do their thing.

CSCC and IRDC would be likely to see two single race weekends with good turnout, and perhaps even a third race for championship contenders wanting to improve their finishing order.

Fort those that don't care about points, they can choose to race mostly at one venue, three times, four times, whatever. Let the market forces do their thing.

This schedule could be as streamlined as a 12 race season over 9 weekends. Isn't that enough, considering the stats on attendance? Wouldn't a 9 weekend schedule be attractive to most everyone, including the workers?

Is this a decent mix that allows the clubs in the core to let market forces decide their calendar, as well as contrivances that assist the clubs outside the core to also thrive?

IMO - Randy has a very reasonable proposal here that would appeal to many drivers. I love the diversity of tracks offered in Conference, and would welcome a reduction in race weekends. I would wholeheartedly support double-race weekends as well.

-Bruce
 
I also like Randy’s proposal with one exception. Remove the minimum number of races part.

Just chase the point’s leader whether it is one race or fifteen then everyone has the equal chance at the championship.

Just because a racer can afford to race 3 or 4 races should not automaticly put them out of championship.

I think we would see more people attending races.

.02

John Rissberger
# 10 A/S Camaro Oregon
 
Dang it Randy. Yer just bound and determined to take the wrasslin out of it aint-cha. Hell- you even used a word I had look up in websters (contrivances).

Well thought out. Overall I like it.

John has a point too. Is there really a good reason to make the chase for a championship obtainable by everyone? I had a problem with this a couple years ago when I just had to run one more race, finish at least 3rd and I would have been champion. My car is not the fastest. I can either kill the engine after every couple races and place higher or go slower and place lower, do more races, and win by default. This isn't NASCAR or any professional series. If it was I would think differently. I have fun. I play safe. Thats all that matters to me.
 
One more thought to add to Randy's analysis.

["What if only two races at any given venue may count towards season championship points, and a maximum of ten races can be used for points total. Given five member clubs hosting races, for those that want to pursue a championship, this means that they must support each member club equally. "]

I see a problem with the possibility of a club (like NWMS) holding only one race weekend. If a person had an unsolvable conflict with that date (work issues for a 3-day weekend, death in the family, etc.), then their run for the championship ends right there--if anyone else is challenging him/her.

I'm not sure I see a simple fix--since the race isn't technically a requirement, although in a serious fight, it would be necessary.
 
I'm not sure I see a simple fix--since the race isn't technically a requirement, although in a serious fight, it would be necessary.

That serious fight you refer to happens every season in PRO3. Unless a racer is prepared to spend the time and money to run 10+ races (and unless you are Jeff Van Lierop, you need run 'em all!) you are not in contention for even fifth place. This year, I managed a 7th place finish overall in PRO3 and I attended 10 races. Had I made it to more races, I may have been able to better my points position (I didn't make it to ORP this year).

Having said that, I've got an informal survey going on with the PRO3 yahoo group and the results are rather consistent: we race for the fun, for the friendships, and for personal improvement. Points and the championship is a very minor reason, it would seem. Time and money are the limiting factors for the majority. This may not be representative of Conference; however, I do believe it is representative of PRO3.
 
Please, fewer races over fewer weekends!
Don’t get me wrong, I love it - but this year kinda turned into a grind. I was lucky to have my dad get stuff ready and loaded for the races. I know most people are not so lucky in the help department. I also have a flexible schedule, which many do not. In addition to the large number of races this year, it was made more difficult with the back to back races (and I don't even drive a Subaru) with large travel distances.
As for the "participant" workers, I don't know how they do it but I am sure glad they do. At some point we need to realize that there are limits to what you can ask or expect volunteers to do. More double race weekends seem to be a great partial solution. It worked well in Mission and other groups seem to make it work fine. Double race weekends and fewer races overall may do the trick.
On this forum, it appears most agree that some sort of reduction is in order. How does this get passed on to the decision makers? To be heard, where or to whom should I send a copy of this posting?
Mikey M.
 
I also like Randy’s proposal with one exception. Remove the minimum number of races part.

Just chase the point’s leader whether it is one race or fifteen then everyone has the equal chance at the championship.

Just because a racer can afford to race 3 or 4 races should not automaticly put them out of championship.

I think we would see more people attending races.

.02

John Rissberger
# 10 A/S Camaro Oregon

+1

Class champion should be the racer in that class with the highest number of points, regardless of the number of races run.
 
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