CSCC Enduros

...personally, I think the most unsafe racing thing I do every year is drive home from Spokane...
'cause Holly's right, a double- entry double- race weekend is a lot of work.

I actually (mildly) disagree with 'safety' as a criteria for the maximum length of stint-
I think it comes under the heading 'rules of the game'. So when you figure out how
the game works, and how you're going to play it
(usually with the goal of winning,
but there are a LOT of us who think FINISHING is a mighty goal, and more who think
HAVING A BLAST is even better)
you get to factor in driver stints, fuel load, fuel loading rate, and so forth.

So a 2 hour stint in a 6 hour race seems reasonable, but
a 4- hour stint in a 12 hour race doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Not that I'd ever
attempt it in my current fatuous condition...

heh.

t
 
Just ribbing my buddy Rick, which he deserves occasionally! He works hard I know that, but it's not work release!
I know nothing about past performance or any perceptions offered by others Dick, I was simply 'attempting' humor. How'd I do?
 
Giving Thanks for surviving this season of dangerous activities.

Again, safety is A criteria. It may not be the only criteria, nor even the highest priority to some, but a criteria it is, never the less.

The responsible parties that write the rules to the 'game' may have ideas that regard the cumulative capabilities of their potential market. This, to those participants, can provide for a level playing field allowing for some, perhaps significant, number of drivers/teams that may consider entering, but without the vast training, experience, knowledge, stamina, and confidence as others.

Perhaps that isn't an important consideration to those teams that would employ such a 'winning' formula/strategy as a few less driver changes. But to the host of the event, it may easily equate to a larger number of entries from our amateur rank and file.

The CSCC six hour, and SCCBC's 7 hr were like the local racing end-of-season 'harvest' festival. People were testing their own personal limits and having fun, even if they had to change a transmission, or a motor at the split at T8 to finish the event. Is it now pumped up to becoming a jumping off point for the THill 25, or dare I say, the Daytona 24?

I just want everybody to go home with all their fingers and all their tows. That includes myself, and the those in my charge, the CSCC Safety Team.

:) As well as wishing every one a Happy Thanksgiving opening the 2009 door to many more holiday celebrations. :)

Stay safe,
 
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Ken Killam said:
Again, safety is A criteria. It may not be the only criteria, nor even the highest priority to some, but a criteria it is, never the less.
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Completely in agreement with you here.

Ken Killam said:
The responsible parties that write the rules to the 'game' may have ideas that regard the cumulative capabilities of their potential market. This, to those participants, can provide for a level playing field allowing for some, perhaps significant, number of drivers/teams that may consider entering, but without the vast training, experience, knowledge, stamina, and confidence as others.

Perhaps that isn't an important consideration to those teams that would employ such a 'winning' formula/strategy as a few less driver changes. But to the host of the event, it may easily equate to a larger number of entries from our amateur rank and file.
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This, however, is a problem. EITHER it's a safety issue, pure and simple, OR it's about making the event "less competetive" (whatever that means) with the idea that we'll get more participants, as we'll get people who aren't intimidated by the "vast training, experience, knowledge, stamina, and confidence as others." (Again, whatever that means.)

If it's truly a safety issue and there's even a LITTLE data to back it up, fine. But if it's to enforce some sort of vaguely-defined idea about attracting more racers who don't want to actually, you know, race, then I suspect I'll be part of a large crowd that says "no, thanks."
 
How...who..."less competitive"... than what? I don't know what that's supposed to mean either.

Less competitors make things less competitive.

"Large crowd" is subjective. Define large.
 
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For what it's worth, there are some ideas being looked at to make the enduros an event that can be attractive to a more prepared or developed program, and at the same time to a less prepared and less developed program. The rules don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.

I think we're all interested in getting as many people involved as possible.
 
Randy Blaylock said:
For what it's worth, there are some ideas being looked at to make the enduros an event that can be attractive to a more prepared or developed program, and at the same time to a less prepared and less developed program. The rules don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.

I think we're all interested in getting as many people involved as possible.
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Totally agree - one of the most fun events I have done was an event last year where we had over 100 cars at the start of the race. 20 cars on a 2 mile track is just not even close to as much fun.

I would also vote for longer drive stints. If it was up to me I would make no rule on how long one driver can drive.
 
At what point does a tired driver become a safety issue for those competitors around him. Some drivers may get the superman complex and not relize that their porformce is being impaired by their condition.
 
At what point do tires become a safety issue? Should we mandate tire changes also? How about other car components?

How about speed limits? Some drivers are driving above their abilities. How many "good" drivers misjudge their skill or ability to drive in the rain (snow)?

Leave it up to those who most often know best, let the drivers and teams decide.
 
Impaired how?

Is it physical fatigue, or mental fatigue? Or is it boredom?

Or is it a window where an average human can effectively focus?

Do you suppose some humans have more stamina than others, or have trained themselves to be able to focus for longer periods of time than others?

Should these attributes be ignored or "equalized" in the name of a more equitable playing field? Who judges what a reasonable standard is? Is racing fair in the first place? What defines racing?

How does one define "safety" relative to this particular issue? Safe from what? Not being able to press the brake pedal because your leg is worn out?

Or is it a loss of concentration? How can anyone know when most people will lose focus? Isn't it best left to the drivers to judge for themselves? Why is an enduro any different from any other race weekend?

Should we also define where cars must brake for corners, and passing zones? Maybe the drivers can't be trusted to make this judgement call either.

A time limit, on the surface, seems reasonable. On one hand there is a theoretical argument that a limitation mitigates a safety hazard. The problem is, this can't be proven. There may be no relationship whatsoever.

Or maybe it's just a tool of "redistribution", of the things that some teams have worked tirelessly to optimize for the event that gives them an advantage.
 
We all race by the rules set forth for the event,,,, ( what ever they are)Teams and drivers that dont optimize this situation is Ok ,But for us that are competive and want to win ,We choose to go all out. Crew chiefs and drivers are chosen at this time for there skill level. Saftey is always first on that list.Racing is already a dangerous sport and we all chose to be here.Endurance racing is just That........ Endurance for the drivers and cars alike. We have some of the best drivers and teams . These Enduros SIR,Portland,T-Hill, Have become events that Teams and Drivers from all over the US and Canada want to compete in because of the skill level required.and it only getting better.We have created races that even the pro guys want to attend. Iam not putting down the teams that want to use different statigies and are estatic that they finished. Cudos to all the ppl that put on these class events. I no of no where and how a 3hr stint is dangerous .Endurance racing puts teams up against weather, driver ability,car preperation, If your rain driving is not so good do we have a requirment on that situation NO./;; Its up to the teams and driver at the time to deal with that problem if they want to finish unscaved. Endurance racing brings out the best in everyone one way or another.
 
How long is too long?

Should be interesting to see how Donny Edwards does driving solo in the highly competitive E2 class in his Brimstone Dynasty Spec E30 BMW, as the only driver for 25 hours.
 
Randy Blaylock said:
How long is too long?

Should be interesting to see how Donny Edwards does driving solo in the highly competitive E2 class in his Brimstone Dynasty Spec E30 BMW, as the only driver for 25 hours.
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he ended up finishing behind another person that drove the whole 25 hours and finished first in E2 then drove to the airport, flew sac to lax then to his home city for work today
 
Wow, what a couple of studs. When I was younger I MAYBE could have done that. I used to drive the 36 hours from Oklahoma to here and also Oklahoma to LA 22 hours straight through, but that was not doing as much shifting braking etc (I did drive kinda fast though).

Wonder how they kept from being bored... wire a hard rock station into the helmet? Heads up video games???
 
Did he actually got to work yesterday? I kind of doubt it, and if he did he probably wasn't very productive.
Why would anyone run the full 25 alone anyway? Would you gain much during pit stops? Is it worth the wear and tear on your body, and the potential problems it could cause? Seems it just might put the other drivers in danger at some point when exhaustion sets in and the mind begins to cloud.
I do hope these two write about the experience however, it would be a fascinating read.
 
Why? Why Not!

westipton said:
Did he actually got to work yesterday? I kind of doubt it, and if he did he probably wasn't very productive.
Why would anyone run the full 25 alone anyway? Would you gain much during pit stops? Is it worth the wear and tear on your body, and the potential problems it could cause? Seems it just might put the other drivers in danger at some point when exhaustion sets in and the mind begins to cloud.
I do hope these two write about the experience however, it would be a fascinating read.
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Because he wanted to. Why climb mountains? Why run a marathon?
He wanted to test himself. I think it was great he pushed himself. Nothing wrong with that. Not for everybody but was for him. If I was younger and had the ways and means I would love to try it. The rule makers allowed it so what's the problem? Did any of the other drivers complain?

What's wrong with pushing the limit? Anyone can sit on couch and watch life go by.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
Theodore Roosevelt One of if not the greatest quotes ever!

Anyone can poke holes it what someone else does, wants to do. How would anyone know if he was productive or not? Just because someone got 7 hours sleep last night does not mean they were productive.
 
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I don't think that anybody would want to diminish the man's personal glory of accomplishment.

I'm very happy that it was a successful endeavor.

So, if NASA wants to accept the liability, it is entirely their prorogative. Other organizations may well be more guarded in their own assessment of the potential for accusations of negligence should that same endeavor be executed less successfully at those events.

I'm sure that PIR is an easier lap than THill. Maybe there isn't enough of a challenge. Not many seem to want to run the Chicane. So save that accomplishment for the Chumps.

I'm gonna go read about it now.
 
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He crashed because he was tired, therefore it's our fault.

I guess it's not out of the realm of possibilities in this day and age of claiming ignorance that hot coffee burns. If that's the threshold, we should probably cancel racing altogether.

Someone once said, "...somebody starts clanging that "We could all be sued! We're all in danger! " bell, running in circles like their hair's on fire,..."

Funny how it depends on your perspective what something looks like.
 
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