#714 - Reporting to Scales



Current ICSCC Rule E/C 714

"All class winners shall be weighed when applicable----
Failure of finishers designated by the Race Steward to report directly to the scales at the end of the race may result in disqualification.
Any car required to weigh at the end of the race that does not meet the required minimum weight, will be disqualified."

I propose changing the last sentence to read:
“Any car required to weigh at the end of the race that does not report to the scales, or meet the required minimum weight may be either disqualified or penalized two laps
at the Race Stewards discretion."

Reason for change.
I had intended on writing a fair size piece about what keeps us involved in this hobby that is quite expensive and time consuming. The short answer is, that it gives us “satisfaction” or, just good feelings. What causes people to leave, unpleasant or ‘icky’ memories.
Every single year I have been made aware of several fairly new drivers that just in their newness, and joy at finishing a race, have forgotten all about reporting to the scales. They have been totally disqualified, no trophy, no points. Understandably this leaves them with a pretty empty discouraged feeling. I have noticed a trend, that these drivers are much less likely to return and race with us again. This hurts all of us. For the $200 to $275 that a race entry costs, we should try to keep drivers feeling good about it.
Yes, I understand a rule is a rule, and should be enforced. But this is not a safety issue, and I think it best for our Race Stewards to be able to use some discretion. They may continue to disqualify all. But this gives them the option, if they feel that not reporting was a “newbie error” or in any other way inadvertant, to still punish quite seriously, but without sending such a harsh message.
How about simply rolling all cars with a minimum weight requirement over then scales on the way to pre-grid before the race?

This would let people that are underweight for whatever reason, usually because of a silly oversight, get up to weight before the race and not be gravely dissapointed after having spent all the time and money to run the race for nothing.
You can do that now. Provided the scales are not occupied with a run group just off track, the scales are available to roll across - either after a practice/quali session or just prior to rolling onto pre-grid for the race.

I've lost my qual times once because of being underweight...since then I make sure that doesn't happen again!
Lee, I know of one that knowingly was under weight and winning races and was illegal until he was "caught" and hasnt been back since. Hal tells us at EVERY drivers meeting to go across the scales, if someone is not smart enough to do this simple thing I question if they belong out there with us anyway. I wish I could run ballast, SCCA has placed a racing weight on my car that is only achievable thru acid dipping.
Acid dipping isn't very good for your skin. Try Ultra Slim Fast. It takes a little longer but doesn't hurt as much.
Disregard this idea.
IRDC did not vote it to go forward
(voted it down).

Daryl said, "if someone is not smart enough to
do this simple thing I question if they belong
out there with us anyway." Perhaps that was
view of majority. The majority has spoken.
End of that subject.

However, I certainly hope others will work on
ideas to get more entries (and retain drivers we
do get out). Consider that on average, each
additional entry can reduce all our entry fees
by about $2.00!
Yeah Lee, like that's gonna happen. Sorry, did I say that, oops!
How about simply rolling all cars with a minimum weight requirement over then scales on the way to pre-grid before the race?

it would just take a while and at places like Seattle and Portland with over 50 per race..that might be a long line...

My brother races stock cars and they are required to have their cars inspected before EVERY race.
(includes weight AND other items)..

but most of their races have about 15 cars.

Would probably have to have either another scale going or some really fast weighers!
Well, stock cars is my background too, that's where I got the idea. At the time, we regularly had 30 car fields, and the tech included an underhood inspection, a minimum ride height and body height check, and a track width check. They managed to get it done between 30 lap races on 3/8 oval.

The fields in Conference are rarely 50 cars, usually more like 25, and between 2 to 40 something.

I agree that it would add to the already heavy workload of the volunteer workers, and the wide variety of track widths and wheel bases would only accentuate this.

Nevertheless, this seems to be the only consistent and regular tech check conducted at the track over and above normal safety stuff, and it was just a thought.
"How about simply rolling all cars with a minimum weight requirement over the scales on the way to pre-grid before the race?"

More to the point, they may meet minimum weight with a full fuel load, and not meet it after half an hour of racing.
Sure, I agree.

What's the difference between meeting minimum weight before or after the race, so long as the minimum weight is verified at some point?

The only thing I can think of is that maybe some people feel that accurately guessing one's fuel consumption is part of the competition.
"maybe some people feel that accurately guessing one's fuel consumption is part of the competition."

Considering the number of race vehicles that I have had to Flat Tow in (just this year) because they ran themselves out of fuel before the end of one session or another (Enduros too). I'll have to agree with that theory.

I blame to many whiz bang data acquisition toys. Everybody's gotta play with the formula now that they have all this irrefutable data.

I can only just hope that they find a safe place to land without screwing up everybody elses qualifying, or race, while we flip flags and expose personnel and equipment in response to their slight miscalculation.

Sorry about the rant.
I remember a past thread about people being late to pregrid and having faster cars going through the field. I wonder what would happen if we reported to the scales before we hit the track...

Just my thoughts

I dont get it, whats so hard about going over the scales after a race. Putting the min weight on the door makes it twice as fast. To me this is a no brainer. Race cars dont carry documents inside, only in conference, nowhere else. It was put into action in SCCA last year, I showed up the first race and the scale guys thought it was great, Ron announced it as a trial program at the next race but no memos have been sent out to the clubs letting them know to accept this instead of requiring log books in the cars. This is a legitimate proposal for a rule change for this year.
The official ICSCC Minimum Race Weight (MRW) Sticker program for 2008 will be voted on at the Fall Meeting.

I have submitted it for the E-Board to consider on the basis of this year's successful pilot program.

The proposed rule will call for each car (one requiring a min. race weight) having a new ICSCC MRW sticker applied to both sides of the car in the upper and rearward most area of the front fenders (for sedans) and along the side sections nearest the cockpit opening for any open wheel cars.

The sticker will allow for 3 different car numbers and 2 different classes together with the corresponding min. weights. The sticker will be signed and dated by one of the Stewards and will correctly reflect the min. race weight recorded in the car's log book. Each driver will be responsible for the accuracy of the weight.

I want to thank all of those drivers this year who participated in the pilot program to assist the speediness and accuracy of going through scales at the end of each race. By nearly all accounts, it was a grand success.

Hal Hilton
2007 Asst. Race Steward
Can you imagine threatening rain, and everyone waits as long as possible to go down to pre-grid to decide which tires to go out on. Then everyone makes up their mind, and everyone rolls down to pre-grid at the same time. Imagine the bottle neck attempting to weigh a large grid when the 5-minute and 1-minute warnings are fast approaching. That is a scenario to just weigh after the race.

Luckily for me, I have to have a third-tank of fuel to make weight, so I don't have to worry about running out of fuel. The beauty of a 4-door PRO-3 car. :)

BTW Hal, great idea on MRW decals.
Why not race in a class with no minimum weight and you don't have any of this hassle. Comp Regs Appendix B. Great idea Hal,
Ironically enough, I do personally (ITE/SPO), so one could ask why I care. Good points Lance about the last minute rush possibilities.