New Class for Spec Miata's?

Bill Bonsell

Bill Bonsell

Well-known member
Apparently pursuant to SCCA GCR 9.1.4B, Miata's in full Spec Miata trim are no longer eligible to run in ITA (thank goodness) but will now be placed into a new STL class. This is being discussed over on the MazdaRacer forum. STL is running in the same run group as ITA, but no more SM's in ITA.

Will Conference then follow SCCA lead and create within Group 5, a new STL class? I noticed that SCCA Oregon has the new class on their schedule for this weekend's race, but SCCA NWR is not showing it on their upcoming May event. It is quite possible with the new STL class, that more SM drivers might be open to double stinting given a better change, perhaps, of a podium.

Bill
 
Do you have the direct Link? I can't find anything on that website. Also, STL is just a regional SCCA class.

According to the 2011 GCR the Mazda Miata can still be in ITA according to 9.1.3.

According to 9.1.4B:
2011 GCR said:
Spec Miata cars completely conforming to Spec Miata class
specifications are eligible for STL.
Click to expand...

This does not mean that SM trim Miatas are no longer eligible in ITA. It means that they can now be legal in a regional only class of STL for the purpose of allowing those people in that region to qualify for the national class of STU.

Bill: unless you're planning on running Nationally with the SCCA in STU, then there's little to no reason to create another class in Group 5. Besides, there's plenty of cars in ITA that run similar lap times to SM's so I'm curious on why you don't like running in ITA but like running in Group 5.

I can't understand your opposition to ITA as a second run group. After all, it was a SM that won the ITA championship in 2010!
 
I just read through the rules. STL is going to be a neat class. I hope it goes national and won't just stay regional.

STL requires that SM cars run in full Spec Miata trim. Taking a close look at the SCCA's rules for STL, I'd expect a Spec Miata to get murdered there if competing against true STL cars. Here are some reasons why (and this certainly doesn't include everything):

1. Min weight for a 4 valve/cyl 1.6L car (e.g., 90-93 Miata) is 2080 lbs. 1.6L SM min weight is 2275 lbs.
2. STL cars can use non-metal (e.g., fiberglass, graphite-epoxy composite, etc.) hood and trunk lid.
3. Cylinder head porting and valve jobs are unrestricted.
4. Camshafts are free.
5. Engine swaps (if same manufacturer) are allowed. Honda guys will love this. B16 in your CRX, Colin?
6. Final drive is unrestricted as long as it fits in the diff housing without modification.
7. Any LSD is permitted.
8. Suspension seems fairly open.
9. Max wheel size is 17x7. No mention of min wheel weight. So, you can run the 10 lb Enkei 15x7s or whatever.
10. DOT R tires but not restricted to RA1s.
11. Aero is allowed (air dams, splitters, wings, etc.)

If I were to build an STL car, I think I'd go with a 8th gen Civic Si with the K20 motor.
 
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You other SM/CSM racers have fun with that. I'm staying in ITA, and like the Colin/Rick/Tucker/ETC carrot.

SFR SCCA has this in its 2011 Supps and if we need adopt them, I'm all for it!

SMT/SSM in ITA: 1990-1997 SMT or SSM class-compliant cars may enter ITA. SMT or SSM cars entering as ITA cars must comply with all SMT/SSM Class rules except for tires, which must comply with GCR Section 9.3.45 (Tires). All other ITA entries must comply fully with ITA class rules per GCR Section 9.1.3.
1999-2005 SMT class-compliant cars may enter ITS. SMT cars entering as ITS cars must comply with all SMT class rules except for tires, which must comply with GCR Section 9.3.45 (Tires); and restrictor plates, which must comply with GCR Section 9.1.3. All other ITS entries must comply fully with ITS class rules per GCR Section 9.1.3
 
Colin....

STL was added by SCCA National as a regional class (for now) for fully compliant Spec Miatas. Both SCCA San Francisco, SCCA Oregon and SCCA NWR has added this to their supps. All Spec Miatas will double dip[ in STL. Same cars - same run group. It doesn't change the make up of the run group. Before, as I understand it, a 100% compliant Spec Miata was not legal in ITA for reasons that escape me. Also keep in mind, that a fully developed ITA car will kick ass on a fully compliant Spec Miata. And I might add, as so often happens on these forums, I never said I did not like running in ITA. And I have no intention of running Nationals. I was merely trying to determine if Conference will add STL to Group 5 to reflect the new placement of SM within SCCA.

As it stands right now, I double dip in ITA within Conference but STL when I race SCCA.

Mike...
A compliant SM will get murdered in both ITA and STL to fully developed car. It was a crap shot either way as it has been explained to me. But a fully compliant SM is legal in STL but it is not legal in ITA this year. Local SCCA regions just brought their supps in line with national directives I suspect.

Here is a link to the discussion of STL over on MazdaRacers.com
http://mazdaracers.com/index.php?showtopic=296

My feeling is that if at all possible, Conference should mirror SCCA guidelines when possible. There is a lot of cross over racing.
 
As a follow up, I think some of the issues with SM still being in ITA has to do with some of the new SM rule changes for 2011....possibly adjustable fuel pressure and the defensibility of those changes if left in ITA. While it is true a Miata can still run in ITA, I don't believe a 2011 compliant SM is now legal in ITA.

Colin...reread my original post and it does seem like I was hoping to escape ITA....that was predicated on an original thought that somehow STL would be a more competitive class for a lowly SM. How wrong I am! Either way, a fully developed ITA or STL car will kick my ass!....But either way, hopefully I will be closer to the front when the green flag drops and can at least see the hot ITA cars!
 
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from what i know an early 1.6 miata in SM trim is very close to what you can do to it in ITA, spec parts vs any parts you want is the biggest thing i see, what i didnt like was a 1.8 miata which was an ITS car was legal in ITA if trim as sm. if a SM runs any fast ITA tire instead of running there spec tire its a good race to any true built ITA car. looking over STL an ITA car no matter which one or how good it was prepped would be very slow
 
Eric...

Only the 99-05 1.8's are ITS cars. The 94-97's are ITA's. But both would be eligible for STL. Perhaps a fully prepped 1.6, now allowed fuel pressure adjustments, might be more competitive with a equally prepped ITA car but that would be the exception rather than the rule. And remember, that a 1.8 in full Spec Miata trim is running a restrictor which must be left in place if running ITA. Remove that and add Hoosiers and things change a bit.
 
Bill Bonsell said:
As a follow up, I think some of the issues with SM still being in ITA has to do with some of the new SM rule changes for 2011....possibly adjustable fuel pressure and the defensibility of those changes if left in ITA. While it is true a Miata can still run in ITA, I don't believe a 2011 compliant SM is now legal in ITA.

Colin...reread my original post and it does seem like I was hoping to escape ITA....that was predicated on an original thought that somehow STL would be a more competitive class for a lowly SM. How wrong I am! Either way, a fully developed ITA or STL car will kick my ass!....But either way, hopefully I will be closer to the front when the green flag drops and can at least see the hot ITA cars!
Click to expand...

@Bill: Damn fine discussion over on the Mazda racers forum. It does appear that choosing to run your SM in STL is actually worse off than running it in ITA. Doesn't Mark De Regt (sp?) run a Spec Miata as opposed to an ITA Miata?. He out qualified Tucker at PR and fought with the 2 of us the entire race for 1st place in ITA. Hell, I was on defense for 30 minutes straight! Considering the recent success of SM cars in ITA I would say that moving the SM cars to STL would be much worse.

@Colangelo: A B16 would be nice, heck, even converting my D16a6 to OBD1 would be nice but remember, the faster you go and the more open the rules are.... the more it costs to be competitive. Bearings, hubs, axles, brakes... all will wear out and brake sooner the faster you're going. It would be nice to show up in STL with a B16 (160hp) CRX weighing in at 2080lbs and running 225 Hoosiers... DAYUM!

Back to Bill: Honestly it would be MUCH easier to address the ITA legality situation by just submitting and voting on an allowance in the rules with the ICSCC to state that SM cars are legal to run ITA within the ICSCC. I find that solution far easier and superior to throwing another class in the mix.

Last but not least... have we narrowed down exactly what it is on the SM car that makes it illegal in ITA? I can't find any specifics.

Lastly, it appears that ITA is the place to be for the Miatas and I personally prefer it that way as I like racing against them even though it can be very scary at times :p
 
Colin -
I don't know anyone running in the area with a specifically ITA Miata. ITA is the "other" class beyond SM/CSM for SM's and other more developed Miata's. There has to exist some reason for SCCA National to create this new STL regional class for SM's to double dip in. I think it has to do with the new SM rules. I suspect that on a national level, a SM is non-competitive in ITA because the rules require it to remain in SM compliance even down to the tires I believe.

A SM in STL can still hammer on ITA cars within Group 5. This weekend in Portland some SM will take the first regional class win in STL..all the while running with the same cars as always. Don't know why it would be a big deal to create STL within Conference if it mirrors what is being done within SCCA. If the powers to be want to keep SM's in ITA within Conference, hey that's fine. I was merely wanting to inquire as to what Conference was going to do, if anything considering the changes within SCCA as it relates to SM/CSM.

It's been a long winter. I just want to start racing. Car is ready, motorhome is ready and driver is more than ready. Hell, even my wife is ready!
 
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It's been a long off-season, hasn't it? ;-)

I'm with Jeff Clark, Colin, and Eric on this one. Conference should put in the supps (or change the CR, if it's not too late) that fully-compliant 90-97 Spec Miatas (with the IT tire allowance) should be allowed to run in ITA. I had a blast racing my CRX against buddies of mine in Spec Miatas last year and I'm hoping to do it again this year. The racing is close and good and I only have 115 whp.

So, with that said, how do we make this happen? The next annual Contest Board Meeting is in the fall. Does this mean that our only option until next year is to put this in the Supps?
 
I believe you're correct Mike. It's too late and we would have to submit it this year for implementation next year. However, in the meantime I'm going to adhere to the status quo and continuing to accept SMs as part the ITA competition.

Any other non-SM ITA racers willing to go on record as well? SM is legal in ITA for all I'm concerned, even if one takes the championship again! :(
 
Wait, before a rule change is submitted, did anybody ever figure out what exactly in SM is not legal in ITA?
 
tucker said:
Wait, before a rule change is submitted, did anybody ever figure out what exactly in SM is not legal in ITA?
Click to expand...

The fuel pressure regulator can now be adjusted in SM. Apparently, the SCCA was tired of figuring out who was illegally adjusting fuel pressure. Some people were getting creative in their cheating so the SCCA decided to just make it legal for everyone. It's amazing what some people will do for a $6 trophy.

SCCA GCR (2011), 9.1.8.L.1:
"Fuel system
1. The fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator must be Mazda OEM parts and unaltered, but the regulator may be adjusted freely. Any adjustable mechanical fuel regulator may be used, but it may not be adjusted from the cockpit. Unleaded fuel filler trap door and restrictor plate in filler neck may be removed. Refer to GCR Section 9.3.26 for permitted fuel specifications and for the required fuel sample acquisition port."

I'm told that this is good for a gain of about 2 horsepower.

There were a bunch of other changes including lowering the min weight of 90-97 Spec Miatas by 10 lbs, giving the 94-97 SMs a less restrictive restrictor plate, and allowing the 99-05 SMs to adjust timing by elongating the mounting holes of the crankshaft position sensor trigger wheel. And some other odds-and-ends.

But my understanding is that allowing adjustment of the fuel pressure regulator was the issue with ITA.
 
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Since when are adjustable fuel pressure regulators not allowed in ITA?

The GCR says an External Fuel Pump Pressure Regulator may be installed. I would think that a SM with an Adj FPR would be legal in ITA. Also, the weight wouldn't be an issue, you can always bolt in a lead block if you need between run groups.

I guess I'm not understanding, please fill in the gaps.


ps @ Tucker: I agree, I would prefer to see remain as they are. I want to the Miatas to keep running in ITA. It's not a run group thing with me, it's a race class thing.
 
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colin_koehler said:
Since when are adjustable fuel pressure regulators not allowed in ITA?

The GCR says an External Fuel Pump Pressure Regulator may be installed. I would think that a SM with an Adj FPR would be legal in ITA. Also, the weight wouldn't be an issue, you can always bolt in a lead block if you need between run groups.

I guess I'm not understanding, please fill in the gaps.


ps @ Tucker: I agree, I would prefer to see remain as they are. I want to the Miatas to keep running in ITA. It's not a run group thing with me, it's a race class thing.
Click to expand...

Good question. That's one for the SCCA guys.

But notice that although the ITA rules allow you to use an external fuel pump pressure regulator, there's no mention of free adjustment like the new SM rules now explicitly allow. Can we adjust fuel pressure in ITA? It's not clear to me.
 
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Adjustable FPR's are legal Improved Touring.

You're being allowed to run an aftermarket part with no specification requiring it meet OEM standards, adjustable or otherwise.
 
I just went and looked at the SCCA GCR and I could find NOTHING in 9.1.4 that changes how SM cars are eligible for ITA, the STL change just allows SM cars to run in an additional class (but as others have pointed out, SM's would not be very competive. Spec MX-5 cars are also eligible and they have a different class created because they were beyond the other cars in SM).

Mike
 
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