Tow vehicle: Gas vs Diesel?

MilanoMan

Driver School Director
Hi, I 'm in the market for a truck both as a tow vehicle and primary driver. Contemplating the gas vs diesel question... Not as much concerned about Chevy vs Ford (sorry, don't see myself in a Dodge), and looking at the 350/3500 level. Can anyone provide some insight?

Thanks. Mirko
 
I'm a guy who grew up in a GM family that also bought certain Fords and never a Mopar. That being said, I think you are foolish to not consider offerings from all of the big three because all have had top trucks in different time frames.

I've done the same study myself more than once and determined that there is a substantial price difference between a gas rig and a diesel that requires a pretty specific description of use to determine which would be better. Purchase price and maintenance costs are on the side of the gas rig. Fuel mileage, torque for towing, and longevity favor the diesel. A lot of the decision comes down to how often you are going to use it to tow, how far you will be towing, how much you want to spend, and how many miles you are going to put on it in total. I ended up buying a used two wheel drive gas Avalanche because it had something like 8400 lbs of towing capacity and I was going to use it mostly for moving my trailer around and towing to close tracks for test and tunes and track days. It didn't make sense for me to incur the higher purchase price of a diesel and the high maintenance costs for as little as I intended to use it and how infrequently I intended to tow. You can buy a lot of gas fro the difference in price between a gas rig and a diesel. If you drive a lot of miles diesels can help even that out because they retain their value better and can be expected to last for a lot more miles than a gas rig. Something to remember is that while the diesel motor might go 250-300,00 miles you will still be in a cab and seats that have seen the same 300k!

Driving a 350/3500 pickup as a daily driver simply would not be an option for me because I meet people in offices in metro areas all over the Northwest and I can assure you that parking lots and side streets are getting less passable by a heavy duty truck every day. If you buy a heavy duty, extra cab, long bed pickup plan on walking two blocks from your parking spot to the restaurant you want to have lunch at!
 
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Do you really need a 1-ton? I used to have a 2nd gen Tundra which was rated for towing 10,000 lbs and worked very well with my 7500 lb enclosed trailer. It was the most civilized of the 3 tow vehicles I've owned (the other two were an F-350 and a Ram 3500 dually - both diesel) and came closest to daily driveability. You could actually see that the gas gauge had moved between the bottom of the Vantage grade and the top when towing with the Tundra. But as Rick says, you can buy a lot of gas for the purchase price difference.
 
I'll just throw in a useless $.02 and agree with Rick's points about gas/diesel, tow-mostly vs. also-daily-driver, and for the same reasons. Especially if you're buying used (e.g.), there are way more choices when talking gas vs. diesel.
 
Always a fun debate. I myself stumbled upon a deal for a 95 Diesel Ford years ago that I couldn’t pass up. The price negated the whole gas versus diesel cost debate for me but as Rick noted, there is usually a discernable difference. I had previously owned all three US makes with only gas engines because of that additional expense, and all three have their pro’s and con’s. The biggest negative though is steep hills. I’m far too impatient to be doing 30 mph at the top of a long hill like Vantage. For me that’s where the diesel shines. You can maintain your pace and the gas mileage is still survivable. Plus you can be done with dinner in Ellensburg when your buddies catch back up. ;) I work in the heavy duty truck and engine world, so diesel power is just a no brainer for me, and I’m biased.
HOWEVER.. As much as I love my truck, it usually sits in the driveway until I go to Lowes, head to the track, or go camping. If I had to daily drive my diesel, (I’m forced to this week coincidentally) I would almost certainly switch back to gas. We get 6 months of chilly wet weather around here, and I can be nearly done with my 30 minute commute before the engine tempts are optimal (or the heater makes ANY difference to the cabin temp or windshield opacity status). I have a block heater that helps for the morning commutes, but that’s not an option at the office. If you have the patience to let her warm up for a while, then no big deal. On the flip side, you can plow right through a 100 degree day with the confidence you won’t overheat. But IMHO, I find myself recommending gas trucks to someone in your situation. Just my two cents.
Oh.. And depending on the proximity of your neighbors; they typically LOVE the sound of an idling diesel. When my dumb neighbors stand in their driveway yelling at each other, I often go start my truck. They usually go back inside. Put that one in the win column.
 
I've been very happy (mostly) with my 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax. As Bob says, 10000 lb towing capacity. I recently weighed my loaded trailer, and it is just shy of 8000 lbs. But I've got a big heavy race car (3300 lbs). The only down-side to the Tundra is gas mileage. Only gets about 7mpg, and with a stock 26 gal tank, that was way too little towing range (about 150 miles). I had a 46 gal tank installed in place of the original. Now I find it a wonderful tow vehicle, and it has the biggest back seat of any crew cab or Suburban type SUV I have ever seen. I use it as a daily driver as well, and its gas mileage in town is more like 15, so acceptable, but not great. And it will accelerate up sunset hwy in Ptld, or on the climb out of Biggs going to ORP all the way up to 70 mph. But if I had much more trailer or race-car I'd probably want a diesel. What I really, really want, is a 26' RV with a 10000 lb towing capability, gas or diesel, either one. Never seen such a beast yet.
 
Thanks guys, this all makes sense and is super helpful! I'm not stuck on a 1-ton and definitely not on a dually, was just thinking about getting the "most" for my budget. Didn't realize the cost of maintenance downside but did know the longevity upside on diesels. I work from home and don't drive around town much, most frequent driving is out to the track (not always towing). I understand and agree that I should probably look for a truck that is more comfortable to drive daily than one that is a towing beast (my current car/trailer and equipment weight is current less than 6k). So it definitely seems a gas in the F150/250 or 1500/2500hd range would suffice. However, I did find a very clean (actually, super clean) F350, with a smaller 5.2L gas motor and 48k miles (10,000lbs tow rating), long bed, non-dually. The price seems reasonable at $16k. May keep looking, not sure. Thanks for arming me with all this info, it's very appreciated.

Mirko
 
I have towed with a GMC 3500 single gas, a 3500 dually diesel and now a diesel motor home. Hands down the dually diesel was the best overall for this job. Not a good around town rig though, but I went older and higher mileage as I don't drive except for towing and hauling. The motorhome is nice, but nearly as nice a tow rig.
I suggest a 100-130k miles gm diesel as the best for a guy that doesn't daily drive it, less cost to sit in the driveway!
 
Do you need a truck because you also need to go get a yard of bark once in a while? I picked up a used 3/4 ton '99 Suburban a few years ago and like being able to lock all my gear up inside, and it's high and dry. May not be good for towing an enclosed trailer, but for my PRO3 car and open trailer it's been great.
 
I drive a 2006 GMC Extended cab, 4WD with a gas 5.3L and tow package. I tow the Jagermeister PRO3 car in a 24ft. enclosed trailer and spares, which weighs in the 7,000lb range. I leaned toward the everyday driver selection since I usually only make it to 5-6 races or track days a year. While it is a little under powered I still can hold 55-60 while towing on freeway grades. i haven't tried Vantage hill yet though. This truck can enter most parking garages in Seattle. I would buy this level of truck again based on the last 3 years experience.
 
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I bought a 2001 Ford Excursion V10 4x2 back in 2010. It has served 6 race seasons as my tow rig and I have really enjoyed it as a family hauler & various random home improvement projects.

I bought it with 90k on it and now just at 130k so it's seen a few miles towing & driving. The V10 is cheap and takes 87 octane, while rocking a 44 gallon tank. I get about 11-15 mpg not towing and 6-8mpg towing (I tow a 20' to 24' depending on which trailer at 65-80mph). I can tow up any hill at reasonable speed (vantage is about 55-60mph) and its smooth to drive at all times.

I did do some improvements as things were necessary to make it the ultimate tow machine. I updated the transmission seal, installed billet torque convertor and additional trans cooler (1 stock, 1 aftermarket) to keep it towing flawlessly. Then I added air bags in the rear and ranchos all around with a hellwig rear sway bar.

Total cost is around $10k (all mods included) for me, but again it's been solid. You can find excursions similar for $5-8k pending condition and mileage...


ps. Everything is always for sale with me so if it interests you hit me up and we can talk..
 
I bought a 2001 Ford Excursion V10 4x2 back in 2010. It has served 6 race seasons as my tow rig and I have really enjoyed it as a family hauler & various random home improvement projects.

I bought it with 90k on it and now just at 130k so it's seen a few miles towing & driving. The V10 is cheap and takes 87 octane, while rocking a 44 gallon tank. I get about 11-15 mpg not towing and 6-8mpg towing (I tow a 20' to 24' depending on which trailer at 65-80mph). I can tow up any hill at reasonable speed (vantage is about 55-60mph) and its smooth to drive at all times.

I did do some improvements as things were necessary to make it the ultimate tow machine. I updated the transmission seal, installed billet torque convertor and additional trans cooler (1 stock, 1 aftermarket) to keep it towing flawlessly. Then I added air bags in the rear and ranchos all around with a hellwig rear sway bar.

Total cost is around $10k (all mods included) for me, but again it's been solid. You can find excursions similar for $5-8k pending condition and mileage...


ps. Everything is always for sale with me so if it interests you hit me up and we can talk..

+1 for the Excursion, I think it is the best value in towing / race rig.
 
I owned Chevy pickups over the years, as my dad, uncles, and both grandads owned and drove Chevys. The last Chevy I had was a C30 Dually, with a 454 and an auto. Passed everything but a gas station. Got about 4mpg, empty, loaded, fast, slow.

I spent a small fortune keeping that thing running. Rebuilt the tranny twice. At some point before I bought it there had been a bearing failure on the right rear, and I had to tear the whole rear end apart, replace all the bearings, the locker, ring and pinion, and repair the housing where the bearing failure had happened (cut off and weld on a new threaded stub). It had headers when I bought it. The exhaust runs so hot while running it cooks itself to a rusty and crumbled mess in short order, and keeping leaks sealed are a waste of time. I ultimately bought new cast iron manifolds from the dealer, and mounted them with copper gaskets. That solved that maintenance headache. Even with the hydroboost brakes if the trailer brakes weren't doing their share the thing took way too long to get slowed down. Coming down the hill from the Westwood circuit up in BC with the trailer and car was always a scary proposition. With just a canopy, some of my gear in the back (tires, fuel, some spares), and everything else in the trailer with the car, it weighed around 18-19,000lbs.

Driving that beast was brutal. The floor was not insulated, the carpet and padding doing little to keep out mechanical and road noise. Or heat. Remember the hot exhaust? Even when the A/C was working, a tow on a summer day sucked. And in the mountains I couldn't use it, the engine would overheat.

And it didn't have the torque to climb grades loaded like a diesel. Even the big trucks would pass me.

Even though it was a one ton dually, the weight of the trailer always seemed to push it and pull it, I always knew the trailer was there.

So.

I bought a Ram 3500 with the ISB 24 valve, and six speed manual gearbox new in 2001. It has 130,000 miles on it now. I have changed the oil and filter every 5,000 miles, the fuel filter every 25,000. I found one of the exhaust manifold bolts broken while performing an oil change service, it was replaced under warranty. The fuel pump crapped out just outside of the warranty, I bought one at NAPA for $125 and had it swapped out in about 20 minutes. The tranny is supposed to never require a lube change, but at 150,000 I plane on changing it and rear end lube. I replaced the batteries at about 70,000 miles. A new set of tires at 85,000 or so, I can't remember for sure. The serpentine accessory drive belt has been done twice, each time at around 50,000 miles. I still have not had to reline the front brakes, but probably will before it gets to 150,000 miles and don't expect to do the rears until around 250-300,000 miles. With diesel engines the exhaust is oily, and this rig gas stainless from the turbo to the outlet. It may never wear out.

And it does not leak.

I expect to go at least 500,000 miles before even thinking about maybe an inframe on the engine, 1,000,000 miles is not an unrealistic expectation given good maintenance practices. The radiator, heater and CAC hoses are silicone, should last 500-750,000 miles. The (extended life) coolant is good for 600,000 miles or 6 years (I actually changed it out in 2011 when the test strips showed it was breaking down, 4 years overdue, but way before the miles limit). Do that with a gas engine.

The truck is rated for 22,000lbs combined GVW. When I tow to a meet, with the camper, trailer, car tires, fuel, spares, tools, etc. it weighs 21,500lbs. On a trip to Thunderhill I got 18mpg, and only had to drop one gear in the hills of Southern Oregon and Northern California.

And I barely know the load is behind me, unlike with the Chevy.

If I am traveling with just the camper or the canopy I can get better than 20mpg. I know guys that have the 3500 single rear wheel Rams that are getting 23 to 24. Towing.

Driving the Dodge is like riding in a luxury car. Heated leather seats with 6 way electric adjustments and inflatable lumbar and side cushions. Power windows and door locks. Cruise control. Air conditioning that can be used no matter the terrain or load. A six speaker stereo that doesn't need to be cranked to hear over the noise of the engine or road.

Of course the thing is 6 wheel drive too, so going skiing in the winter is way better than with the Chevy, as it was only RWD. But I also can never use winter snowstorms as an excuse to not be able to get to work.

I would never go back to a gas powered pickup. Ever.

And I see that diesel fuel has come back down to the same as regular gas again, just like it was when I bought the thing.

Sure, the newer gas powered pickups get better fuel economy than they used to, but the newer diesel pickups get even better mileage than they did when my Ram was new. And you never have to change spark plugs on a diesel engine. Or fiddle with the fuel system save for changing the filter periodically, gas fuel delivery systems always seem to require more attention than diesel ones, costing more money. And gas engines have lots of moisture in their exhaust, so even with stainless steel, the vapors combine with other compounds from the combustion process to form some pretty corrosive stuff. And most of the ones sold have automatic transmissions. The only automatic gearbox I would ever tow with would be an Allison. But I don't own any vehicles with automatic transmissions anymore, and really don't want another.

Shifting is way too much fun.

So I was born and raised a Chevy man, but the Ram has got me hooked. It is built with a medium duty truck engine and transmission. The axles and suspension are designed to do the job. The engines that Ford and Chevy use V engines for their diesel pickups. Inline designs are better I think. Look back at V diesel engines, the 8.2 that GM had in medium duty trucks in the late 70's and early to late 80's. A boat anchor. And that converted car engine that Chevy and GMC put in pickups for a while. The various versions of the Ford Powerstroke suck from a maintenance and repair standpoint. Working on them sucks, they barely fit in the engine bay and there is little room to get at anything. There was one year recently that required removing the front clip and cab to pull the engine. The apparent popularity of these things escapes me. I don't hear too many complaints about the Chevy Duramax, but given the General Motors track record with diesel engines I was reluctant to give them more than a passing glance back in 2001. The son in law has one and he had some issues with injector drivers in the ECM that the local dealer had a very difficult time sorting out. It left him on a hook quite a few times. My Ram has not failed me yet.



One last comment.

Look at how these things are marketed to us. Sam Elliot pimps the Ram with that deep cowboy drawling sound, making us connect with the Marlboro Man image of the rugged Wild West. Dennis Leary tells everyone how tough Fords are, like a Bronx punk itching for a fight. Chevy, well, Chevy plays a game show kinda thing with 'regular' people just like us, where the answers are their pickups.

I dunno, not one of them reaches out and grabs me.



I really can recommend the Dodge though.

Diesel.

With a manual transmission.

Take control of the power.

And tow safely and comfortably.

And great styling.

GoinRacin003_0.jpg


6WheelinInUtah.jpg


NewRam004_1.jpg
 
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Well Milano Man,
I've never wanted to get into one of these Diesel vs. Gas discussions, as we all have our likes (loves?) and dislikes about each. But... I have been hauling race trailers since 1973 and the hauler I'm currently using gets me to my job and back 100 miles each workday, and on race excursions tows my Trans Am inside a 28' enclosed trailer with 9500 lbs. on the hitch with 4 people and all our stuff in the back to L.Seca and back to BC effortlessly on cruise. Its 15 years old now, and only just had its muffler and starter replaced this year...that's it, except for tires and brakes. Silverado x-cab 496 CID BBC (L18) gas, with the Allison. Just another data point for you. No, it's not for sale, sorry!
 
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