Teleseminar with SFI President Arnie Kuhns to talk about Seat Belt Rules

Arnie Kuhns President of the SFI Foundation will be on a teleseminar hosted by Andy Collins of Armadillo Racing tomorrow night Wednesday February 23rd at 7PM. This is your opportunity to learn about the SFI standards for Seat Harnesses and to ask Arnie any hard questions you might. To participate in this no cost teleseminar log on to the Armadillo Racing website at www.armadilloracing.com. Long distance phone charges may apply. Be sure to tell your friends so they don't miss out on this great opportunity.
 
The correct date is Wednesday Feb 24th 2010

Sheez I hate when that happens. Thanks for pointing out my error. Join us Wedneday as Arnie is primed to talk about Seat Harnesses and FIA too. You'll be stunned at what you hear.
 

westipton

Well-known member
We will probably be stunned at the added expense coming up due to the recent seat belt changes Andy.
I do need to chat with you about a HANS device before April. See you at the enduro.
 

bryan

Bryan Woodbury, CSM 97
That's right in the middle of our NWMS meeting. Hope someone can summarize it for us 'cause the DVR is having trouble with that number.
 

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
We will probably be stunned at the added expense coming up due to the recent seat belt changes Andy.

Wes,

Buy FIA belts and it gets cheaper over the long run.

....I do need to chat with you about a HANS device before April. See you at the enduro.

GO beyond chat, GET ONE, please!

Andy can fit your right in the car and address and clearance issues.

An FF story of one who became a POSITIVE statistic for HANS devices only through the luck of which of his cars he was driving:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38578
 
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Bob Spreen comes to mind in what could have been a bad ugly in Portland at Turn 11.
A Hans device is way cheaper than the cost of injury or worse.........

And besides Wes, you will be racing against your bumper car buddy Bruce "Bad Boy" Boyd won't you???? (just a bit of alliteration)
 

westipton

Well-known member
Yes, bumper boy Boyd will be out there searching for me, but I shall endeavor to stay far away!

A HANS is on my list for this season, but it hasn't reached the top of that list just yet. I will get one for sure I promise mom.
 

westipton

Well-known member
BTW, I have FIA belts Rich, so I don't have to replace them for 2 more years which I discovered just the other night while dinking around on another project.
 

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
Cool ! !

..... as Arnie is primed to talk about Seat Harnesses and FIA too. You'll be stunned at what you hear.

I just hope whatever the statements are that will 'stun' the people on the phone isn't along the lines that the FIA doesn't know what they are doing.......

Looking forward to a summary here.
 
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john_rissberger

John Rissberger
Andy,

Thank you, I didn’t realize the strength of the webbing in the seat belts deteriorated so fast. Very informative.

John Rissberger
# 10 Camaro A/S Oregon
 

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
Andy,

Thank you, I didn’t realize the strength of the webbing in the seat belts deteriorated so fast. Very informative. John Rissberger # 10 Camaro A/S Oregon

Yup but it depends upon the material:

"The SCCA currently accepts two standards families for harnesses: SFI 16.1 and FIA (one of 8853/1895, 8853/98, or 8854/98). Belt expiration is determined differently for the two families.

For SFI belts, we take the date punched into the SFI label (which is approximately the date of manufacture in most cases), add 2 years, and then round out to the following December. For FIA belts, we just use the expiration date on the belt label. If a belt carries both certifications, we use the later date (giving longer usage). This invariably ends up being the FIA expiration date, which is commonly 5 years away for new FIA belts.

So what's the difference? It's pretty simple. Harness webbing is typically Nylon or Polyester; SFI standards permit either. FIA only permits Polyester, which has better aging characteristics, which mostly have to do with the response of the belt to UV exposure (FIA belts also only have cam-lock style latches, but this isn't really an aging related issue.)

So since FIA belts usually last nearly twice as long, I tend to advise drivers that the $30-$40 premium for FIA belts is well worth it"
 
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mikecolangelo

Well-known member
Richard, thanks for passing on that info. Pretty much what I always suspected. My next seat and harness will be FIA rated.
 
Mis information is why we had the teleseminar

Oh my I will not share what Arnie said here, but his talk will be available for download on our website in the near future. Sadly the previous posts about FIA belts and material are totally wrong. Not me saying that but a man who had spent over 25 years doing the testing and reading the results. It isn't appropriate for me to even comment here, I'm just sad that so few chose to listen in as Arnie spoke to this topic in detail. When his talk in up on our site I'll add a post to the form, then you can make up your own mind about what belts are right for you. I have no dog in this fight as we sell both FIA and SFI belts.
 

mikecolangelo

Well-known member
Andy, thanks for making this info available to us. I would have loved to listen in but I got out of work at around 8:30 PM last night.
 

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
Andy,

I'm not criticizing Arnie. But, he does have a dog in the fight. Did Arnie disucss the testing methods for belt ageing

I did a lot of research on this topic a few years ago. Best I could find out about the entire belt life testing process based upon weathering and UV exposure is; They used test data from the SAILING industry evaluating nylon/ployester webbing and rope for those conditions on a boat at sea. It was an accelerated test giving 24 hour a day 7 days a week exposure outdoors in the desert sun and weather. The conclusion for the sailing industry was INDEED, nylon running rigging and webbing should be replaced every 2 years. Which is why if you go in to West Marine, you'll see a LOT of polyester based or reinforced rope these days.

Not exactly the conditions race car seat belts undergo but the 'racing industry' accepted that testing as a 'standard' for us.

Having said that, I FULLY accept both standards. And should somebody PROVE with certainty that the FIA has it all wrong, I'll go along with that too. In the mean time, we'll stay with FIA belts until they cost 2.5 times a much as SFI's. :)
 
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please feel free to interject copious amounts of sarcasm at any point in the following!

Hmmm, I've always been a little curious what passenger car belt material is made of. I guess those belts in my 87 Jetta, 93 Honda, 85 Freightliner, and ......... are just absolutely worthless and come to think of it I suppose I need a HANS for my commute. After all, stastically don't I stand more of a chance getting injured on the freeway based on the miles I drive? (170/day) So can somebody articulate factually why everybody isn't replacing the belts in their street rig? I understand the reason in a racing endevour. ( because of the massive injuries that are ocurring because of seat belt failure)
 
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