Side Bars?



Some class in SCCA now require two bars along the side of the car in the roll cage.

Which Conference classes require these now?
Good question as my G/F Production has a single diagonal since inception in the 90's. Would also like to know if it needs a visit to the welder.
Production class's are to use the SCCA IT rollcage rules. SCCA requires 2 side bars per side. ICSCC does have a grandfather clause but I would suggest that you install the 2 door bars for additional safety. They can be "Nascar" style if you desire. The SCCA rules are free, if you go to there website. The ICSCC rules are posted on this site.
Is RS a production class, Dave? I think it also needs the dual sidebars per 1310.E. Is that a correct reading?

I think the grandfater rule you're referring to is 1105.A.2. It says "All cages previously
stamped will be grandfathered unless modifications have been
made requiring a new ICSCC roll cage stamp." Is that a modifcation to the cage, or a modifcation to the rule set?

Thanks for your help!
The way I read the rules, if your cage is stamped after 2001, it needs to meet the current SCCA IT specifications. RS would need to be built to the IT specs. The means two bars on each side.
by the way, IT specs read "at least one horizontal" meaning X designs are not legal.
Hello all,
Need a bit of clarity here, and just took a peak at the SCCA GCR, section 9.4.2 on side bars (pg. 92). Here's the section for reference:

G. Side Protection:
"Two (2) side tubes connecting the front and rear hoops across both door openings are mandatory. Door side tubes may extend into the door. NASCAR-style side protection, or one bar bisecting another to form an “X” is permitted. The door window glass, window operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, and inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed to facilitate this type
of side protection. The stock side impact beam and the outside door latch/lock operating mechanism shall not be removed or modified."

I didn't read anything about "at least one horizontal" bar, and seems to explicitly allow an X I missing something?

Appreciate the insight and clarity.
I used to have an ITS-class car with X-brace side-impact beams. Never had anybody look at 'em twice (except to compliment the welds!).
The rule is very new, Steve; your Integra was not a candidate for the rule while you owned it.

Jeff, you'll want to get a steward to give a real opinion. There were long threads on the Improved Touring board about whether an X-brace was only one [contiuous] bar, or two.
Really. From an engineering standpoint, I always thought that was the point of an x-brace: "One" bar that has the strength of two.
Really! The guys at flame for sport, so I don't know what merit was in it the argument. I mean, they really shed more heat than light. But there you have it.

As Jeff posted above, IT cars use 2007 SCCA Showroom Stock roll cage rules, mandate two door bars and also specifically allow X bars. It now also mandates two door bars on the passenger side. Single door bars are no longer allowed in any car on any side.
Not in any car? So the post about being grandfathered is wrong, too?
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Yeah, that's pretty much why I stopped patronizing that site, although there are certainly worse (or at least more annoying).
I don't know anything about grandfathering. Why would a club make a new rule for safety, then tell everyone that is not in compliance "ahh, don't worry about it, your car was build 6 years ago."

It's a good upgrade, so no reason not to do it except save a few bucks and a few pounds.

Yes, I know there are other examples why grandfathering is available. The rule switch from ERW to DOM tubing is a good example.

So, I'm confused by the threads here a bit. I acquired a car with a cage that is stamped '92 with a single diagonal bar across the door (1.5dia x 0.090 thk) that I have been re-preparing to the 1972 GCRs.
1 -Do I have to update the cage?
2 - I so, can the second bar be completing the 'X' shape? Rather a horizontal?

There's unclear information when referring to the 1972 rules which goverend the car then and what the ICSCC races today. One can get lost.

Sorry if this is a repeated newbie question.

Give Ron Muro a call. He is the 2007 ICSCC Race Steward. 503-665-0785
I stand corrected, when building my cage in 2000 the GCR read "two door bars with at least one horizontal bar" I see that is no longer how it reads, I remember the discussions on the touring site and was part of them. This one guy wanted to put a rally cage in his car with these realy trick X bars an both sides, they had these neat plates welded into the X and two different mech engineers both said they would go inside out and extend in as far as 8 inches upon impact and that they were designed for chassis rigidity not impacts. that design had the X bent outward like nascar bars to give more driver room. A straight X would not fail as badly. But it appears SCCA has now approved the X for both sides without any engineering input as to the do's and dont's. I would not run an X on the drivers side simply because the center is weaker than a stand alone tube because of the heating from welding and the chance of one of the short tubes getting torn off the X and getting pushed into me. This thread brings back memories of the poor soul that lost his life in SFR when his SCCA mandated window trim went thru his neck. Safety has come a long ways but in this case it has taken a wrong turn allowing X bars on both sides.
"...two different mech engineers both said they would go inside out and extend in as far as 8 inches upon impact"

What kind of impact? I don't think it is fair to condemn a roll cage design with a statment like that and not provide any kind of data on how you came up with that ruling.

I say this because some impacts are not survivable no mater what kind of protection you have. In your statement, what speed are you getting hit? What angle? What is the mass of object hitting you? How deformable is the object hitting you? What size is the tubing in your door bars? Who welded it?

I recall pretty much every German Touring car, British Touring car, FIA Rally car and so on having X bars.

Is there a better design for safety? Maybe- But I'm not an engineer and have not seen an engineer provide data on various types of door bars and how they stand up to a typical club/pro racing accident.

I would love to see some, however.
I didnt come up with it, "two mech engineers" did. what was said was that at a direct hit in the center they would fail, up to a complete reversal of their original shape, in this case they had an 8" outward bend. Thats your door bar coming in 16 inches. Are they right? im not going to find out, I run NASCAR bars.