SCCA announces 2012 spec miata national tire is Hoosier -

[Bill Bonsell]

A lot of excitement on the national level about SCCA announcing today that for the next three years, the National tire will be the Hoosier SM6 and the Hoosier H2O Rain. Most people with experience seem to love these tires and they are American made from a race tire company. Hoosier has committed to offering these tires at $166 each for the 2012 it appears. Since we often have national level SCCA racers in our ranks from time to time, is it now appropriate to consider, with regards to Conference, perhaps an open tire for Spec Miata in 2012 so that competitiors can continue to use their old R888's, RA-1's as well as upgrade, should they choose, to the new Hoosier, or any other tire they choose.

Just wanted to throw this out for some discussion. Obviously some decision will have to be made regarding 2012, and I personally would like to be involved in the discussions. Thanks.:smile:

Bill

 

[colin_koehler]

is it now appropriate to consider, with regards to Conference, perhaps an open tire for Spec Miata in 2012 so that competitiors can continue to use their old R888's, RA-1's as well as upgrade, should they choose, to the new Hoosier, or any other tire they choose.

Just wanted to throw this out for some discussion. Obviously some decision will have to be made regarding 2012, and I personally would like to be involved in the discussions. Thanks.:smile:

Bill

Well Bill, there's 2 ways of going about this:

1: You could have submitted a rules change proposal BEFORE August 1st to change the ICSCC rule for SM to not be based on the Oregon Region SCCA, or it could even state that any DOT tire is allow (like current 2011 GCR states).

2: Since it's too late to submit a rule change for the ICSCC, all you can do is hope that the Oregon Region SCCA changes their SM tire rule to conform to the SCCA national GCR. This wouldn't be all that bad because... According to the ICSCC rule book your Toyos would still be "legal" for one more year and with the SM6 being $166 that makes them cheaper than buying and shaving Toyos. Hell yeah!

ICSCC SM rule:

C 1319. Spec Miata.
This class shall run under current Oregon Region SCCA rules,
except if the spec tire changes, the previous seasons spec tire will remain
legal for the following race season.

So basically, as far as 2012 is concerned, unless the Oregon SCCA changes their tire rule you get to keep running Toyos.

By the way the SM6 has existed for awhile now and I believe the national SCCA SM's have been running it all this year. That's the Hoosier Jon, Rick and myself run; the SM6 (cuz it's $40 cheaper than the R6 and it's the same damn thing!).

Here's the 2011 SCCA rule regarding SM and tires

9.3.45. TIRES
Tires shall be 124 (“U”) mph rated or better unless otherwise specified
or controlled.
In the Improved Touring, Super Touring, American Sedan, Showroom
Stock, Spec Miata and Touring categories, only DOT approved tires are
permitted. Racing, recapped, or re-grooved tires are not allowed. Tire size
is unrestricted unless otherwise stated. The only modifications allowed to tires are having treads “shaved” or “trued.”

The ICSCC rule book states that SM will adhere to Oregon Region SCCA and this is the rule on the Oregon SCCA GCR:

H) Spec Miata Regional (SM): Regional SM entries must use Toyo RA1 or Toyo R888. (Toyo R888 must be
manufactured on or before 12-31-2009.) Size for both tires shall be limited to 205/50-R15. SM entries shall otherwise
follow all GCR rules pertaining to SM preparation.

So you're essentially SOL for 2012 in regards to making an ICSCC rule change because the ICSCC rule book says:

A. No later than August 1, each club’s Contest Board Rep shall call for rule change
proposals from the membership of his/her club, and shall place such proposals
on an agenda for a club meeting to be held within thirty (30) days of the
publication of the club memo or bulletin calling for rule changes.

For next year's reference:

Here is a link to the rules change proposal form:
http://www.icscc.com/forms/rule_change_blank.pdf

And a link to the Rules Change Proposal Form guide:
http://www.icscc.com/references/rule_change_proposal_guidelines.pdf

The ICSCC does not operate like SCCA or NASA. In the ICSCC, if you want something changed it's up to YOU! :wink:



Does this help?

 

[Bill Bonsell]

Hey, great info Colin...I guess we wait to see what Oregon SCCA does, but I know most of the faster guys will want and get the Hoosier. I suspect we should have quite a few options in 2012 then. And as far as I know, no one in SCCA National SM has been running a Hoosier. As far as I know Toyo has been the national SCCA tire this year...love the way you copy and paste stuff. Pretty slick. And if you be running Hoosiers all year, than no wonder you are so damn fast!

Bill

 

[colin_koehler]

I'm going to have to recheck my figures but I think there's only 3 cars in ITA to do 1:31's at PIR with the chicane and one of those guys is Chris Heinrich in his SM with Toyos. So maybe Hoosiers aren't the be-all end-all.

 

[Bossbill]

How many heat cycles do you get out of these, Colin?

 

[kyle_nickels]

CSCC's rule change meeting is the 24th.

 

[Lance Richert]

Will Hoosier honor the same price to local racers?

I suspect SCCA is making a money grab with Hoosier. The benefit will be more to SCCA admin and not to the racer. Except for not being given to us for free PRO3 have mostly been very happy with the Toyo RA1 tire. Reasonable cost, pretty good life, and good handling characteristics.

Here is the press release.

http://www.scca.com/newsarticle.aspx?hub=1&news=4141

They say that not having to shave is a benefit, which is true. The fixed price is just a 3.5% discount, they are not breaking a sweat on that one. More support at "national" events which means you don't have to plan ahead and bring enough rubber for your race weekend. I can see some obscure track locations would benefit from this.

 

[colin_koehler]

How many heat cycles do you get out of these, Colin?

Of the Hoosier, 15 before the performance fell and a little chord showing (which was the result of a cut from Spokane). BTW: spokane cut open 4 of my 8 tires. I will be reconsidering how I approach that trip next year, especially in regards to where I paddock.

Of the Toyos, well I've received used shaved RA1's with 15-20 cycles on them and found myself putting down the same lap times another 25 heat cycles later. It's a shame Hoosier and all their mighty glory can't build a tire that can cycle as well as a Toyo. 15-20 vs. 35+ cycles. Honestly I probably had another 5 good cycles in the Hoosier if they hadn't been ruined at Spokane.


Kyle Nickels: Good catch! Bill Bonsell, you better get to learning them rules changes pretty quick!!!


Lance Richert: Yes they will. You can go to Hoosier Tire West right now and get the current SM6 pricing at $173 a tire.
http://www.hoosiertirewest.com/browse.cfm/p205-50zr15-sm6/4,1130.html These 205/50/15 tires are essentially the SAME width as a 225/45/15 RA1. Could be GREAT for the PRO3 clan and Hoosier might be willing to offer some contingency. Go get 'em Lance!!!!

 

[Bossbill]

Colin -- Do you follow the Hoosier recommendations for breaking them in?
They say here that you need to be very, very careful on break in, using one practice session, and then put them away for at least 24 hrs (not overnight); preferably a week. This break in is required to get the maximum life.
Your tire life is low compared to what some at the Miata forums indicate.
What's really odd is the recommended hot pressure -- almost 7 pounds under what the RA-1s run.
Even Hoosier admits these tires are light and fragile and they do not recommend John Deere excursions offtrack.

The use of the R6 as a spec tire (aka SM6 in Miata-land) also requires a dedicated rain-only tire.
The breaks down to at least two sets of R6s -- one set broken in and one set ready to break in and a set of wets which can't really be cycled in to replace the drys.

 

[colin_koehler]

Colin -- Do you follow the Hoosier recommendations for breaking them in?
They say here that you need to be very, very careful on break in, using one practice session, and then put them away for at least 24 hrs (not overnight); preferably a week. This break in is required to get the maximum life.
Your tire life is low compared to what some at the Miata forums indicate.
What's really odd is the recommended hot pressure -- almost 7 pounds under what the RA-1s run.
Even Hoosier admits these tires are light and fragile and they do not recommend John Deere excursions offtrack..

If anyone has done there research involving tires it's me. Actually Hoosier has a FWD recommendation that says you might need to run them as high as 48 psi. We've found that they actually prefer 2-3 psi MORE than the RA1's to increase their life span AND be just as effective at the end of the race as the beginning.

In severe cases front tire pressures for FWD vehicles can run in the 48-52 psi (hot). In cases where the tire size is limited to a relatively
small tire, the required pressure can run even higher. The front to rear pressure differential on FWD cars can have extreme ranges of
inflation, depending on the driver preference, suspension tuning, and track configuration.

I would like to think that I would have a bit more success with them and I will give them another shot in the future but right now I'm still liking the Hankook C51 and the Goodyear RS DOT.

 

[MikeA]

Most of the 944s run R6's... Of course Eric is different( BFG R1) but holds his own. I see most of the guys race on them til 20 sessions and often move them to practice quali only stints another 6-8 times.

Dead r6s are still faster than ra1s in any 944.


I am jealous of the $173 price tag as we pay $228/ea!

 

[Turfer]

Colin has ADD, ADHD, and couple of other disorders that make him change horses mid stream with a great deal of frequency. :tongue: Next time you're around him, shout out squirrel and watch. :wink:

I get well into the 20 heat cycle range on my SM6's. I bought 3 sets earlier this year when HoosierTireWest has their sale for $157/tire shipping included. I am still on set #1, set #2 has had their break in cycle and one 30 minute race, set #3 is still waiting their turn. Maybe I'll use them at the enduro.

R

 

[colin_koehler]

Colin has ADD, ADHD, and couple of other disorders that make him change horses mid stream with a great deal of frequency. :tongue: Next time you're around him, shout out squirrel and watch. :wink:

 

[Steve Adams]

Oh, win.