Open Wheel Driver's Training

How about this Wes and all... I'm trying to put together a day with ProFormance right now, during the second half of the last week of this month. We're working with the design of two run groups, one being race cars, one being street cars with experienced drivers. What if we could have one group of "door slammers" and one with open wheel cars? We'd run on/off with 1/2 hour run groups, you'd get more seat time then the car/tires could handle in a day...

I'll need to check on a couple of things with Don Kitch, but if we can do this I'd need at least 12-15 OW cars. Assuming we could get a couple of experienced drivers in the mix, we'd have the formula for a great "learning" situation for the less experienced drivers that run in the open wheel classes. There would be oportunity for lead/follow with lots of time for debriefs and there'd be some pretty knowledable staff at some of the corners taking notes that can be shared between sessions. (typical ProFormance style) As Randy said, it's takes a unique approach to get some quality time for OW drivers; this could be one way of meeting that need. Let me know directly (as apposed to this thread) if there is some serious interest in this type of program and I'll make it happen. If it's quiet and no one responds, then it'll be just another day of production cars running around Pacific Raceways...

Wes Hill
206-769-9516
wes.hill@earthlink.net
 
This is good!!

Wes:

If I can get my car ready and do not have a flight schedule conflict, I would be very interesting in doing this.

I appreciate your efforts in organizing this.

Please let us know as soon as you formalize all the details.

J.C.
 
Rick you are totally correct.For our purposes the 2 seat street car is the best choice for instruction of the basics, and they apply no matter what you intend to race.For open wheelers, using the resource of more senior and experienced drivers as mentors is the most effective way to improve .
for the really serious there are commercially available single seater schools out there and also driver coaches. However I do applaud the discussion and efforts to accomodate he needs of all our racers.

R Stec
Driving Master
SCCBC
 
And once again, Mr. Hill is going out of his way to help other Conference members.

This time with just such an opportunity for seasoned open wheel drivers.

I only hope that a minimum number of drivers will take advantage of this opportunity, for their fellow open wheel driver's sakes, so the economics work.
 
JC, I need more then 1 OW to be able to put this together. A minimum of 12 or so cars are needed to have a run session. I'll work with Don to get this together if we can get the car count. As far as the date goes, I've tried to explain in the other thread that it's really going to depend on the weather. We've tentatively got the day scheduled for Saturday, the 28th. However, if that looks like it will be the worst weather day, we'll probably move it up a day or so. I realize that won't work for a lot of drivers, however scheduling on a lousy rain day doesn't usually work for anybody.

I'll check back in by Tuesday, but if you're interested, and we can make the date work, you've got to get more OW drivers to express some interest...
 
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There are 3 other things going on the 28th of Feb.

Speedware open house
RATS meeting
Data seminar at DND

Several of which 'we' want to attend. And to top it off, Jeff's car is sitting IN DND at this moment for some work. As a final blow, weekdays don't work (rather, there's work on weekdays).

Guess we'll miss out on this most excellent open wheel day with Proformance :( Maybe next time.
 
I do want to make this very clear: If this date doesn't work, as long as there is some interest in making an event like this happen, I will work to organize a day like this later in the spring where we can get open wheels cars out to the track for a low key training/testing/fun/whatever kind of day. That's really why we have these silly cars, right?

This was just a shot in the dark and kind of a last minute idea and it shows... I've had very little response or interest from the OW crowd and I think/hope it's because of the scheduling. This date could still happen, but I'll need some genuine interest to push it. If not, for those couple of you that have shown interest, contact a few in your comunity and then we'll put one together mid spring?
 
You need to pick a day far enough out that you can publicize it in the printed Conference Memo. You need every OW guy know about it. This forum is probably only touching 25% of the membership, if that.
 
I'd agree that if it takes someone from outside of the open wheel ranks to organize an open wheel practice/training/coaching day, a date further out would probably be helpful for people to plan. On the other hand, experience has shown that many short notice opportunities can and will become fully subscribed rather quickly, if the enthusiasm level is high.

One would hope that given the relatively smaller and unique population, the info would naturally be distributed from person to person directly and a formal advertisement would be unnecessary, or that someone within the group would take an informal leadership role to make that happen.
 
Interested

For me it is the scheduling. I did not have plans in place to have the car ready so soon. I would be very interested in a spring date and would do everything I could to attend. Thank you for the effort being put out for this.
 
Randy, I have been off line for the last week, but to answer your question, no, I am not talking about OW drivers looking for more experience. That would be a T&T issue for them, or private coaching via Bondurant, Barber, etc. I'm talking about raw novices who wish to race an OW car from the get-go.
We pride ourselves on being a family of racers where everyone is welcome, with whatever car they drag to the track. So it would seem a bit odd to me to ask the OW people to rent a track and basically conduct their own school. We all need to adhere to the same rules and procedures for our organization to function at it's highest level.
I agree with Rick, as I usually do, that our schools are not about the car, but all about learning at a safe controlled pace. This has been kicked around forever it would seem, but is it safe to teach a student in his Rabbit or RX7 and then turn him loose in group 6 in his FV or FF with no previous track time in that particular car? I am not trying to be confrontational, (honest), but I am asking if that is a wise course of action? Last year worked well from what we were told, but there were novices in group 6 who had the crap scared out of them with the very fast cars that show up in that race group. Did we, or will we lose some of those people because they really didn't understand what they were facing as an OW novice in a senior group?
If a training session for OW novices was organized and sanctioned by Conference, under your supervision, then I think it would work well. Karen has thrown out the challenge by what she offered in Portland last year, and I see that growing as we go, or hopefully so.
We did a 'lead and follow' during one of my IRDC schools a half dozen years ago, and it worked quite well. The CW students were able to observe from the corners and see cars they probably knew nothing about before that day, and the couple of novices out there gained some invaluable experience following a few senior drivers around.
So perhaps an abbreviated session or two during the day to get them acclimated to the track and their OW car? Possibly a lunch hour scenario, or some time toward the end of the day?
 
My most basic responsibilities as License Director are to ensure core competencies. These core competencies are represented in the curriculum of the Driver Training programs offered by the ICSCC member clubs, and do not include experience in any particular kind of race car. Let me say this again, the core competencies of the Driver Training program do not include experience in any particular type of race car.

Is it wise to offer a forum where raw novices can get some experience specific to unique types of race cars? Probably. But, this objective cannot and will not take away from, or diminish the curriculum of the Driver Training programs.

The question then becomes, how to accomplish this objective? It's my opinion that it's within the prerogative of each member club to look at the time they have available in their Driver Training program, and allocate a session to this objective at their discretion. Or, offer a separate day and curriculum specific to one type of car if they wish. The raw reality we all must accept is that this decision is a practical matter that will have a basis in economics, tempered by esprit de corp, for better or worse.

It's at this point that I will point out, that it is the responsibility of the open wheel members themselves, not Conference administration, to rally the open wheel troops to attend these opportunities and ensure their continuation, and hopefully, growth. I have had discussions with many different parties within and outside of Conference, and it's a fact that open wheel training and recruitment opportunities have been presented in the past, and have simply not been utilized, or accutely under-utilized to the point of economic infeasibility. If and when opportunities present themselves, they need to be well subscribed to continue.

Now, if someone wants to take a leadership role and look at possible ways to get open wheel novices some experience in a way that doesn't interfere with the basic Driver Training curriculum, I will certainly support that 100%.
 
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I don't see anyone pointing fingers Randy, but I do see a few concerned people trying to work out possible solutions. If that is an issue for you or anyone else, so be it; it needs to be discussed regardless of any one particualr opinion, pro or con.
I have been doing this for over 34 years, and I am not familiar with these unused opportunities that you speak of in regard to OW training, but rather a lack of opportunities over those years. Your mission, as you stated is to ensure this core competence doctrine. So you are apparently not the proper person to discuss this with, and I will as I said speak with our IRDC chief instructor and also with Karen since she is already ahead of the curve on this issue.
I will admit that this is not a priority at this point, and doesn't come up that often with most of our clubs. Either way a more equitable method of training OW novices needs to be addressed and eventually implemented. As groups 3 and 6 continue to grow, it will become more of a concern down the road, and we have the chance now to work out programs to implement when the need arises.
Thanks for your thoughts on this one.

Wes
 
Open Wheel Training Day

>>JC, I need more then 1 OW to be able to put this together. A minimum of 12 or so cars are needed to have a run session.<<

Wes, again, I am impressed by your proactive approach to solving this issue. Apparently, the issue has found some validity amongst the OW and the rest of our racing community. We owe you a great deal of gratitude on this matter.

In order for me to participate it will entail knowing about the session at least one month in advance. My schedules are bid a month in advanced and once they are awarded, it is very difficult to change them.

Being able to participate this month,for me, it is going to be next to impossible. I have carburetor and electric problems and I have not had an opportunity to address the issues. Showing up at the tract with a sick engine is not going to help me or anyone else.

I will jump through hoops in we can get something organized next month.

How many people are interested in doing this?

Can we get 12 OW to sign up?

J.C.
 
A thought for future months.

JC,

First off, great seeing your (virtual) smiling face again!

To the point, I think what Wes is doing for the racing community in general, some enterprising OW'er could do for your group.

Wes has gotten with Don Kitch (actually, Donna, who we all know REALLY runs things) and figured out a day that was available at the track, and tried to get a bunch of cars (some combination of 12 tin-tops, 12 OW's and/or 12 street machines, since these groups don't mix well together on the track) to fill up two run groups, hence his invitation to the open wheelers. As I understand it, a minimum of 12 cars per run group is what it takes to make this economically viable.

Given that the date is right around the corner, and weather dependent, it is understandable that the OW crowd can't field the required number of cars to exclusively field a 12 car run group. What I would recommend for the future is taking a look at Proformance's schedule (www.proformanceracingschool.com) and see if the OW guys could get 12 cars together for any of the dates that are shown on the schedule, talk to Don (Donna), and "take over" a run group. This would give you exclusive use of the track for that run group, and, probably with some discussion with Don, allow a more open format for that run group, vs. the normal four passing zone format that is usually employed.

A great by-product of this is that if you got a run group to yourselves, the "other group", presumably lapping street cars or a HPDE class, would get to see the fun you guys are having driving a race car in general, and an OW car in particular, thus beginning the cycle of sucking more people into our addiction (I mean, ummm, introducing them to the joys of automobile racing).

This is not my original idea, BTW. Pro3's own Lance Richert (Senior VP of Pro3 Worldwide Marketing) hooked up with Don earlier this year and secured two slots in the Proformance schedule for Pro3, with the express intent of getting our cars out there to "test and tune", as well as introducing driving enthusiasts in the opposite run group to racing/racers.

Free advice, and worth every penny.

Cheers! See you out there this summer, my friend.

Dan
Pro3 #102
 
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Test Day

I would be interested in participating if it was scheduled between now and the first conference race weather depending.
 
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