Littlevees
Jim Venable
Perhaps like myself, you're still undecided as to which tire to run this year. Hoosier or Toyo. If you don't mind, what brand are you planning on running this year?
Appreciated,
Jim
Appreciated,
Jim
Miata Competitors - Tire Choice
- Thread starter Littlevees
- Start date
Bill Bonsell
Well-known member
Hey Jim...it's either Hoosier this year or the Toyo RA-1 so pick you poison. Initial speed or more tire life. I'll be on Toyo's as I can't afford the shorter life of the Hoosier. Next year we have to run Hoosier (per SCCA and ICSCC rules) UNLESS we have a rules change. I am going to propose one for SM 2014. Either an open tire...run what you want....or the Toyo RA-1 or RR for dry and either the RA-1 or Hoosier H2O for rain. Personally I'd opt for the Toyo RR and the Hoosier H2O...
Will be soliciting opinions from fellow SM competitors up until the proposal needs to go in. Needless to say I was upset with SCCA's decision to designate Hoosier for their regional races. Not very inclusive IMO.
Will be soliciting opinions from fellow SM competitors up until the proposal needs to go in. Needless to say I was upset with SCCA's decision to designate Hoosier for their regional races. Not very inclusive IMO.
KyleKeenan
Well-known member
Not sure what the shorter life is about with the hoosier, I'm just as fast on 20-25 run takeoffs as I am on brand new tires at Portland......
I'm just going to run whatever I've got stacked up in the shop. Team Miatacage at Thunderhill's National race ran 3 different tires on 4 different cars and all were within tenths laptime wise.
I'm just going to run whatever I've got stacked up in the shop. Team Miatacage at Thunderhill's National race ran 3 different tires on 4 different cars and all were within tenths laptime wise.
Bill Bonsell
Well-known member
Kyle....are you really implying no drop off after 20-25 heat cycles on Hoosiers? That just seems to run counter with what most drivers are conveying on the various forums. I think most Conference SM racers would prefer to run Toyos, but time will tell.
JRaines341
Member
Well you can't really call it a "spec" series if the tires are open.. No experience on Hoosiers myself but if that turns into the only tire we can run. So be it. I'd like it to stay the RA1 but only because that's all I know.
Littlevees
Jim Venable
Bill wrote: Will be soliciting opinions from fellow SM competitors up until the proposal needs to go in.
Good idea. Perhaps a couple of brief meetings with SM drivers/owners after a Saturday or Sunday drivers meeting. I would think one about three to four races in and one just before the rules deadline should suffice.
Good idea. Perhaps a couple of brief meetings with SM drivers/owners after a Saturday or Sunday drivers meeting. I would think one about three to four races in and one just before the rules deadline should suffice.
Bill Bonsell
Well-known member
Jason...there are numerous SCCA regions which in fact have a open tire rule for SM for regional racing only. While the national tire is Hoosier, regions can,set their own rules which is what SCCA Oregon did by specing Hoosier for regional racing. This means Conference MUST run Hoosier in 2014 unless we change the rules. I already know of several drivers preferring not to spend more money on tires in 2014. An open tire rule is certainly the most racer friendly, but certainly could see a scenario where we change the rules to spec Toyo RA1 or RR for dry and the Hoosier H2O for rain, which is a plan I could enthusiastically support. Would be interesting to see how the dozen or so other SM racers feel. Need to actually solicit opinions, document them and put forth a rule change proposal based on consensus.
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colin_koehler
Great SCOTT!
SM6, Toyo RR and what else? Also, thanks for that feedback.
KyleKeenan
Well-known member
Absolutely. Racing is such a monkey-see-monkey-do industry. Brian Summers gave me a set of take-offs after Doernbecher last year, and I ran 5 races on them, fastest time of a 1:32.0. Fastest I've ever driven at Portland on those tires, no noticable gains from the front-runners that race meaning that old tires are fast as are a scrubbed set.
RA-1, RR, BFG, and Hoosier.
Greg Miller
Well-known member
Better check with Toyo before making a rule change. They tried to drop the RA1 once and may again especially with the RR coming on and with SM going to Hoosier. We in PRO3 are at the mercy of larger qty users like SM so we will be making inquiries of Toyo before rule change day.
Littlevees
Jim Venable
Had a nice conversation with Jim Drago today. For those who may not know, Drago is the 2012 SCCA National Champion in Spec Miata. Here's his take on Hoosiers. Different guidelines apply for the rain tire.
If you're a poll contender or front runner, a set of new scuffed stickers is the ticket for most tracks. Unlike the R1 which gets faster as it works it's way to cording depending on the amount of sessions, the Hoosier drops off an average of .3 to .5 a lap after 2 to 6 sessions depending on the track and remains there until the tire goes away. Note: When it goes away it goes away with no warning despite plenty of remaining rubber. The tire is history. While the tire is still good after six sessions for most tracks, he changes after four to six sessions for most tracks. Most serious National racers do so. Rough tracks will eat the tire quickly if not cured properly. More later. Sessions are practice, qualify and race. New or slightly used tires for cold days. Warm to mildly hot days depends on the track. Very hot days seem to work best on older tires if the surface is smooth to medium. Rough tracks on a hot day varies. Some tracks won't fit into any of the above so testing is in order. While national and local front runners need to change often to stay up front, mid-packers can expect to get 15 to 20 sessions on a smooth track, medium 10 to 12 and rough 6 to 10 if the tire was cured properly.
Curing process. To get the maximum life from a Hoosier it's important to bring new tires up to speed slowly. Run a couple of laps at two thirds to three quarters speed. Caution. Due to the factory coating on new tires that needs to be scrubbed off, the car will feel very loose for a couple of laps, hence the reason for the slower initial speed. Driving around one's neighborhood will not work. Feel free to drive it once the car is stable so as to obtain a proper racing temperature. Four to six laps is usually sufficient. Longer is okay. Remove, store out of the sun or cover and do not use for at least 24 hours. A week or longer is preferable if optional.
No doubt there are varying opinions based on one's experience and worth studying. Perhaps Jim's experience will be of some benefit.
If you're a poll contender or front runner, a set of new scuffed stickers is the ticket for most tracks. Unlike the R1 which gets faster as it works it's way to cording depending on the amount of sessions, the Hoosier drops off an average of .3 to .5 a lap after 2 to 6 sessions depending on the track and remains there until the tire goes away. Note: When it goes away it goes away with no warning despite plenty of remaining rubber. The tire is history. While the tire is still good after six sessions for most tracks, he changes after four to six sessions for most tracks. Most serious National racers do so. Rough tracks will eat the tire quickly if not cured properly. More later. Sessions are practice, qualify and race. New or slightly used tires for cold days. Warm to mildly hot days depends on the track. Very hot days seem to work best on older tires if the surface is smooth to medium. Rough tracks on a hot day varies. Some tracks won't fit into any of the above so testing is in order. While national and local front runners need to change often to stay up front, mid-packers can expect to get 15 to 20 sessions on a smooth track, medium 10 to 12 and rough 6 to 10 if the tire was cured properly.
Curing process. To get the maximum life from a Hoosier it's important to bring new tires up to speed slowly. Run a couple of laps at two thirds to three quarters speed. Caution. Due to the factory coating on new tires that needs to be scrubbed off, the car will feel very loose for a couple of laps, hence the reason for the slower initial speed. Driving around one's neighborhood will not work. Feel free to drive it once the car is stable so as to obtain a proper racing temperature. Four to six laps is usually sufficient. Longer is okay. Remove, store out of the sun or cover and do not use for at least 24 hours. A week or longer is preferable if optional.
No doubt there are varying opinions based on one's experience and worth studying. Perhaps Jim's experience will be of some benefit.
I completely agree with Jim Drago's opinion about the tires. It totally depended on Driving style, track surface, temps, hill's to climb or flat track as to what tire to use. Its a very hard call when it comes to a rule change. It would be a shame not to be allowed to use Toyo's for 2014.
Then again, you get the those fast experienced guys from SCCA who seem to be able to make whatever they have work for them just fine. Someday, I'll get to that point ; P
Then again, you get the those fast experienced guys from SCCA who seem to be able to make whatever they have work for them just fine. Someday, I'll get to that point ; P
Bill Bonsell
Well-known member
Good point Greg. Would certainly want to make sure the RA-1 is available as well as the RR. NASA is a huge Toyo user so will be interesting to see if they move to the RR exclusively in their spec classes, which very well may happen and hasten the demise of the RA-1.
Bill Bonsell
Well-known member
Yeah, all those fast SCCA guys who you never see at a Conference race. A couple of the mid guys will jump in occasionally, but you just don't see SCCA entering even though they tell us what tires we have to run based upon the current rules. How would you feel about an open tire rule in Conference SM? I am hoping you can gather some feedback down in Portland and the May race in Seattle. I will miss both of them. I would simply see if everyone is wanting to run Hoosier in 2014 or some other tire. Or combination. Toyo dry and Hoosier wet in 2014 sounds good to me, but we need to see where everyone else is. And obviously you are hugely important in this discussion as is Mark, Phil, Andy, Dave, etc, etc....