How to get more spectators at races?

Way back up there, the discussion was about spectators being able to follow the action. How can they know who is truly racing who unless the class designations are clearly visible? The car number issue has been brought up at R.O.D. meetings for years. When there is a crash, the workers have to be able to tell the folks in the tower WHO crashed. Why? Got any friends or family in the pits wondering what happened? We have to write up reports, so again we need to know who crashed. Spectators trying to follow the races need to be able to know who is who out there. Rick's numbers are easy to read, but what about that black rabbit with the dark colored numbers. The volunteers other than T&S don't have computers showing transponder info, but must rely on numbers and class designations. I can usually keep track of the group on course, but I won't even pretend to attempt to remember every class that is in a given group. There are too many. But if the class designations on the cars are only for the group that is on course, it makes it possible to figure out the group, in case I or the spectators on the hill lose track. When you work as many races and for as many different organizations as I do, they all blend together. There are cars out there that have been the sore spot for far too long. If it bugs the volunteers, is it going to help the casual spectator to keep track of the event?
 
rick_bostrom said:
...Is it too much to ask that those filling out reports know what group they are watching? (That is a real question, no smart ass switch required or intended.)
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I don't think so. When filling out an incident report you NEED to specify the Run Group and the car NUMBERS/COLORS involved... there is no mention of what 'class' of cars they are.
 
Is it too much to ask that those filling out reports know what group they are watching? (That is a real question, no smart ass switch required or intended.)[/QUOTE] :confused:

No Rick, I just went through that. I've submitted that the rule you've emitted should just as well be omitted. You can not possiblly be held in violation of 1106.G. The "car" did not put tape over the class designation which was not current for the group that you gridded for, so ekiM would be forced to penalize your car for that violation. But that's ridiculous, right? So you have a good appeal thing set up there, okay?

Still, however, the form that we (the official course worker/volunteers) must prepare for the sanction's notifications has a box for Senior Race Group, Novice Race Group, OW, and CW, then the next line is titled Class(es) of cars on track. So those cars are responsible for providing us with that information.

Are ya still with me? :)

I may very well know what Group is supposed to be on the track. I may not very well know what the list of Classes are running within that group off the top of my head. Especially, if it's later in the weekend, and I've already lost my copy of the schedule, if I ever actually had one. The point being that I have to be able to fill in the blanks, right?

If class designation on the sides of the car are deemed unnecessary because everybody already knows who you are, when you run, every weekend, and at every track, then we need to take the 'class' references off of all of those officially sanctioned ICSCC forms also. It might be considered discriminatory, after all.

And as Randy may have implied, "Who needs 'em".

On the other hand, that may be a good question/thread for the Rule Changes section.

Could you make your Group #s really large, mark out the ones that don't relate to the Group # that you are entered to be running at the time, and try not to let them interfere with the actual car numbers, please?

That would make things much easier, because as they may not actually tell you themselves, the Pre-Grid personel are not really supposed to be part of anyones Pit Crew.

Thanks. ;)
 
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I still completely don't understand what my numbers or car designators have to do with making the pre-grid personnel part of my pit crew. (Not that I wouldn't want to make them my pit crew, because it seems like I have always really liked them, and strangely enough, they seem to like me back! But their inexplicable bad taste is a whole other topic.)

I read a complaint in that other organizations court of appeals a few years ago where someone was incensed that the corner workers wanted him to change his numbers to something more readable. I think it was silver and purple lettering in some pretty heavy graphics on a silver car. I'm completely with the volunteers in a case where the numbers are simply hard to read because of size or contrast issues.

I can see where to a casual observer, it would be a plus to know exactly what class various car are running in. Our schedules of mixed Groups are pretty hard to figure out for the uninitiated - I will freely admit that.

When it comes to noticing a hood pin is loose or helping me with a poorly adjusted mirror, or even sticking a piece of tape over an unneeded class designator down in pregrid, it goes a bit far to suggest that is "making them a part of my pit crew". It has always felt like a chance to bond with the pregrid personnel and a very real indication that they are looking out for me, for which I am grateful. I refuse to view those as some odious burden that I am placing on them and that it in turn makes them hate us for some reason.

Is there even a slight chance this is getting blown completely out of porportion for some reason?
 
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Yes, this is getting blown out of proportion. The reference to the pre-grid folks being part of a drivers pit crew is the business of giving them even more to do. Consider a large grid of cars, say 40, at least half of which show up just before the 5 minute warning. These folks are running around trying to get everyone in their place, check the cars for really important stuff like hood pins, window nets, gloves, arm restraints, etc. etc. Then they have to dig out their own roll of tape to fix some drivers class by marking out the other classes. Have a heart guys. If you came to grid ready to go, they would have more time to visit with you. Having worked pre-grid in the past, I always enjoyed such visits, but if I'm running my fat a$$ off trying to deal with a large grid, the last thing I want is to have to fix a drivers mistake in preparing his car. As a turn worker, when I have to fill out one of those report forms Kenny showed us, I'm going to look for the class on the side of the car. You know the one that your car is supposed to fix, not some human, according to the rules. If there is more than one class on the car, I have to go dig out a schedule to try and figure out which class you were running this time. No, I don't have the list of classes in every group memorized. This whole thing can be made much easier. Either by putting all cars in the same class or by fixing the numbers and class designations so they can be read by a stationary observer while you are going past at 100+ mph 50+ yards away from said observer. Drivers make the rules in Conference.........
 
Drivers make the rules in Conference
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Right, which is why we amended the rule last year so that we would NOT have to "line out" a class designation that's in a different run group than the other class(es) on the car, if any.

Now, if the class designation(s) are hard to see because they're too small or have too little contrast, that's another story.
 
Steve Adams said:
Right, which is why we amended the rule last year so that we would NOT have to "line out" a class designation that's in a different run group than the other class(es) on the car, if any.QUOTE]

Which is one reason that the casual and not-so-casual watchers don't have a clue which classes are on track. Five cars go by and each has three class designations on it. Unless one wants to dig out a schedule and read through the 15 or so classes in some of the groups and do an analysis of the possible combinations, how is an individual supposed to know who is racing who out there. This whole thread is about spectators, but has spread into more than that with the challenges that we workers face when trying to identify cars and classes. Taking class designation off of the reports isn't going to help the spectators we have been discussing.

Personally I have no desire to see lots of spectaators at our events. With all of the Pro events I've worked in over 30 years on the turns, spectators are more trouble than they are worth to me. Your mileage may vary and I realize that a tiny percentage of spectators will get involved in some form. You need to have lots of security and PR people available to keep them safe and happy. We don't have lots of people volunteering anymore. The days of having 6 people on each and every turn station for every event are long gone. So where is the money for all these security guards and PR people going to come from? We certainly don't have enough volunteers for this kind of thing. Food for thought.
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Do you guys remember how you got started in working and racing? I know I got started by watching and wondering how i can get down to where those people in white are. Then my mother got involved and i finally got the chance. People keep complaining about not enough volunteers, but if we dont have people watching and wondering then we might not ever get any new volunteers.
 
I do, Jeff!

I saw a little ad in the 'Events' section of the classified ads in the Oregonian in like, Feb-March of 1984. It was announcing a Turn Worker Training in conjunction with a Cascade Sports Car Club Drivers' Training.

There was Tom McCoy's Ph#, and I was goin' ta school.

So, I suppose the 'Events' section of the local fish wrapper aren't much of an option these days, but the concept is still good.

Zero hits on a Craigslist attempt, but that was only once... it may be time to snap that for the "Endurance Week" in October.
 
robjacobsen said:
Which is one reason that the casual and not-so-casual watchers don't have a clue which classes are on track.
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I agree with you on this point. Unlike pro/semi-pro series with cars from multiple classes on track at once, and where each of those cars only HAS one class, we have multiple classes on track where each car could be in multiple classes all by itself. My car can run in, what, 7 different classes between us, SCCA, NASA, and BMW Club Racing? I could wallpaper my car with the classes it COULD run.
 
That has been one of the great worries that goes along with increased spectator counts Rob. We discuss this stuff all the time at our board meetings - increased spectator counts are likely to have a beneficial effect on recruiting volunteers and if it gets popular enough to make a little bit of money on tickets it also helps us control the costs that are passed on to the racers. Unfortunately, it seems like you can't afford to get caught in "no man's land". With esentially no outside spectators we can operate with a minimum of security and a limited number of spectator areas open. If we have a lot of spectators, their ticket would ideally pay for the increased amount of security and organization needed to keep them out of harms way - a very real concern that has been voiced by corner crews. Worst possible outcome is getting just enough spectators to require additional expenditure without any hope of enough ticket sales to justify it. At that point the membership are paying to have people watch!

We at IRDC are lucky enough to have had an young, energetic, and professional member step up during the last year to start addressing marketing issues. He has some great ideas and we just scratched the surface this year. It looks like he is trying to hit next year on the fly, so he is working on some ideas that will bring people out who are better targeted to the racing demographic. Personally, I would be happy even if the marketing/spectator program was revenue neutral (classic O-speak) but had a positive effect on bringing out prospective volunteers and drivers.

At any rate, our marketing position is filled by Bryce King who is a personable and professional young businessman who frankly shames me with his enthusiasm and positive attitude. He welcomes input and participation, so if anyone really has a vision that they want to see implimented rather than just talking about it I would encourage you to attend one of his marketing meetings. Open to anyone and positively proactive about promoting races in our region.
 
Yes, Jeff, I remember how I got involved. Back in 1970, while I was still in high school in San Diego, one of my friends, who was the son of an SCCA Steward, introduced me to road rallying while the ink was drying on my drivers license. Shortly after that, I became a member of Explorer Post 901 which was sponsored by his dad, Al Brengle, and the San Diego Region of SCCA. Between winter racess at Holtville Aerodrome International Raceway (HAIR) and rallies every friday night at starting at the San Diego Zoo parking lot, I got the bug bad and have never found a cure. I didn't start working corners until 1979 over at Deer Park, WA for Conference. Catching them young is always best, as far as I'm concerned.
 
USRRC, Trans-Am, F5000 races;
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yeah, trans am, sure, I'm driving at that level...

and anyway, who wants people watching them? Aren't we here to drive,
not to be looked at and admired for our stylish class designators?

t
 
Cool Ron, I grew up in Spokane and I seriously wanted to drive a race car for as long as I can remember. The first real live sportscar race I ever saw was a Conference race at Deer Park. Watching those cars race door to door around that track convinced me that I had been right dreaming about getting behind the wheel of a racecar. It had never seemed real to me before then, because I had never seen it in front of me with my own two eyes.

I hadn't actually seen it, maybe that dream wouldn't have burned in me for the next 30 years until I could actually afford the time and money to go racing.
 
It's too bad that all the member clubs/ICSCC couldn't spend a year or two lining up a city street race. But liability, costs, oh ya costs and liability would probably bankrupt us.
But could you just imagine it.
Holding one of our 2 day practice/qualifying/racing events on the city streets.
Wouldn't even have to be that big or long of a course.
Oh well, one can only dream and isn't it nice to live in a perfect world. All of me do.
 
Lynn Rimmer said:
It's too bad that all the member clubs/ICSCC couldn't spend a year or two lining up a city street race. But liability, costs, oh ya costs and liability would probably bankrupt us.
But could you just imagine it.
Holding one of our 2 day practice/qualifying/racing events on the city streets.
Wouldn't even have to be that big or long of a course.
Oh well, one can only dream and isn't it nice to live in a perfect world. All of me do.
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Darn straight that would be cool!

Ask KVD of the Legends group; they do this annually up in Anchorage, AK at the Fur Rendezvous festival. I last saw this many years ago and they carved the racecourse out of the snow banks lining the city streets. It was really 'cool' in so many senses of the word!

I just have to wonder...one thing I see often these days are cities attempting to create a buzz for their downtowns or just the city in general. Lots of marketing dollars being spent to create catchy slogans and motos...then the advertising to back it up...I suspect there just might be something to this, Lynn. It may not be as far-fetched as you might think!
 
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