Group 3 and 6 increase participation

I guess being in the south side of the planet and the associated forces of gravity gave them bigger balls!
 
Rich, a CF will run closer to 125+ at PR and PIR, and we were clocked at Spokane 5 or 6 years ago at 148 by a sheriff on the hill at T1 with his radar gun. We were in a 6 car train at the time and had quite a draft going, but when we checked the gear chart we realized his gun was pretty accurate. The national Fords at RA are up in the 140's now top end with all their skinny aero.
One of our guys geared way down and entered the Friday night drags at PR many years go and ran a sub 13 if memory serves me right. A little hard on the clutch but it sure was fun to watch!
 
Rick, you always have great insight. But to point out, we actually used to have 7 groups. We allowed sedans as sports racers, when those rules change to disallow this, and the sports racers (group 6) were moved to the FV group. FV's never raced with the Group 3 cars. So we've actually already lost 1 group. Not sure if the rules were changed for time restraints though, not car turnout.. I've been around awhile but I was young back then.. Sorry my facts might be mixed up as far as who moved where. but we did have a group for all 3 at one time.
 
westipton said:
Rich, a CF will run closer to 125+ at PR and PIR
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Wes,

When I said 120 in my comment about somebody else's post that was HP out of a good Kent not MPH. Geez you guys are doing way over 130's at PIR and PR I'm sure of that cause we had the FC geared for about 142 and you guys stayed real close on the straights.

Unless, you were making a post concerning something Rick Bostrom said in which case ignore this. We need to distingush ourselves. Maybe Rick B and Rick B so we can tell who you're talking to.
 
i would love to run an open wheel car and my ITA car the same weekend would be a lot of fun who knows maybe i can finish my ST car and do all 3 :)
 
Seems like a simple answer to me - Compared to OW cars, production based cars are simply easier and cheaper and there are way more of them. Sky's the limit I'm sure, but the cost of entry is much lower. My first race car (a Fiat) cost less to get on the track than a weekend does now.

From my point of view, part of the problem is that conference in general has never been too welcoming of racers who aren't 'serious'. I have a perfectly raceable CF in my garage, but have been under a bit of financial uncertainty for the last few years. I wanted desperately to make at least my local race, but spending $1000 plus for an hour or so of track time just didn't make sense. Join a club, join another club, replace my brand new belts (again), is the helmet still good (seems like I replace it every time I race), entry fee, reuse the old tires and hope it doesn't rain. And what??? I have to do a novice race again??? Oh, and there's the continuous argument that I need yet another $1000 safety item otherwise the sun will explode (hint: maybe if you didn't drive like a psycho and think you owned the planet just because you have a nose even to my back tires, there wouldn't be so much risk). I believe us non-serious racers that fill out the grids are the ones that kept it going for so long.

Years ago I called an IRDC person to express my displeasure with a big hike in entry fees and I was basically told to go f**k myself. This is why Chumpcar is cutting into Conference action. More racing, less paranoia.
 
planb said:
Seems like a simple answer to me - Compared to OW cars, production based cars are simply easier and cheaper and there are way more of them. Sky's the limit I'm sure, but the cost of entry is much lower. My first race car (a Fiat) cost less to get on the track than a weekend does now.

From my point of view, part of the problem is that conference in general has never been too welcoming of racers who aren't 'serious'. I have a perfectly raceable CF in my garage, but have been under a bit of financial uncertainty for the last few years. I wanted desperately to make at least my local race, but spending $1000 plus for an hour or so of track time just didn't make sense. Join a club, join another club, replace my brand new belts (again), is the helmet still good (seems like I replace it every time I race), entry fee, reuse the old tires and hope it doesn't rain. And what??? I have to do a novice race again??? Oh, and there's the continuous argument that I need yet another $1000 safety item otherwise the sun will explode (hint: maybe if you didn't drive like a psycho and think you owned the planet just because you have a nose even to my back tires, there wouldn't be so much risk). I believe us non-serious racers that fill out the grids are the ones that kept it going for so long.

Years ago I called an IRDC person to express my displeasure with a big hike in entry fees and I was basically told to go f**k myself. This is why Chumpcar is cutting into Conference action. More racing, less paranoia.
Click to expand...

Goddamn! I'm about six drinks into my evening and that just about sobered me up...
 
planb said:
This is why Chumpcar is cutting into Conference action. More racing, less paranoia.
Click to expand...

I participated in last year's ChumpCar race at PIR. It's a totally different animal than Conference, SCCA, NASA, etc. and I don't think it's affecting Conference much, if at all. Conference had some huge fields last year. And, having talked to several car owners at last year's ChumpCar race, the cost to field a car (even if it starts out as a $500 POS) is not that cheap.
 
At the risk of high jacking this thread, whose subject I am very concerned about, I need to respond to the entry fee remark. When the Seattle track charges $10,400 per day for track rental plus we have to pay another 5-6k for tow trucks ambulances, etc., etc., etc. The entry fees are a serious concern for any club that wants to continue to put on races and continue to exist to put on races for the following year. Would lowering the entry fee $20.00 bring out more entrys?

I am not against combining 3 and 6 but if we do that we need to attact a new group of cars that will increase our entry numbers and hopefully not from an existing class of cars presently in Conference. There needs to be serious outside the box thinking. Is it Vintage, SRF, Legends, FSAE, Hornets!!? Ground pounders?of some sort/class? Lap attacks, 944 cup car series, Special races combining existing classes. IMHO the key to any club's racing survival is increased entrys. However that can be achieved is in the hands of the local clubs and their creative thinking. Conference has the ability to be flexible and accomodate the clubs without long periods of delay and mind numbing debate. Of course that is always debatable.

And of course if you increase entry numbers enough and permanently there is always the possibility of lowered entry fees. LOL I remember when entry fees were $65.00 and going to Deer Park and being amazed at watching our satellites go over as the sun set. At least I thought they were ours.
 
dick_boggs said:
......And of course if you increase entry numbers enough and permanently there is always the possibility of lowered entry fees. LOL I remember when entry fees were $65.00 and going to Deer Park and being amazed at watching our satellites go over as the sun set. At least I thought they were ours.
Click to expand...

It would be good if the club were proactive and began to look at some way to reduce entry fees, Dick. Be it spectators, new class's and cars for another run group, etc.

What I worry about is, with Sonoma Raceway and Laguna Seca, the San Francisco regions entry fees are running $350 to $500 a weekend. THAT would reduce the number of 'weekend' racers in ICSCC if the numbers ever go that high before every body's income doubles again :) And that number is so high, people just won't look at road racing as a possible recreational activity. If nothing else, MUCH cheaper to go oval racing.
 
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I think an Oregon region SCCA regional at PIR already runs close to $500 doesn't it?

BTW -- I remember the first race my dad entered when the entry fees crossed the $100 mark... he was pissed, now most of us don't blink at a $200 entry fee.
 
$350 for the March school. Of which there are no OW signed up. Probably a good way to get some track time.

$315 for a Vintage/Regional, with $140 for second entry. Current ICSCC licenses are honored... usually.

Weird though. There's a $165 second entry if you're using a second car. ORSCCA's on motorsportsreg.com. There's a link to the schedule.
 
Ah my bad. Maybe I was thinking of the doiuble regional or something... Or maybe I was just thinking of the cummulative $$ with a double entry...
 
dick_boggs said:
At the risk of high jacking this thread, whose subject I am very concerned about, I need to respond to the entry fee remark. When the Seattle track charges $10,400 per day for track rental plus we have to pay another 5-6k for tow trucks ambulances, etc., etc., etc. The entry fees are a serious concern for any club that wants to continue to put on races and continue to exist to put on races for the following year. Would lowering the entry fee $20.00 bring out more entrys?

I am not against combining 3 and 6 but if we do that we need to attact a new group of cars that will increase our entry numbers and hopefully not from an existing class of cars presently in Conference. There needs to be serious outside the box thinking. Is it Vintage, SRF, Legends, FSAE, Hornets!!? Ground pounders?of some sort/class? Lap attacks, 944 cup car series, Special races combining existing classes. IMHO the key to any club's racing survival is increased entrys. However that can be achieved is in the hands of the local clubs and their creative thinking. Conference has the ability to be flexible and accomodate the clubs without long periods of delay and mind numbing debate. Of course that is always debatable.

And of course if you increase entry numbers enough and permanently there is always the possibility of lowered entry fees. LOL I remember when entry fees were $65.00 and going to Deer Park and being amazed at watching our satellites go over as the sun set. At least I thought they were ours.
Click to expand...

Dick

I have to agree 100% that if 3/6 are combined, or not, the net result for all the clubs needs to be increase in total entry/revenue numbers. We cannot forget that 3/6 cars generally are single entry, full price racers, so we would need to pick up more than 1 (either 2 for 1 or 3 for every 2 depending on how one chooses to argue the issue) second entry for every group 3/6 car that decides to race no more or somewhere else as a result of the combination.

I also support your point about encouraging the solutions to be local. Each track/club has unique strengths and problems. A solution at one track can create a problem at another. So in my mind it only makes sense to keep the control in local hands, especially when the existing regs provide a solution. For example we commonly combine 3/6 at Spokane, if for no other reason than getting the workers out of the heat earlier.

Like you I do not have a problem with combining 3/6. My preference would be to combine 3/6 for practice and quali, but not for races. If this were done on a no special race weekend at PR each group would get arround 100 minutes of track time.

Having raced both sports racers and formula cars I know which one I am more likely to stick into a tight spot, so I would rather race in an all OW group (one of the primary reasons I run ICSCC).

Are lap attacks the same as track trials? i.e. street cars with limited passing etc.?
 
planb said:
Seems like a simple answer to me - Compared to OW cars, production based cars are simply easier and cheaper and there are way more of them. Sky's the limit I'm sure, but the cost of entry is much lower. My first race car (a Fiat) cost less to get on the track than a weekend does now.

From my point of view, part of the problem is that conference in general has never been too welcoming of racers who aren't 'serious'. I have a perfectly raceable CF in my garage, but have been under a bit of financial uncertainty for the last few years. I wanted desperately to make at least my local race, but spending $1000 plus for an hour or so of track time just didn't make sense. Join a club, join another club, replace my brand new belts (again), is the helmet still good (seems like I replace it every time I race), entry fee, reuse the old tires and hope it doesn't rain. And what??? I have to do a novice race again??? Oh, and there's the continuous argument that I need yet another $1000 safety item otherwise the sun will explode (hint: maybe if you didn't drive like a psycho and think you owned the planet just because you have a nose even to my back tires, there wouldn't be so much risk). I believe us non-serious racers that fill out the grids are the ones that kept it going for so long.

Years ago I called an IRDC person to express my displeasure with a big hike in entry fees and I was basically told to go f**k myself. This is why Chumpcar is cutting into Conference action. More racing, less paranoia.
Click to expand...

Gary

Did you like any of the ideas directed towards getting non-"serious" racers back on the track that I proposed at the start of this thread?

Not a lot that any of us can do wrt up to date safety gear. There are a couple of companies that will reweb belts at a considerable cost savings. As for the Hans debate, hot air is free.

All that said I would love to share the track at Spokane with you this year.

No telling how many racers are put off by the novice race requirement to get licensed again. Seems like a drivers record and a few observed sessions should surfice, but I guess the rule is there to protect everyone. I for one have always felt comfortable with running close to you.

Greg
 
Dick,

My entry fee rant happened many, many years ago and I don't remember who it was I talked to. And it's humorous because I think the fee went up to something astronomical like $80! I didn't figure it would change any decision that had been made, but I was shocked at the attitude I got and wonder if any other people had gotten put off of racing because of it.

Usually I don't live in fantasy land so I realize costs only go up and the clubs need to remain financially viable to exist. I just wanted to express my concerns so the powers that be might take it into account in the future.

Gary
 
I would like to see all of us open wheelers pick one race and recruit as many ow entries as possible. Doernbecher Challenge would be my choice as it is a great event for a great cause. It would be nice if all of the open wheelers could pit together to show the variety of classes and cars plus it could build some camaraderie amongst the group. Who would be interested in doing this?

Tim Bland
Anson SA4
 
Greg,

I certainly hope to be sharing the track with you this year!

I would support combining 3/6 for practice, but not qualifying. And that seems mostly something we can do to placate those who are rightfully annoyed at groups with few cars getting the same track time.

I guess I don't have a lot of ideas other than to try and make it easier for the casual racers and those that haven't raced in awhile to get on the track. Lighten up on the safety requirements (some of which seem arbitrary). The belts and helmet thing have always bugged me. Maybe give complimentary transponder rental to novices or returning racers. Fast-track previous license holders - One novice race for observation should be enough. I'll give it some more thought.

I should point out that the last time I re-renewed in 2004, the license director did not require me to retake a driving school. I did have to go through the entire novice program however, which I thought was a bit ridiculous. And I'm in the same position now, since I haven't raced since 2007.
 
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