formula car chassis donation

robjacobsen

The Pros From Dover
Some of us had to deal with a CF that came to rest shiney side down at Pacific Raceway last weekend. The driver was trapped in a position that made it difficult to breath. Back when we were all 26, three of us would have been able to roll the car on its side with ease. Now that we are mostly in our 60's and 70's, it takes twice as many of us to do the same job. So after a few days of pondering better ways to help a driver in that situation, I got to thinking that we need to find an old chassis to practice on. Something we can roll over in various ways and with various tools to better prepare for ugly situations like we had at Pacific. Know anyone that has an old, worn out formula car chassis they would be willing to donate as such a training tool?
BTW, the driver at Pacific was ok, but he had to wait a long time before we could get him out. It felt even longer to those trying to hold the car up enough for him to breath while we waited for reinforcements.
 

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
Rob,

I'd like to hear more about this, which may help other open wheel drivers also. First question is, if the car passed the broomstick test, how did the driver end up with his head buried in the dirt? Were his seat belts pulled up tight? Where on the track was the dirt soft enough for his head to dig in?

You really need more then a chassis. The chassis it self is so light a medium sized child can pick it up. All the weight is in what's in the chassis.

What I'd be visualizing is something like a BIGGER stronger open wheel jack to lift one end of the car WAY off the ground. But you'd have to have several around the track. I'd suggest that if two or threee of you get in that situation again, try lifting just the front end way up maybe even over your heads. One normally strong adult can usually lift the front alone. I'm 73 (can't do it any more do to health declines) but up intil my heart surgery I could lift the front end of a Reynard FC off the ground.

I'd contact Black Jack Racing and D&D Fabrication to find out what trashed frames they might have that you could then weld weights in to to simulate a complete car.

P.S. a complete FF or FC or FA car weighs less then 1,500 Lbs at the most (FA)

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robjacobsen

The Pros From Dover
Rob,

I'd like to hear more about this, which may help other open wheel drivers also. First question is, if the car passed the broomstick test, how did the driver end up with his head buried in the dirt? Were his seat belts pulled up tight? Where on the track was the dirt soft enough for his head to dig in?

You really need more then a chassis. The chassis it self is so light a medium sized child can pick it up. All the weight is in what's in the chassis.

What I'd be visualizing is something like a BIGGER stronger open wheel jack to lift one end of the car WAY off the ground. But you'd have to have several around the track. I'd suggest that if two or threee of you get in that situation again, try lifting just the front end way up maybe even over your heads. One normally strong adult can usually lift the front alone. I'm 73 (can't do it any more do to health declines) but up intil my heart surgery I could lift the front end of a Reynard FC off the ground.

I'd contact Black Jack Racing and D&D Fabrication to find out what trashed frames they might have that you could then weld weights in to to simulate a complete car.

P.S. a complete FF or FC or FA car weighs less then 1,500 Lbs at the most (FA)

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The car in question came to rest in the gravel on drivers right exiting turn 5, so it dug in somewhat. That gravel also complicated the lifting motion we were trying to do in that the car would slide away from us when we lifted too high. As for the weight question, We can alway load something in to simulate the weight of the whole car. We can even simulate having axels sticking out from the tub. Like you Richard, I have lifted the front of some formula cars, but that was in my younger, stronger days. Rick Nedley and I drug a formula car chassis of the track at PIR that had no wheels point in the same direction, but that was back in the day. The trucks we have at Cascade have many cabinets for hauling things like a floor jack. IRDC's blue truck is a work in progress with plenty of room for progress. My thought a few days after the event is that I could have used one of the flat tow straps running through the roll hoop and then around my fat ass in a belay seat. brace my feet against the car and it would likely have made the job of tipping the car much easier. Only way to be sure is to try it, preferably not in th heat of battle.

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Rob,

I'd like to hear more about this, which may help other open wheel drivers also. First question is, if the car passed the broomstick test, how did the driver end up with his head buried in the dirt? Were his seat belts pulled up tight? Where on the track was the dirt soft enough for his head to dig in?

You really need more then a chassis. The chassis it self is so light a medium sized child can pick it up. All the weight is in what's in the chassis.

What I'd be visualizing is something like a BIGGER stronger open wheel jack to lift one end of the car WAY off the ground. But you'd have to have several around the track. I'd suggest that if two or threee of you get in that situation again, try lifting just the front end way up maybe even over your heads. One normally strong adult can usually lift the front alone. I'm 73 (can't do it any more do to health declines) but up intil my heart surgery I could lift the front end of a Reynard FC off the ground.

I'd contact Black Jack Racing and D&D Fabrication to find out what trashed frames they might have that you could then weld weights in to to simulate a complete car.

P.S. a complete FF or FC or FA car weighs less then 1,500 Lbs at the most (FA)

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The car in question came to rest in the gravel on drivers right exiting turn 5, so it dug in somewhat. That gravel also complicated the lifting motion we were trying to do in that the car would slide away from us when we lifted too high. As for the weight question, We can alway load something in to simulate the weight of the whole car. We can even simulate having axels sticking out from the tub. Like you Richard, I have lifted the front of some formula cars, but that was in my younger, stronger days. Rick Nedley and I drug a formula car chassis of the track at PIR that had no wheels point in the same direction, but that was back in the day. The trucks we have at Cascade have many cabinets for hauling things like a floor jack. IRDC's blue truck is a work in progress with plenty of room for progress. My thought a few days after the event is that I could have used one of the flat tow straps running through the roll hoop and then around my fat ass in a belay seat. brace my feet against the car and it would likely have made the job of tipping the car much easier. Only way to be sure is to try it, preferably not in th heat of battle.
 

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
Ahh, the gravel right of the exit to 5. Know it well. That can be a tough place. Glad you were able to save the driver, Rob.

I'm not sure what would be a good assist at turning a formula car back over. But, I think I'll raise the question on Apexspeed. There's a tremendous amount of knowledge and creativity there.

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Ahh, the gravel right of the exit to 5. Know it well. That can be a tough place. Glad you were able to save the driver, Rob.

I'm not sure what would be a good assist at turning a formula car back over. But, I think I'll raise the question on Apexspeed. There's a tremendous amount of knowledge and creativity there.
 

robjacobsen

The Pros From Dover
Based on my post, here's the first suggestion somebody came up with:

http://www.matjack.com/matjack-low-pressure-air-lifting-cushions.html

And if you want to see what people are coming up with directly:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?p=513709#post513709

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Interesting string of thoughts and opinions on Apexspeed. I've heard visiting organizations (Cart, IMSA, NASCAR, etc.) tell our Northwest workers that they are the best. in the country. I've always figured they were blowing warm air up our skirts. No one is the best since there is always room for improvement and new tricks to our trade. That being said, I have seen things at many tracks that had me shaking my head in disappointment. While having so many tracks and organizations running in the Northwest is sometimes a pain, it does help us keep our skills up and keeps us flexible. Remember the long pry bars we used to have on every corner back in the day? They are a thing of the past for the most part. Cascade has one on each of the trucks. IRDC and NWMS don't have them anymore. I like the idea of those airbag if they truly can be filled with a small portable compressed gas container. The problem is that many clubs can't afford to keep the rust off their trucks, let alone stock them with expensive tools. I would love to have more tools, but I only have to tools they provide our I bring from home.

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Based on my post, here's the first suggestion somebody came up with:

http://www.matjack.com/matjack-low-pressure-air-lifting-cushions.html

And if you want to see what people are coming up with directly:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?p=513709#post513709

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting string of thoughts and opinions on Apexspeed. I've heard visiting organizations (Cart, IMSA, NASCAR, etc.) tell our Northwest workers that they are the best. in the country. I've always figured they were blowing warm air up our skirts. No one is the best since there is always room for improvement and new tricks to our trade. That being said, I have seen things at many tracks that had me shaking my head in disappointment. While having so many tracks and organizations running in the Northwest is sometimes a pain, it does help us keep our skills up and keeps us flexible. Remember the long pry bars we used to have on every corner back in the day? They are a thing of the past for the most part. Cascade has one on each of the trucks. IRDC and NWMS don't have them anymore. I like the idea of those airbag if they truly can be filled with a small portable compressed gas container. The problem is that many clubs can't afford to keep the rust off their trucks, let alone stock them with expensive tools. I would love to have more tools, but I only have to tools they provide our I bring from home.
 

rick_bostrom

Onda Kattan Racing
NW workers are some of the best and most committed people I have ever encountered and that is coming from someone who has participated in a lot of activities at a reasonable high level.

I was dismayed at some of the responses I saw on the Apexspeed board because I have never heard ANYONE driving in Conference say anything remotely like "Say what you will about me and how I feel about their competence but i knew that day that drivers are on our own out there ..." Maybe we are just spoiled but the professionalism with which our Conference volunteers handle their duties never ceases to amaze me. I've now spent the better part of the last two years with an earpiece in my ear each race week-end and I can say without any hesitation you would think you were working with a special forces team the way they go about their tasks. Those same workers who may be aging and less physically able than in past years often also carry years of repetition, experience, and knowledge that is an invaluable benefit to me when I am lucky enough to strap into a race car.

It has become obvious to me that the workers are there because they want to be. They love the sport and the people in it and can choose to do anything with their time and choose to spend it at a racetrack. I have always felt safe when surrounded by Conference volunteers and will feel more so next year when I go back to racing having been given a peek into how they run a week-end.

Nothing but respect from this driver. I feel sorry for the guy quoted above who has to race somewhere he feels he doesn't get the love from the volunteers we feel. Thank you workers.

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NW workers are some of the best and most committed people I have ever encountered and that is coming from someone who has participated in a lot of activities at a reasonable high level.

I was dismayed at some of the responses I saw on the Apexspeed board because I have never heard ANYONE driving in Conference say anything remotely like "Say what you will about me and how I feel about their competence but i knew that day that drivers are on our own out there ..." Maybe we are just spoiled but the professionalism with which our Conference volunteers handle their duties never ceases to amaze me. I've now spent the better part of the last two years with an earpiece in my ear each race week-end and I can say without any hesitation you would think you were working with a special forces team the way they go about their tasks. Those same workers who may be aging and less physically able than in past years often also carry years of repetition, experience, and knowledge that is an invaluable benefit to me when I am lucky enough to strap into a race car.

It has become obvious to me that the workers are there because they want to be. They love the sport and the people in it and can choose to do anything with their time and choose to spend it at a racetrack. I have always felt safe when surrounded by Conference volunteers and will feel more so next year when I go back to racing having been given a peek into how they run a week-end.

Nothing but respect from this driver. I feel sorry for the guy quoted above who has to race somewhere he feels he doesn't get the love from the volunteers we feel. Thank you workers.
 

dougmoul

Member
I actually saw this incident from the big grandstands and couldn't tell from there that the driver was having trouble. The safety crews here are the best in my book and I thank them. So, as to the matter of the thread; I could certainly run it by my old crew on Truck 64 (which is a freeway rescue rig) and see if they have any ideas. It usually comes down to levers and fulcrums though and as all of us age (and break) easier it behooves us to be able to work smarter not harder so if this chassis appears, I would definitely be interested in attending the drill and seeing if I have anything to offer.
 

robjacobsen

The Pros From Dover
We are always happy to have input from knowledgeable people at our training session. We usually have it in the spring at PIR since that is the home track for many of us. The rest are friends from north of the border. The more the merrier.
 

westipton

Well-known member
I used to volunteer my FV back in the 70's to the club for worker training, but it didn't include turning it over and trying to right it! I would imagine someone out there, like maybe D&D has a tub that could be fitted with wheels and used for this exercise. If I had one lying around I would donate, but there are still enough Ow shops an drivers out there to contact.
 
Ideally we would have had the boom on the wrecker positioned to strap two exposed corners (ITIS). Lift the car enough to extract the driver and then put it on its wheels when we have people cleared.

In this case, the wrecker had very little boom extention and a big metal lift in the way, so even if it had been positioned correctly (which was not a possibility at that location) we couldn't use it to stabilize the car. When the second truck got there it was all human power taking weight off of the driver.

It's infrequent that we have an ideal set up, but when you have the proper tools it sure can save a lot of physical energy. With three bodies stabilizing the car, Taz was able to get the driver extracted. Once the car was upright, we could recover it.

We'll have to be discussing those tools for next season.

The finale at the Ridge will be a different game. But we'll see what we get when we get there.

I'm putting out a call for all Safety Marshals that aren't already committed to the Run-offs or the Lucky Dog race at ORP. The ranks will be thin at the Ridge.
 
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