Feedback on Seattle Rain Rules

Bonnie,

Ray put up a couple of those little lights at corners last year to try them out. Assuming the workers remembered to turn them on when appropriate they weren't enough to catch the drivers eye more then the flag.

I'm NOT saying it's a bad idea to have a yellow light at the T-9 apex (actually a GOOD idea), but it needs to be larger then that.
 
At the races I've worked recently with Indy Car, they use flashing yellow lights at key places on the track to supplement the yellow flags. On a full course yellow, Race Control activated them, but for local yellows, we had a remote and we activated them, then [hopefully!] turned them off when the incident cleared. (We worked with each other to help make sure the lights did get turned off when they should - the next station would say "Turn 4, your light's still flashing!") It wasn't perfect, and initially I was sceptical, but I must admit, it really does help the drivers see the yellow area, particularly in bad weather. But of course, Indy Car has big fancy lights and remotes that IRDC obviously couldn't afford! Earlier today when I posted the link I had just done a cursory Internet search. You're right, 4.5 inches is probably too small, but perhaps there are bigger ones for not too much more? I'll do a little more browsing ...

I know Westwood had "deer lights" which were activated when wildlife was spotted trackside. I remember being assigned to "Deer's Leap" for that task in my first year of flagging (which was Westwood's LAST year), but I can't remember how the lights were turned on or what they looked like. I just seem to remember sitting on a platform trackside keeping a lookout! (Very boring but necessary job.) In those days, it wouldn't have been by a remote control device - maybe wired with a toggle switch? Nick or Roger will remember, I'll ask them. And I wonder what the rule was when the lights were activated ... no passing, or just warning you of the danger and you're on your own? Of course, I imagine at PR nothing could be attached permanently to the drag course wall.

I do like the idea of somehow implementing an "extra" warning though, at least until the problem is fixed.
 
Huh! I just looked at the safety light site again, and it's actually located in Marysville, WA! Here's what it says on their home page, coincidentally about the one I linked to in my earlier post ...

"LED Beacon with Remote Control battery operated, magnet mount - Our hottest selling beacon is now even hotter with the edition [sic, says the proofreader in me ... that should be "addition"] of a wireless remote control. Turn the unit on or off from as far away as 100 ft. Ideal for use on vehicles, buildings and machinery with the super-strong magnet base. Utilizing 6 AA batteries, this unit will run for weeks on a set of batteries. A favorite of the U.S. Military. Reg. $65.49 Sale $59.95"


Maybe two of them side by side?
 
I do like the idea of somehow implementing an "extra" warning though, at least until the problem is fixed.
In the end, this is what I'd like to derive. I don't think we'll be able to order any flashing lights in time for the race. If drivers are telling me they can't always see a 3x3 foot flag, I'm not sure if they can be trusted to see a 5-inch flashing light.

Is it reasonable to try to invent a new flagging scenario? A steady yellow and a steady conditions flag, for example? These can be dropped in a flag holder so that other flags can be thrown. A big sheet of plywood painted "NO PASSING"?

While these ideas seem feasible, is it better to just leave it be and straight-up close the front straight?
 
How about adding a toll booth in T9? An arm with flashing lights drops down and each driver has to sign an IOU to pass.
 
Stop Light with flashing yellow on top

PRI does have one of these that the Alfa Club donated. The red and green are remote (cable) activated and the flashing yellow is activated by a switch on the unit. It is newer LED full blown traffic light. It could be staged in T9 where lap transmitters usually go and turned on if needed by one of the stewards. It does need 120V from either a portable generator or a long cord.
 
Mike, I was thinking of the flashing light as the "extra" flag, only used to tell the drivers there's serious flooding ahead. And it wouldn't be with the flaggers, I was thinking it could be somewhere between Turns 9 and 10 on the wall adjacent to the drivers' line? That's where the remote came in. I haven't worked those turns in a deluge so I don't know exactly where the problem starts. I was just building on the discussion between Lynne and Rob.

Anyway, back to your regular programming, and thanks for giving me your feedback.
 
Bonnie,

The problem area is starts about 50 to 75 feet before the first part of the kink to the left. The lake forms on the inner edge NEAR the apex of the left kink which is the almost ideal racing line. And, a lot of passing/side-by-side racing occurs there. With the lake, there's only ONE reasonably 'safe' path through there. If the rain is heavy enough to cause the flooding, the entire front straight is pretty well water logged. However, it's not Sooo wet that 85% of the distance from Turn 9 to the kink couldn't be used for passing. Especially when you have cars in the run group that may be tip toeing around in the wet.

It does take a heavy steady rain for these conditions to develop which is why we don't see it that often. But the late September race is a good one for it.

Your idea of a flashing yellow light 3/4 of the way to the kink from T-9 is a good one.
 
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You are definitely on the correct path, ekiM.

If you want to control passing from T9 until T1, then a standing yellow with a surface flag at T9, T10, and S/F only by your command through Base Comm should do that. That leaves any of those stations the capability of upgrading if/when necessary. The standing yellow flag rule specifies "or until the next station not displaying a yellow flag." And for this argument we'll assume that the drivers can actually see the next station.

The drivers would/should/could be made aware of the "Stewards' Special" flag configuration and the intent.

If you decide that the right hander through T9 is also too messy and dangerous, then T8 could display the same configuration of flags...

"By your command..."
 
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Two observations:

1.
From the sound of what actual DRIVERS have said and workers, the steward should do what's necessary to keep the racers safe as possible if these conditions develop.

2.
We've discussed this in such depth that it's really doubtful it will rain that weekend. So it's a moot point :)
 
Cmon, your overwhelming poor Mike, keep it simple, standing yellow means just the lake, waving means cars stopped on the track so slow down, yellow and white should be obvious, cars stopped and safety veh ahead. Black, pack it up and go home until the track is fixed. I already see black.
 
Rained a LOT of last night and up until about 10AM this morning. Track was FINE for SOVREN guys.. NO sign of even the start of a lake at the kink... NP.

Wasn't a gully washer storm but steady.

P.S.
Miles Jackson even had his ONE of only 3 ever built Shadow DN-11 Formula One cars out in the wet!! :D :D :D Ohh how sweet and mellow that Cosworth DFV V8 sounds.
 
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Will skirts be handed out prior having standing yellows for half a track?

Or maybe refunds?

If the track conditions are not safe then cancel the event! Racing on half a track is ridiculous.

Nut up and race!
 
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I don't think the guys who have crashed there would agree with you Rick. It's not about testosterone, it's about being safe, and sensible, and losing cars or drivers for the sake of bragging rights or a cheap little trophy would be pointless.
If we have a monsoon again the yellow will, and should be, displayed for the kink, which still leaves 90% of the track open to splash around on.
 
Will skirts be handed out prior having standing yellows for half a track?

Or maybe refunds?

If the track conditions are not safe then cancel the event! Racing on half a track is ridiculous.

Nut up and race!

you have to remember Rick there are cars out there with 20 to 80k in them, you would change that tune if you were risking that much. Most sanctioning bodys wouldnt race thru a lake and a two rivers at all so just be thankfull you dont get sent home when it rains there.
 
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