Chump Car racing live

racing_510s said:
Kyle, the roadster you are talking about is mine, Todd Stanley's and co owned by Joe Klokkevold. I feel like I keep having to defend my car and I'm not sure why. The Roadster looks really nice at 50' but look closer. First we ran it with a L1600 in Spokane. We had many problems one of which we broke the cam into three sections. First to find a replacement L1600 [junk yard motor that runs] well probably is not going to happen. Just a cam alone can get expensive. Now as far as the motor lets get the facts straight. It's not a KA24DE as they are hard as hell to find. The motor is a SR20DE. Yes it's was bought at a wrecking yard for $150. I invite anybody to look at the receipt and they are more than welcome to call the business I got it from. BTW it is a core motor. The tranny is out of a junk yard 280ZX and I had a friend of mine put new brass in it. Just remember what else was out there: 84 Corvette, 1st gen RX7 with a 302, old SP Miata's and the car that won Saturday was a Sentra with the same motor that's in my car, just to name a few. $500 cars??
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My point exactly is that the intent of the cars, when this first started, was to have just POS's. To have modified, cars, RX7's with 302, 260Z with SBC, Datsun 1600's with SR20's (or KA24D or DE's ((Which I do not have a problem finding all over, as most switch from the iron block KA24DE to the aluminum SR20,,, but thats another story)). With all the "$500.00 Miatas getting out there, and a Miata is a pretty durn fast car, it is interesting that the car that seems to be placing in 1st or really up there is a Nissan Sentra... Oh well. Preparation is always the key.

Last, I am sorry if you felt attacked. Wasn't my point or intent. I have voiced my opinion to ChumpCar several times about how their rules and what they intended seem to be morphing into something different. I don't really have a concern with that, just hate to see it get out of hand so that someone comes in with a monster car and rules the roost - so to speak. The Vette was a great example, and ChumpCar did step in. Even if the car did not finish the race, the potential was there right.

BTW: If you want to get rid of the 1600 engine let me know, I can always use spare parts for my collection of Datsun's!! I have my sights on another engine/transmission at a JY and hope to get it this weekend. Can't have enough of them things.
 
Notes from the chatter in the paddock:

Since I was not driving, only hanging out this year, as I also was under the impression that extra workers/flaggers were not wanted, these observations are based on what I heard from others. (Last year my whole family was helping out somewhere.)

The lights at the turn stations were difficult to see--flags can be seen from a large angle of view; lights can only be seen in the daylight from a limited angle and they do not have the definition that flags have during daylight. Lights at night is a no-brainer; lights in the daytime, not so good.

Having only one turn worker? Scares me. I've worked turns and know how hard it is to keep track of what's going on in 180 deg (or more, like turn 6 station). My opinion--You need two people to do a good job.
As a Conference driver, it scares me that that one flagger may be bending down for a water bottle, etc. when an incident happens... If I can't see the mess from my car, he/she is my only warning and if he/she isn't on top of things 100% of the time then it's not helping--that's where having a second person can cover for the first.

John's argument is flawed--that having one flagger who doesn't leave the station is better, because that way the station isn't left with only 50% of it's workers. Um, I'd rather have the two or more people on station; have one person (50%) left in the station to hold flags and have another running toward my car with a fire bottle if necessary! I'm better off that way than not having that second person.
Our Conference races are run by volunteers, so in our system it doesn't cost us any more (beyond an extra lunch, and maybe a t-shirt) to add twice the safety to a corner.

Last point, there was a lot of poor communication between Chump and Cascade during negotiations. John, you need to take the reins and make sure you know what's being said. There was alot of bad feelings/perceptions trickling down amongst workers. Some more communication with some of the key people might be useful? Since it sounds like alot of Cascade volunteers were helping at the ChumpCar race weekend, it would be nice to keep everyone happily on the same page.

Last year's inaugural event was amazingly fun. It really seemed like a (mostly) clean, wholesome event that was appropriate for kids and everyone was having a good time. This year's event seemed to come off well with people enjoying themselves. The safety aspect though scares me--I had alot of friends driving in the races, and I may also at some point.

BTW--good call this year, losing the chicanes on the back straight. They don't make for racing, just rush-hour-type slinky effect.
 
Thanx for the comments, Karen. A couple of notes:

1) When two flaggers are in a station, the standard rule has always been that one flagger looks up-course (Blue Flag) and one worker watches down-course (Yellow and Debris Flag). The down-course worker watches the "Area of Responsibility" (AOR) for the station. So, basically, there's only one (1) flagger watching the AOR, which is the critical zone. In an incident, the second flagger (Blue Flag) is the "runner" -- he/she grabs the bottle and responds to the incident. Using this 1970's standard (when volunteers were plentiful), there is supposed to be a third person at the station, the Observer, who is on the radio or wired headset. However, this model has long been outdated because there just aren't enough volunteers. Ever since tracks started charging for corner workers and paying them, damn near every corner worker now demands to be paid for their services. That Conference workers don't is great... a real testimony to the devotion you guys have for the sport and your club. But, you're not the norm.

[Side-note: We've tried using volunteers at a lot of tracks; initially for everything we needed, including corners. However, volunteers don't usually have the same motivation as someone who's being paid for their services. Typically, if we sign-up 15 volunteers before a race, we get 6 at the track. So, went with paying SCCA, NASA or other club workers to work our corners, and it's been great. If we do get volunteers, we use them for pit-in/out, paddock marshals, floaters (for corner relief), black flag/penalty box, etc. There's always a spot for someone to help!]

Also, please consider that, in ChumpCar, we don't use the Blue Flag and we don't have corner workers responding to incidents. With flags or lights, one person at a station can do it all safely, effectively and efficiently. This has been proven over and over again -- not only by us, but by the hundreds of events held at tracks that employ this same protocol. My rationale isn't flawed if you look at it that way... which happens to be the way that 80-90% of all tracks are either operating or going. The only 2-3 person corner stations that we have come across in 2010 were at Virginia Int'l Raceway... where they have a full-time flag and communications team that works 7-days a week, 363 days a year. And, yes, they get paid.

2) On the communications, I agree. I think it all fell apart when I relied on the e-mails that I received from certain members/Directors of the org that stated "no problem" on working and supporting the event. Contracts went back-and-forth and everything looked (and sounded) great. Then, when we got the "No Bid" notice 5 weeks before the race, we had to scramble. For our next events in the PNW, we'll probably put the word out early that we're hiring (paying) corner workers for our events, and we'll accept sign-ups until we receive what we need to meet our requirements. Of course, we'll always accept volunteers...

Again, I appreciate your comments and thoughts. All of this helps us refine and improve our fledgling series... and I hope my thoughts and comments help CSCC/Conference to refine and update your orgs, as well.

All the best -
John
 
"There was alot of bad feelings/perceptions trickling down amongst workers." I'm certain that is a somewhat wide, and considerably inaccurate statement if one were to step outside the confines of a CSCC Board, or General membership meeting. It had very little to do with the "workers".

And besides, CSCC doesn't own any race workers, unless they bought some that I haven't heard of (not likely). With a rate of 'pay' being the opportunity to dedicate themselves to their individual passions for this great sport of ours.

Lunches, dinner and t-shirts gratefully accepted while supplies last. And we always thank those dedicated drivers that volunteer a bit of their hard saved $ to the worker funds of those ICSCC clubs to promote, recruit, and maintain some higher levels of participation for the benefit of all those that would risk their safety in their own individual passions of this great sport of ours.

Remember, ICSCC doesn't own any member clubs. More the other way around.

Absolutely accurate, however, is the necessity for better communications between those racing entities that might share resources to provide for the kind of quality service and efficient operations that we have grown accustom to at our home track.

Of course, I would have been more comfortable in my normal 'seat' (Safety), surrounded by the usual equipment. But regardless, I still had the best people to serve with. And no one club can put a price on that.

Some names--
Cy Kratzer on T1. Works SCCA, ICSCC, and more.
Roosster Thornton on T4. Works SCCA, ICSCC, OMRRA, PSSR, and more.
Dom, Russ, Donna... a variety rotating to T6. Again, SCCA, ICSCC, Dom goes international, Russ has done that ARCA thing up north the last couple years, HMSA historics, and more.
Ali Montgomery on T8. Nobody's ever heard of her...except just everywhere she's been has left a mark.
Linda Blackburn on T9. There's someone that has worked nearly every active specialty known to race operations, and T&S for many this year too.
T11 was another rotational corner, so there had to be Kim McFarland, Erin "Missy" Ebelmesser, and others on the Workers Revenge Team.
Gary Frasier, Jim Brassfield, Sherman on sound at T12. A place that you don't want to be alone for long.
You ask those people how they assessed the safety from their vantage points.

Would more eyes help? Hell, ya. More hands? Of course.

Did this crew of Race Track Rangers assess what they had to work with it, develop plans, maintain focus, and overcome any obstacle, to provide the best care anywhere?

They did precisely,
As we would for anyone.

stic_no-fear-eyes_s2.gif

That is what we do.​
 
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Ken is absolutely right. Our corners were professionally covered, as well as the tower (Control) and every truck in Emergency Central. No one dropped a call, never a hesitation, never missed a beat. Okay, we did break 3 tow ropes! Geez, those chumps just don't know how to get a flat tow! Bottom-line: would I do it the same way over again? Hell, yes! Would I like for us to improve the way we do things? Hell, yes! Am I hoping that we can patch-up whatever communication issue exists? Hell, yes! Am I going to open a nice bottle of wine right now (Friday, 5:10pm)? Hell, yes!

All the best -
John
 
"Side-note: We've tried using volunteers at a lot of tracks; initially for everything we needed, including corners. However, volunteers don't usually have the same motivation as someone who's being paid for their services."

I have to call foul on this one and quite frankly I am insulted.

You obviously do not know the volunteers from Conference at all and shouldn't tar all of us with the same brush.
For that matter CACC in Canada and the SCCA races I work, do not pay their workers.

We have had the same strong core of volunteers for over 30 years. EVERY ONE OF THEM UNPAID!!! And they travel hundreds of miles every season supporting the sport they love.

So let's talk motivation. I would have a motivated - unpaid - volunteer watching my back any day, as they were there because they wanted to be, not because they were being paid.

How much do you pay someone to stand in freezing rain, hail, 105 degree heat for 10 hrs and give up every weekend for 7 months???

Karen fully understands, as do the majority of those reading this thread, just how exactly a turn station, etc works. There was no explanation needed for that.
I do not believe that 1 person per turn is safe.....end of story.

We have 54 years of experience with putting on races with over 200 entires almost every race weekend so this isn't our first rodeo.

And as for Conference not being the "norm"......we have 5 member clubs and 5 race tracks that contradict that!!!!
 
Paid, not paid, give a rat's flying patoo. More eyes, more experienced hands, the potential for more new people to train equates to a safer racing environment... pretty much a no brainer, that. What say we just try to glean all the recruits we can from it, and see how many have the "it" necessary to put up with us?

So Bonnie started all of this... and then she said Rick Neydliiiiii.

Who's got Rick's picture to post. There was a safety, training, training, safety guy.

It's been so long that I've forgotten how I acquired this propensity for reading all these fabjoubered rules and regulations, whilst drinking coffee, and smoking cigarettes like a chimney every time I'm at a race track. Kinda weird huh?

I'm not kidding. Who's got 'em?
 
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I'm assuming John was referring to random volunteers that want to help out and NOT to a dedicated group of people who, as Lynn pointed out, travel extensively and without financial reward to tracks all over the Pacific Northwest. In John's scenario, yeah, I can imagine that "volunteers" would not be a whole lot of use. The group that regularly work Conference races, though, are an entirely different story.
 
Lynn you're spot on. Volunteer's motivation is much higher, much stronger, much more long lasting. Volunteers have a passion for their chosen speciality.

Dave M did do the right thing by employing those same passionate volunteers to fill the paid positions. Much better move than what has happened at some other places.
 
robjacobsen said:
I just got the word from Adam on the turn 11 incident. He was driving the little yellow PIR safety truck down the back straight and as he entered the turn, he was braking on the dry line, but had to stay right which took him onto the damp part of the track. He spun the truck. The only damage was to his pride, thank goodness. Surprise!
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roadsterx said:
Bryan said he has in car footage of Adams spin...
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Here's the video :) . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSjZNtJ9bkA
 
Fantastic footage, Bryan. Thank you very much. Looks as though the right rear just caught the very last little piece of the painted curbing there and "whoops". We'll be going over this bit many, many times... many.

We certainly appreciate the caution shown by you and those other drivers following. It was hard to signal traffic by, hold them back, watch the tow, key the radio, shift gears (for me), and concentrate on each of our four feet on the track sometimes.

And I'll take this opportunity to voice my regrets if any drivers were 'unduly' penalized for passing the safety vehicles without an obvious and constant wave-by. The turns would call it in as they saw it, and penalties were assessed. But most of the time there was legitimate and well controlled passing around me. And know that we truly appreciate that respect shown during our on-track operations, day and night.
 
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Not to drag out the dirt, but none of what I was hearing from people came from either the CSCC board meeting or general meeting. Just food for thought.

Be careful how things look to people. Somehow the perceptions regarding how Cascade and the volunteers were being treated became a problem.
Not a problem that can be resolved in this forum, but something that the key players should be aware of.
 
Lynn, Karen, Holly, Bonnie and the rest of the fantastic ICSCC workers. You must forgive John for ignorance of what we here in this part of the racing world have come to know and appreciate. You guys are the exception, not the rule when it comes to workers.

From a drivers perspective I only observed appropriate and quick response from all officials at the Chump race at PIR. The number of events that required action by flagers and response vehicles were much higher than any ICSCC event I have ever raced or worked at, and all seemed to be handled very well.

The amount of information that workers can convey by use of various flags at ICSCC events was not there, however, the light system that was used worked very well and was easy to understand by all drivers. I have legitimately missed a few yellow flags at ICSCC events but the lights at the Chump race were impossible not to notice even if you have your head down and are really involved in a pass or some other situation that has made me miss a yellow at ICSCC. I like how ICSCC uses white flags for safety vehicles on course but, IMHO, the yellow system used at Chump is probably much safer for the safety workers than the use of white at ICSCC.

As for number of workers and stations not responding to incidents, I don't think it can be argued that in a fire or similar situation that drivers are much better off at an ICSCC event than Chump.

I think an open mind would agree that both ICSCC and Chump can co-exist and even learn from each other.
 
Making statements that are not complimentary about CSCC's VOLUNTEER BOD, who give so many HOURS of hard work and a friggin huge amount of thought before they make a decision on anything, with ample discussion, some of it quite interesting, will not win anyone kudos' or a kind reply.

If you want to win, play the game with honor and dignity.
 
AH, C'MON NOW!!

Blutoz small.jpg​

I still don't see any pictures of Rick posted anywhere. Remember? He's the guy that won ICSCC Worker of the Year in 1984. There's got to be some record of him someplace. Anything in the META archives?
 
>>Adam and I have just been waiting for JC to jump on this. JC has been after Adam for a time now. Adam figures he will be rubbing his hands in glee, just itching to get his hands on the footage.<<

Rob:

I just found out about it!!

I've a lot of little birdies tell me about Adam and his "safety car extravaganza". Everyone is waiting for me to see the video.

Where is the video? I want to see it!! Can someone re-post it? Please!!!!!!!!

I vote to have this video as part of the banquet festivities; ............................. what does everyone think?

................. I can't wait to see it!!

J.C.
 
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