Spec E46 - any interest for 2015?

epsdan

epsdan

Well-known member
So James Colborn and I have been talking ... SpecE46. James is looking for an east coast car to race, and I'm toying with the idea of "sharing" one with him, so we won't be renting when we go test at tracks. The idea of SE46 as the evolution of PRO3 is also intriguing.

James Clay (BimmerWorld) and Jason Tower have put together a rules package, and are doing two test builds for SpecE46 (spece46.com). I'm tossing it out here (1) 'cause it's a cool idea, and (2) it may end up being the natural evolution of PRO3, as mentioned above.

For some background and more info, look at the above site, and also at the Bimmerforums thread http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2059182-Announcing-Spec-E46

Short version of the story - it's really early in the development, but Clay and Tower are controlling the ruleset. In a nutshell, a e46 330 (coupe or sedan), MCS Single adjustable (great shocks, BTW), spec spring, sways allowed, stock engine, spec exhaust, spec/sealed ECU/tune, lotsa tire (R-compound, likely either RR's or R7's), stock ABS (which is pretty decent). stock tank, and a end-of-race weight with a "large" driver of around 2850#. They are building one coupe (Clay) and one sedan (Tower), to get a feel for the weight.

The car will be decently fast - not as fast as an ST car, but about the same speed as our Conti e92's for a lot less money. How much less?

The donor is in the $3K-$6K range (east coast, at least). The build list for parts (including safety, minus the cage) is $18K, retail. Multiple sources for everything except the exhaust - that's a BimmerWorld part. If you do the build, you're in it for $23-$26K, assuming $2K for the cage. BimmerWorld has quoted a build for me at $35K, turnkey. If this is more than a current PRO3 build, it's not much more ...

There are a number of potential contingency sponsors already chomping to get signed up (Clay is good at getting these things set up). They are trying to get both BMWCCA and NASA to sanction. It is my belief (and James') that when they get the numbers, the sanctions will happen.

Think of the potential here - if NASA, BMWCCA, and Conference all adopted the same rule set, you could take one car and race for Championships in any of the three sanctioning bodies. I'm a Conference guy at heart, so I'mnot overly interested in running the car in NASA-PNW (that's just me, though), but how cool would it be to have a bunch of NORCAL SE46 guys come up in a couple of years to experience a ICSCC race at The Ridge, ORP, or any of our other really cool tracks?

Like I said, it's early in the development, but it's an interesting idea to look at. Colborn and I are both fully committed to running PRO3 this year, but don't be surprised if you see a SE46 show up at a Northwest track near you. You might even want to take it for a spin!

Enough of my end-of year babbling. Happy New Year, all!

PS - I'm going to cross-post this to the PRO3 Facebook Page and the PRO3 Yahoo! Group, so ignore multiple copies, as necessary.
 
epsdan said:
.......but how cool would it be to have a bunch of NORCAL SE46 guys come up in a couple of years to experience a ICSCC race at The Ridge, ORP, or any of our other really cool tracks?.....
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Interesting idea. But, I wouldn't count on that. First two years of the renewed SCCA double nationals at Pacific there was a GREAT turn out from California. Then in the third year, they all got tired of the long tow even though they could do the double then go to Portland for their national.

When I lived in Cal. we were all MASSIVELY in to long drives all around the state and out. But these days it seems they've all become a bunch of stay-at-home whimpers.
 
Hey Dan- I am curious as to the reasons why the E36 is "leapt over" in favor of the E46. It seems like there are a lot of those cars around and they would seem to be cheaper to build than an E46. I know from having owned an E36 M3 that they handle decently even in pretty stock form, but of course the M3 is a bit different and more expensive than a 328. Is the E36 just too old to justify making a new class, in favor of the newer (and apparently still reasonably cheap) E46?
 
RedMamba911 said:
Hey Dan- I am curious as to the reasons why the E36 is "leapt over" in favor of the E46. It seems like there are a lot of those cars around and they would seem to be cheaper to build than an E46. I know from having owned an E36 M3 that they handle decently even in pretty stock form, but of course the M3 is a bit different and more expensive than a 328. Is the E36 just too old to justify making a new class, in favor of the newer (and apparently still reasonably cheap) E46?
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IMO:

The e36 is not that big of an evolutionary jump from the e30 - if you are going to move to a new spec series you want something that has some longevity and also provides a good development platform to go faster and develop new bits. In short I think it makes most sense to go as new as possible without making it cost prohibitive. SpecE46 fits that bill. E90/92 would be too new and e36 a bit too old.

There is a spec e36 class already but it really hasn't caught on.
 
RedMamba911 said:
Hey Dan- I am curious as to the reasons why the E36 is "leapt over" in favor of the E46. It seems like there are a lot of those cars around and they would seem to be cheaper to build than an E46. I know from having owned an E36 M3 that they handle decently even in pretty stock form, but of course the M3 is a bit different and more expensive than a 328. Is the E36 just too old to justify making a new class, in favor of the newer (and apparently still reasonably cheap) E46?
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Scott,

Anthony pretty much nailed it above. I love a track e36M3, but the e46 is a pretty big evolutionary step from the e30, where the e36 is more of a "better e30". Obviously, an opinion, but one that's held by others.

We'll see if we get it, but we found a pretty clean (it seems) donor for $2500. Should know more tomorrow!

dan
 
I have been thinking of upgrading to krautwagen and I really like the E46 chassis. This seems like a good place to jump into the pool.

R
 
I dunno, I can see this flying in places like Virginia where there's also a strong BMWCCA racing scene, but I don't see it around here where there is both a large E30-centric group of people and the BMW-heavy ST. Then, for slightly more money but roughly similar stock HP (200 vs 225) and RWD, you can look at something like "Spec FR-S" or whatever. Operating costs with a Toyota have GOT to be cheaper, too.

(The favorite street car I ever owned was my E46 330, so I ain't hatin'.)
 
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Steve Adams said:
The favorite street car I ever owned was my E46 330, so I ain't hatin'.
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Different opinion "ain't hatin'", just seeing things differently, and that's all good. I appreciate another another perspective to challenge my thinking.

I'm really hoping that this appeals to "another group" in Conference - those not currently active in PRO3, and those not willing to commit to the significantly larger dollars it takes to run at the front of ST.

There are a number of "PRO3 alumni" that aren't racing anymore - and we're hoping SE46 being fresher and newer, faster, with a "tighter" rules set, will appeal to them. On the other end of the spectrum, there are people that have expressed interest in running an e46 in ST, but it takes some serious $$ to run with Mike and the crowd at the front.

It won't hurt to have a national, common rules set, so after the ICSCC season is over, you can take the car and run for a national championship, ala Mr. McAleenan. Or maybe (I'm still hopeful) that we can suck a few of the NorCal SE46 guys up to run one of our great Pacific Northwest tracks!

I may be wrong, but I'm hopeful this class, when introduced in 2015, will fill a niche that will allow more racers and potential racers to be a part of every Conference weekend!

BTW - Colborn and I got a donor ($2300), and plan on running it at the Spring Enduro in April. Come out and see!

Dan
 
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Don't get me wrong, I hope it takes off, too. Honestly, if there was a likely group of "SE46" drivers of 12-15 people, it'd be something I'd seriously consider. I suppose there's a market for guys who want something faster/newer than PRO3 but for whom ST has grown into something too pricey, at least insofar as the front of the pack is concerned, but I suspect this new class is a much easier sell in areas with a stronger SCCA and BMWCCA presence.

That said, count me in as someone who will be keeping an eye on this potential class.
 
Has any thought been given, by people "local" to Conference, of course, about what secondary class(es) SE46 could run in? SPM, obviously, but not in any kind of competitive way, but what about one of the Conference Production classes or RS or ...? Having an additional class where SE46 isn't a total back-marker (ask me about my Civic in ST...) would go a long way, I'd think, to making it more attractive to Conference racers.
 
Steve Adams said:
Has any thought been given, by people "local" to Conference, of course, about what secondary class(es) SE46 could run in? SPM, obviously, but not in any kind of competitive way, but what about one of the Conference Production classes or RS or ...? Having an additional class where SE46 isn't a total back-marker (ask me about my Civic in ST...) would go a long way, I'd think, to making it more attractive to Conference racers.
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Steve,

Unfortunately, there isn't a really good fit,and it has been discussed.

ST or ITE in Group 4, but it would get killed by most of the ST cars (it should be between 12:5 and 13:1), would do ok in ITE, until a real ITE car showed up. In RS, it would have to run very heavy, due to the Vanos. It could run in SPM, but again, that would be a worse slaughter than ST, since all of us ST guys run SPM, and some with more open maps or less weight, making the problem even worse.

From my perspective, the second class is just a place to go tune the suspension. It's like EIP for PRO3 - the car's aren't really competitive there, if a "real" EIP car is running, but you always have someone to race with.

Again, just my $0.02.

dan
 
Two more 330's bought today and in-transient to the Puget Sound area from Southern Cal, for two more SE46 builds to be completed "early this season". I'll let the owners say more, when and where they choose to...

Dan
#102 PRO3 "Tic Tac" (and SE46 cheerleader!)
 
Absolutely, besides the obvious running a better car I believe it is important for a Club to have newer car spec series for the appeal to entice new members.
 
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