When I look at it like this I can't help think I'm doing it Wrong!

colin_koehler

colin_koehler

Great SCOTT!
I've my watched video over and over and can't think of doing this any other way but when I look at it from this view it looks like I'm braking too early, turning in too early and spending way too much time with my wheel turned.

Stupid Google Earth!

Anyone else look at this and rethink how they approach it?


(It's T8 at PR btw)
T8PR.png
 
colin_koehler said:
I've my watched video over and over and can't think of doing this any other way but when I look at it from this view it looks like I'm braking too early....
Click to expand...

Probably NOT.

colin_koehler said:
turning in too early
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PROBABLY YES. Have to 'ease in to it'

colin_koehler said:
and spending way too much time with my wheel turned....
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Probably YES but not at the entry

Watched thousands of cars go through Turn 8 and ran it swiftly a few time myself. Most people are braking correctly (using the markers as a reference). However, 87% of people are indeed turning in way to early (it's a very late Apex corner). Having done that, they then must hold a tighter radius on the corner and exit WAY TOO tight to the inside of the track. The "fast exit" weather you're in a Formula Vee or a 500+ horsepower juggernaut is to let the car 'run out' to where you're almost in the dirt on the far side of the paddock entry road then make a pronounced little turn to bring the car back cross track for the entry to T-9. "Several" cars of 'medium horse power' that own lap records at Pacific actually use the paddock road as a part of their track (not a good idea but it works).
 
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The turn in is late, as is the apex, as Richard said. I like to set up wider, in the "second lane" from the right, and braking is just before the end of the painted lines. Very late apex, and we (the pro3 cars), when we hit our spots, tend to exit right at the "point" of the dark pavement from the exit road intersects the track. We use a good portion of the exit road coming into that point. If you look at the really fast pro3 guys (Andrew Newell comes to mind), he leaves a little cloud of dust right at that "point", every lap.

FWIW

Dan
 
The biggest problem I have with the super-wide, Pro3/Spec Miata corner exit is all those washboard-y bumps out there. Maybe my car is too stiffly sprung (or I am! :D) but it just gets way too skittish for me to exit quite that wide. My least favorite corner at Pacific because I ALWAYS feel like I've screwed it up.
 
If you are having to continually apply more steering input as you approach the exit, or if you are having to lift a bit off the throttle, then you are indeed too early on the apex. You can hit your turn in mark perfectly, but maybe turning in to quickly resulting in the early apex. From above, this definitely appears to be a very late apex, but again if you are not running out to the edge on exit, then the apex is too late.....just my observation. This is the most important corner at Pacific because of the long straight to follow. Gads, can't wait for racing season.
 
I'm doing it right, at least I'm doing it well enough.

For instance, due to the camber in the corner and the roughness of the pavement the picture is REALLY deceiving. If I try to brake later then some of my braking would end up being on the part of the corner that starts to camber combined with rough pavement which would mean I still can brake much later to for it to mean much. Also, while I AM turning in early, in relation to this picture, it's not actually early as the car is still sliding outwards and ceases to do so at just the point that I hit the apex.

If I end up higher in the corner at turn to create a later Apex I find that the surface has so little grip it's hard to get the car to turn and make it to the apex and if I slow down anymore it feels like sacrilege.

I think on a practice session I'm going to try something different, line it up a bit different and see if I can get more exit speed by entering in a fashion that is key to my setup.


Now I need to Google Earth the rest of track and see if the Satellite images show me anywhere else I can find time.

BTW: ORP is not on Google Earth yet :(
 
Turn 8 in the photo above had to be taken some time mid to late last year. Because..... the T-8 station has been repositioned to where I asked it to be placed prior to the SOVREN Defrost race.

It was located (by mistake) over at the end of the little paved extension off of the horseshoe shaped piece of pavement. Too far off the drivers line of sight.
 
Only you know the answer. next time take another line..if you spin out, then that was the wrong one. If you are this worried, give it up! Just get in your car and experiment until you see your lap times go down! You are trying to hard!

Cheers,
RM
 
more threads like this!

I don't have anything to contribute here, but this is the kind of thing I like to see. We can all find a few more tenths (at least most of us) and I like the discussions of individual corners and details here and there.

It's also great to see the usual Conference spirit of racers helping their competitors go faster!

Thanks all for the tips.

Joe
 
Will someone please fill the hole right after the dark part of the track, just after the paddock road?
I also take this corner really wide (wait a minute, we slid our cars all over every track we're on) and if you misjudge wide just another 3" -- BAM -- right into that accursed hole.
Do I have to come out with a shovel and fill this (and 3b exit )?
Am I allowed to?
I can bring out my compact tractor! Heck, I may take better lines with that.
 
That's a great question Bill......I certainly would be willing to volunteer for a day of track maintenance on those very things. Seems like a great idea unless insurance prevents any "unofficial" workers. I remember once in California offering to provide paint and labor to make the front of my son's elementary school more attractive, but was told it could not be done because of insurance issues, even if I signed a full on waiver. But a "workers party" to promote a better track facility would be a nice idea and I am sure a lot of dedicated somewhat retired racers would be more than happy to help out.
 
What about T2 at PR?

When I look at T2 at PR from this point of view I get all kinds of crazy ideas in my head.

One thing I've realized is that there's almost no slow way of going through this corner due to the size, radius and the quality of the new pavement. As long as you enter fast, control the slip angle and get on the gas early you're pretty going to get it right... I see it as a "seat of your pants" corner and the short wheelbase, FWD CRX is a real "Point-and-shoot" kind of car but I can't see a way to point-and-shoot through this corner quicker.

Has anyone, especially you fast FWD guys, found that one way is indeed faster than another?

braking, entry, apex, exit?


Here's some racing footage between Rick and I and you can see that between us we take all kinds of different lines through that corner and usually come out the same.

Video for reference:
http://vimeo.com/11455219


T2PR.png
 
now remember everyone that Colin is the current ITA track record holder at this track :) he was running in fear from Tucker and Rick hounding him the whole race
 
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That might be so Eric but I did it while flying by the seat of my pants. I wasn't being methodical in my approach and I wasn't quite as calm cool and collected as I wanted to be. I was just driving "flatout" trying to keep Rick behind me. The ONLY time I had an advantage on him was down the straight which isn't good enough. I need to be at least on par in corners as well.

I've already picked several people's brains on setup and know what I need to work on in that regard but learning the tracks and studying layouts is something I can do during the cold season.
 
one thing that looking down like this kinda hurts is the features of the ground it self like a crack you dont want the loaded tire to hit because 2-3 inches of that tire is now in the air. or in turn 8 where is the grip today that where i need to be to go the fastest. the best line may not look the best when overlayed on a map like this unless you can see the fine details.
 
One of the biggest problems with T8 is where the pavement changes from flat to banked. I've used the entry of the banking, while under slight trail braking, to help pitch the rear out helping my car turn into a corner on pavement that's 50 years old full of oil.

I've gone back and watched the video and compared it with the overlay and due to how the car is setup (push/pull/neutral) it appears that I am getting almost all I can out of that corner and with this research I have found an area of improvement. It might only get me a tenth, but I'll take it.

As for T2, the pavement is new and it has the same level of grip just about everywhere. It's not like the good ol' days when you had to "ride the patches". So with the new pavement my initial response in looking at it from the aerial view, is that I should brake as deep as I can toward the inside line, ride the rail (driving the shortest distance) then track out as soon grip and radius allow. The distance between the exit of T2 and braking for T3 is rather short. So the trade off is to brake later aiming for the inside, then ride the rail driving the shortest distance or is it to run mid track and turn into a late apex for a faster exit speed which will only have a small advantage before hitting the next gear and grabbing the brakes....

On that video I posted, I believe my 2nd to last lap was the track record and I think I was running the tight inside line. But I cannot conclude logically that just because my lap was fast, that my line in that one corner was best way through it.

Thoughts?
 
I just watched your (excellent) video here with Jeff (who ran FC at Pacific for a couple of years). We agree your line through T-8 is just about as good as it gets. However, we were both puzzled at your tight line through T-2. I hear what you are saying about the shortest distance but,cannot believe you couldn't gain a couple of 10th's or 100th's with a more 'classic' line.
 
FYI, the hole/dip exiting 3B (on drivers left) just prior to the exit of the Turn 3 runoff road, got fixed/patched at the start of last year. (if that the one you're talking about)

There's another hole (off line) driver's left at 5B. The asphalt was actually being undermined (I could put my whole fist into the hole and not touch dirt) the last time I looked at it.
mmmmm....new pavement dreams.
 
Only if everyone promises not to dig the hole out again. Pavement is for racing, dirt is for crashing. (grin)


Bossbill said:
Will someone please fill the hole right after the dark part of the track, just after the paddock road?
I also take this corner really wide (wait a minute, we slid our cars all over every track we're on) and if you misjudge wide just another 3" -- BAM -- right into that accursed hole.
Do I have to come out with a shovel and fill this (and 3b exit )?
Am I allowed to?
I can bring out my compact tractor! Heck, I may take better lines with that.
Click to expand...
 
The 3B exit hole on the right.

I'm using all of the track and sometimes the end of the berm just disappears into dirt. Huh.

But I'm sure if that hole is filled it will again become part of the racing surface and will get emptied out again.
 
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