See Honda, you ARE doing it wrong! :rant:

colin_koehler

colin_koehler

Great SCOTT!
There's 23 entries in NCW this coming weekend and not a single Honda/Acura among them.... Heck, all season long we've had huge NCW grids (well, ORP was a little sparse for NCW) and not a single Honda?! (Penick's Acura doesn't count)

Sure, we get made fun of all day long for being FWD but who cares!? We kick ass on race day and when it rains, FWD is king! (assuming AWD stayed home). Hondas are cheap to race, cheap to maintain and have copious amounts of aftermarket support where some of the aftermarket stuff is better than the original due to demand.

Just to point out, the top 3 fastest ITA cars at ORP were fastest than the top 3 ITS cars at ORP. 2 of those 3 ITA cars were Hondas. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

"You're killin' me smalls!"

End Rant
 
last year at ORP the top 6 ITA cars were faster then ITS and there were 2 miatas 2 bmw and 2 hondas. Honda's are still popular on the street and most are faster then your car Colin and have no real class it fit in to yet, and dont know the people that race to get them involved.
 
Honda is spending its racing money trying to take over Formula Ford (FF). Now, just known as Forumula "F" (FF) :) .

You guys need to get organized and start a Pro "H" group :) :)
 
I think it's just a cyclical thing. Right now, many new racers go into Miatas or BMW E30s thinking that small RWD cars are the ticket and that FWD cars can't be good race cars. Not long ago, I spent about ten minutes trying to convince a co-worker of mine (not a racer) that FWD cars can actually be used as race cars!!!

Our little FWD Hondas and Acuras can run with those cars and in many cases beat them (excepting the better prepared and driven Pro3 cars). It might just be an issue of educating the public on how good our cars really are as race cars. Cheap, reliable, fast, and they handle fairly well. And, as Colin noted, FWD cars have an advantage on a slick surface.

The "Honda epiphany" for me came when I was watching a NASA SoCal race at California Speedway several years back and saw a handful of Honda Challenge 4 cars (basically lighter weight ITA cars) tear through a large group of Spec Miatas. Most impressive!
 
mikecolangelo said:
Not long ago, I spent about ten minutes trying to convince a co-worker of mine (not a racer) that FWD cars can actually be used as race cars!!!
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That drives me almost as crazy as people who ask: "How fast does it go?"... I usually answer politely, but I really want to respond with: "I don't know, I haven't taken it to the salt flats yet." Or even: "As fast as it can!"

When talking with the non-racing public about the fact that I race cars, it's been my experience (before even telling them what I race) that they're thinking Roundy Round or Street Racing. But this is OK, because I've had to have other sports explained to me where I'm sure I frustrated the person trying to explain. Instead of trying to tell them about it I just give up and move right on to inviting them to the track to check it out.

I had a back and forth with a co-worker for 30 minutes who couldn't believe that I would spend the money to go racing without any possibility of winning any $$. Blew his mind. I told him, "It's no different than playing Hockey, riding Equestrian or riding dirt bikes. You have pay for your Hockey gear, your horses or your motor cycle. Why buy all that hockey gear if you're not going to make money playing hockey? Well, because your goal is to play, not profit and the gear is required to play. Such is our racing. The car/cage/suit and helmet are the gear needed to go play. He just didn't get it. It was like preaching Allah to Kenny Chesney.... Crickets

mikecolangelo said:
Our little FWD Hondas and Acuras can run with those cars and in many cases beat them (excepting the better prepared and driven Pro3 cars).
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Eh hem... The top 3 ITA cars are faster than at least half the PRO3 field! :tongue: And that isn't just Rick and me. It's Tucker's 325e as well.

mikecolangelo said:
The "Honda epiphany" for me came when I was watching a NASA SoCal race at California Speedway several years back and saw a handful of Honda Challenge 4 cars (basically lighter weight ITA cars) tear through a large group of Spec Miatas. Most impressive!
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And when you get a 4.7 FD and a set of Purple Crack or C51's you'll go by the Miatas even faster.
 
Hey, quit ganging up on the Miatas...some of my best friends drive Honda's. Mike - why did you buy a Mazda 2 and not the Honda Fit? Colin, your just a stud driver!! Hate to think what you would do to a large SM field behind the wheel of a nicely prepped SM.
 
My first race car was a Jetta, running on 1/4 mile ovals. Strike one and two for most "real" race car drivers. I towed it to the track behind a Rabbit GTI on an open trailer. Some of the funnest times I have ever had.

Don't waste your time justifying whether the front or rear wheels provide the go, or whether or not there are fenders over them, if it's on a track and you're driving it at the limit, it's a real race car.
 
Colin,

If you want to see more Hondas racing, you need to grow interest at the Honda club level. PRO3 built itself up by promoting the racing opportunity to BMW Club members who were looking to go one step up from the club type lapping days. And, the Honda folks need to diligently rent their cars out to Novices to give them a taste of racing. Many a PRO3 driver got their start with a subsidized rental, and in turn are expected to pay it forward at some point and rent their car to someone who is considering making the jump to road racing. Even the most current Portland NCW entry list for this weekend shows a number of novices driving PRO3 cars that they do not own.

For every car on the grid you will find a local car club interested in it's exploits.
 
Colin,
I seriously looked into a Honda that was for sale before H4 was adopted in to ICSCC . It was a a conversion and not IT legal so I backed off knowing I could only run it in one run group. Later H4 was brought on and several new cars showed up but over the years even some of them disappeared. I am not sure if H2 or another one of the NASA Honda Challenge classes would have fit better. A Pro class like Pro 3 would greatly increase the Honda numbers . Didn't Honda just dump a bunch of money into their Motorsports program ?

Mike
 
What ever happened to all of the Honda/Michelin Series cars up in Canada?

I think the Series is dead and there should be a bunch of fine, fine little Honda race cars laying around up there.
 
Randy Blaylock said:
My first race car was a Jetta, running on 1/4 mile ovals. Strike one and two for most "real" race car drivers. I towed it to the track behind a Rabbit GTI on an open trailer. Some of the funnest times I have ever had.
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HAHA! OMG -- Is there anything you haven't raced Randy?
 
You want to race Hondas? You need to attend the conference races at Mission.
We have tons of them racing here . Don't forget Fast Dad's weekend comming up June 17 ( practice day ) 18 and 19th.

Cheers RS
 
I've thought about a Pro-Honda class but I don't like it. I don't like the uniformity in class. The culture in PRO3 I find appealing, but running a Spec series, I don't. Once they get too popular they tend to get way too expensive. Improved Touring, with its difference in cars has worked pretty well at keeping costs down and racing close. So while I would like to see more Hondas (and not just Hondas specifically) I prefer to grow a class like ITA/ITX as it's fun racing cars that run similar lap times but have strengths in different parts of the course.

I talked to a guy today that does SCCA time attack with a Honda Hatchback with a B-series swap and he just ordered a supercharger and he was talking about getting a cage and going road racing. I talked in length with him about the pros and cons of running swaps, etc. He admitted he liked the idea more of keeping his current car a time attack and already buying a built race car and I mentioned the 2 locally that are for sale.

But this kind of proves my point. Those in the non road racing Honda group are about swaps and power and think that you have to go fast to go racing. So here's where the Spec series has its draw. It's a "spec" series so there's no question. If someone wants to go racing in an E30 they're probably thinking PRO3 or Spec E30 (depending on where they live) same with a Miata owner. But with Hondas you have the Honda challenge in which H4 essentially died off (I'm speaking NASA level not just Conference) as the mass exodus lead everyone to swap in B-Motors and move to H2, just so they could show up at the same places, in the same cars to race the same people but instead spend another $10-15K just to go 4 seconds a lap faster.

Since I have an open trailer, when I fill gas with race car in tow I often get asked: "What do you have in that thing?"... I'm curious if people who tow a PRO3 car or Spec Miata with an open trailer ever get asked that question from strangers?

You know what I think would help grow ITA/ITX? Awesomeness. First of all, the community between us is terrific, always a helping hand and not just at the track but coaching each other off track. But mostly, awesomeness on track. Rick, Tucker, Eric and I have shown that we can race fast, up front, closely and safely over and over and it's exciting. I'm hoping that a few of the others join us up front soon too. I know that fans in the stands like watching the show and if we can keep putting on that show I know other soon-to-be novices might see it and say, "Oh I want to race in that group!"

How you do get more cars in your class? You have to put on a good show. I know this fact alone has been a huge contributor for PRO3 because they always put on a good show on track. However, if ITA/ITX can do the same while keeping it affordable and safe, it could be a huge draw once again.


I am deliberately ranting because that was the nature of creating this thread FYI.

So feel free, join in, rant away!
 
What are your thoughts of the new STL ? It it appears it is in place to eliminate IT .. Different cars with the same allowances that brings IT style cars closer together.
 
mike_poorboy said:
What are your thoughts of the new STL ? It it appears it is in place to eliminate IT .. Different cars with the same allowances that brings IT style cars closer together.
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Aside from the .425" valve lift restriction (which was clearly aimed at keeping the better Honda engines out of the class), I like this class. All I'd need to do is swap in a B16A2 engine into my CRX and it'd be a strong STL car.

Nationwide, at this point in time, STL has become the double-dipping class for Spec Miatas. But I don't think they'll be that competitive against a true STL car. They have to run as Spec Miatas.

For the Honda guys: STL encourages engine swaps BUT requires you to run a USDM engine. If you read the rules closely, the language is there to keep JDM engines out.
 
And I don't think the SCCA wants to kill off the IT classes. They simply wanted a class that they could more easily check for compliance. The goal is to eventually turn STL into a national class.
 
While I'm not a fan of STL I don't imagine it would replace IT.

However, after scouring the internet boards and so on and so forth it is clear that Hondas are synonymous with "swaps". It's the trend, it's the future. So apparently, I'm doing it wrong.

I'll the take the longview because I'm curious to see how long these people who are building B and K swapped Hondas will last racing STL before they can't justify the cost. I wonder if the average churn will be less than 3 years?
 
colin_koehler said:
Since I have an open trailer, when I fill gas with race car in tow I often get asked: "What do you have in that thing?"... I'm curious if people who tow a PRO3 car or Spec Miata with an open trailer ever get asked that question from strangers?
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Worse than that, Colin - I was at Miller last year in the e30, and the starter asked me what I had in that thing ... "uhhh, pretty much a stock m20". I don't think that was the answer they were looking for. It's a lot more fun per dollar that way, though!

On the Honda thing, I think Lance hit the nail on the head above - you (or whoever takes on the role of infusing new Honda blood into the paddock) needs to get connected with the local Honda community. I think you'll find that 90% of the crowd are comfortable putting large bore mufflers on them and blackout on the windows, and that's where it will end. The 10% you want (or 5%, 2%, whatever) will come out to the track to play with cars as a paddock-guy, then get sucked into a driving school, then the novice program, and sooner than you know, they are next to you on the track. That's the way it started, and continues with pro3 (maybe minus the blackout, but not really), through the local car clubs.

Just my $0.02, from a sorta-Honda guy ...

Dan
 
I am not a FWD guy. Nothing against them. Had one and the damn thing kept going like the Energizer Bunny (no shot a VW Rabbits intended) until it was punted in the wall for the third time at a ChumpCar race. But I am a RWD or AWD guy. I plan on being an OW guy by next year. For now I am just a Broke-Car guy.
 
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