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CHRONOS

Bringing back scary cars
I have read the rules and this appears to be perfectly legal due to the lack of rules for sports racers but tell me what you think.

Im putting two Yamaha R1 engines back to back sideways in the car for a total of 8 cylinders - 40 valves and 1996 cc's, one central driveshaft back to an off the shelf IRS diff. This places the car in CSR as the total displacement is under 2000 cc's. with turbos it would bump up one class to BSR.

My question is, will this car cause a stir leading to a rule change because it uses two engines?
 
Radical did something somewhat similar to this with 2 Suzuki engines. Although, I think they combined them in to a custom block.

At least in SCCA, they say, if it doesn't say you CAN do it, you cannot do it!

Would love to see you play Tommy Ivo in ICSCC though :) Bet you'll spend a lot of time keeping the engines syncronized :(

Have you raised this question on the Sports Racer Forum??
 
No I dont want to raise the question on a SCCA board, we have a complete different rules for sports racers, our FSR is their DSR and they have all kinds of tunnel rules. they would blow a fuse at the mere mention of two engines.

Radical had to engineer their own block and gearbox at an imense cost, doubt if the company will ever recover from it. I dont want to reinvent the wheel, this isnt a new concept and it sure as heck isnt mine. I just want to do it with existing pieces with the exception of the drive mechanism. I will probly be told years from now it was used on a push mower in the 50's. sounds like a fun project though dosnt it. Front half of the chassis is done and I was getting ready to bend and fab the rear connection to the engine and I spun the engine sideways and pushed it to one side and the idea hit me, two are always better than one! cant wait to hear a 40 valve V8 at full song.

Put a lot of thought into keeping the engines in the same gear, it will shut down both engines if one dosnt shift in sync, a four paddle system will allow you to resync them on the fly should that ever happen.

using the stock FI so they should be very equal in power, each counter shaft will be geared to its own jackshaft, one over and one under a center drive shaft
 
This sounds like an exercise in frustration just waiting to happen Daryl. Good luck with that bit of techo voo-doo. SR's are hard enough to keep running as it is man, but I'll be the first to congratulate you after your first full lap is completed! Or perhaps I'll just moon you as you drive by!
 
LOL I had that one coming. Drive mech is simple, not a concern about reliability there, but the gear selection has to be perfect, especially on downshift. I figure it will put out around 350 HP without turbos and weigh 1000 #s, shouldnt be a need to push the engines hard at all, with turbos were talking ca am realm power to weight. but do you guys see an issue with rules?
 
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The engineering side of my mind can't help but think (without really seeing where you are at in the real world) that the two engines should be physically linked or joined however you intend to do it with a single transmission downstream of both. No matter how you do this it is going to be a complex beast, but from a functional standpoint it seems like you would be miles ahead by essentially linking the engines fixed in a single gear and conveying the power from both to one transmission.

The idea of a 350 hp #1000 sport racer is entertaining, but having two engines that even have the possibility of being in different gears sounds like a precursor to dodging large bowls of "oil with crunchy silver bits soup" for your competitors.

Interesting engineering problem though.
 
one trans will not work rick, it would be too long with clutch and would have to be a 12k+ hewland to handle the power.

each engine uses its orig trans, the drive shaft comes from a 4 shaft setup that inables both engines to transmit power to one driveshaft in the right direction since the engines are opposing and have reversed rotating countersprockets.

the driveshaft then goes to a IRS third member. this is why the duel shifting mech has to be so precise and have to be failsafe.
 
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An Interocitor by Ryberg Electronics may be a better option . . . .

By the way one word on your proposed sports racer concept: "AWESOME!!"

Walt
 
I will probly be told years from now it was used on a push mower in the 50's.
Click to expand...

Well, I was just re- reading The Stainless Steel Carrot, and Morton talks about racing
go- karts with 2 engines... and that would have been late '50's, early '60's...

It'd certainly be in the 'hang on tight' department! Go for it!

t
 
My freind was racing karts in the early 70's with two Mac 91 A'S, (Macullah?)I took it for a spin around the hood, it would do 80 at the drop of a hat, felt like 200, karts handling was still fairly crude back then.

Ya, im lookin for the "hang on tight" right now, My YZ 250 shouldnt make my racecar feel slow, I turned 50 a few weeks ago and Tom's death made me think I better start enjoying these years, he was only 48.
 
tobybasiliko said:
....karts with 2 engines... and that would have been late '50's, early '60's....
Click to expand...

INDEED. Drove one with 2 McCulloch chain saw engines on it in either 1960 or 1961. Live axle twin sprockets one engine on each side at the back. Yup faster then a snot drip at a March ICSCC enduro :rolleyes:

Don't know zackly when they were bourne but it might have been around that time.
 
Im looking for a rear drive IRS diff that (1) is alum cased and light. (2) cheap and plentiful. (3) has either aftermarket alt gear ratios avail or more than one stock ratio. (4) must have limited slip with tightening capability.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Im told the 2nd gen RX7 is way too bulky, dont know anything about the 200 sx or 240 sx or any of the ZX's.

My rear spars are first going to mount the engines and driveline assys so I have to have the diff set in place so it can go from rear of main chassis all the way to rear wing mount. this whole rear section will be bolt on by the way. one chassis, many configurations of drivetrain. may go to 1400 zx engines or bigger eventually
 
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Those work good, same type as a Nissan 380/300ZX. The R180 will work just fine for the HP. R200's are good for higher torque and HP but they are harder to find and especially the LSD. If you want LSD there are parts available for the R180 or R200, or you can hunt the wrecking yards and find a Subaru one, though they are not as easy to find as it is made out to be. Converting the drive shafts to a CV Joint is easy too.
 
R1 engine number two has been secured, will be here friday. going with a RX7/Miata hybrid rear diff after a big diet.
 
The twin R1 engine combination is very interesting but my first concern is rpm matching an both acceleration and de-celeration. If they are coupled directly together, an overdrive situation will destroy one of the transmissions. I run an R1 in my sport racer and the transmission is the weakest link according to my engine builder.

Good luck.
 
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