More “fuel for the fire” on the discussion about getting out of your car in a fire.

Any hands-on fire extinguisher practice/instruction is always productive. It is the 'different' kind of experience that can stick with you. The feel of that bottle going off in your hands, and the snuffing of 'it', is totally unique, and it does much to allay the tension and anx that you might get from just carrying it to the incident. Then any subsequent re-enforcement of that same experience at any time is no less satisfying than before.

Besides Chump Car doesn't do ROD.
 
You said it Bonnie "some training way back when"
For all that ISCCC does right, I just don't want to see us get too big for our britches and rest on our laurels.

Sorry, missed the Indy race schedule. Since the demise of Vancouver and Portland it kinda fell off my radar.

So, onto Plan B (ÉÉ)
(those are supposed to be question marks, but these are now showing up grrrrrr..... what bloody key did I hit this timeÉ)
 
I am required to attend a fire school every so often at work which is fine, but fighting a fire in a car is different than fighting one in a pan. Many moons ago, we torched a car at PIR. One of the educational things I noted was that, while the headliner was completely consumed by the fire, a styrofoam cup sitting on the seat did not melt. Even though the fire is in a small enclosed space, there can be a huge temperature differential between the floor and the roof. I had expected that the space would be too small for that large a differential. There are also tricks to be learned about how to get to the fire without popping the hood and giving it more air. Fire school using a burning car is more educational that just snuffing out a pan.
 
Frankly, the comment that turn workers may not have any idea what a HANS looks like or how to unhook it scares me almost as much as the concept of them not knowing how to use a fire bottle.
There are probably some drivers who would have a very difficult time exiting the car with helmet and HANS intact, especially if it had to be through the window, especially if there had been a roll-over and the car compressed, and/or especially if they have the head-restraint wings on their seat like I do now.

If I need to exit my car in a hurry and someone is trying to help, I want them to know how to undo a HANS.
Might be instructive to have the turn workers gather around someone's racecar and have the driver do a fully-suited exit to show the difficulties which may present themselves.
If I, and car, are in attendance when you have your practice, I would be glad to help out.
 
How fast can you get out of your own HANS. That's the real key. You don't have time to wait. If you aren't out of it by the time I get there, I'm cutting the straps. I don't care how it's built.

10 seconds... Unassisted.

+/- for CW.
 
karen_stimson said:
Frankly, the comment that turn workers may not have any idea what a HANS looks like or how to unhook it scares me almost as much as the concept of them not knowing how to use a fire bottle.
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FWIW, the issue with getting Simona out of the car (and this is something Richard Broadhead talked about) was NOT due to her HANS device and WAS due to the "head bolster" or "cockpit surround" that they use as both an aerodynamic aid (to help reduce the effects of the cockpit) and as somewhere for the driver to rest their head on ovals. (F1 uses something similar, but the safety aspect of that is to raise the sides of the cockpit and theoretically help prevent injuries like what killed Senna.) They narrow up the cockpit opening by their very nature and it can be difficult and/or impossible for a driver to get out of the car without first removing it.

HOWEVER, this is not an issue for Conference, unless someone shows up with an OW car that utilizes some kind of cockpit surround. You make a good point about the seat "wings," though, which can be especially difficult for long-torso'd folks such as myself.
 
My comments about the HANS were in response to Bonnie's --if she's not handled a HANS before then I'm sure there are others who don't know how they work either.
Cutting the straps would work if necessary, but the responding workers should at least know what they are up against. Information and experience are a good thing.
 
Ah, yes, I see that now. It's not 100% clear to me whether Bonnie's really talking about the cockpit surround or HANS (yes, I know she's using that term, so I'll assume she is), but I find it mildly disturbing that any longtime track worker doesn't know how to remove a HANS... it's not like we're talking about one of the less-common devices like an ISAAC. Then again, I wonder WHY we'd want to remove a HANS in the course of extracting the driver?
 
Steve Adams said:
..... I wonder WHY we'd want to remove a HANS in the course of extracting the driver?
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You are correct, Steve. First of all lets back up. If this is 'post crash' we can hopefully WAIT until the experts arrive aka E-crew personel before thinking about driver extraction. They are trained to review and handle neck injury's (despite the driver wearing a HANS). HANS is intended to protect you from a basal skull fracture but that's near the limits of the human neck. It doesn't mean you don't have any neck injury.

Although ways it can get hung up are probably greater upon exiting the car, I suspect 'most' drivers put their HANS on their shoulders before entering and after leaving the car. Unless something really odd has happened, there's no reason to disconnect the straps to the helmet when a driver is exiting a car post crash if absolutely necessary.

But they are also RIGHT. Unless you've done it, I DOUBT most turn workers have a clue how to unfasten the HANS straps. But if we are well prepared, we ALL have a 'cutter' on us ready to use. Better a set of HANS straps then losing the whole body.
 
Steve Adams said:
..... this is not an issue for Conference, unless someone shows up with an OW car that utilizes some kind of cockpit surround......
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The SCCA FE cars (Formula Enterprises) cars use cockpit bolsters but I've never seen an FE on the Northwest.... LOL

The very latest generation FC's have a bolster also. But we're talking about the $40,000 plus Pre Series cars. I'm not aware of anybody in the Northwest that's planning on springing for one of them real soon.

I think both the FE and new FC bolsters are two piece. Little different then the IRL type.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 'next generation' of FB body's having bolsters. Sorta surprised none of them have it yet for aero. They are looking for the last ounze of aero slippery on those things.
 
Richard,
I have never put gear on before getting in the car, and most of the time I take off Hans and helmet before exiting--just easier that way. The whole thing is easier if all parts of everything, including car door, work the way they are supposed to.

What will make this whole procedure much more "fun" is if the door no longer opens--hence my comments about going through the window with all stuff on, especially with seat head-restraint wings--what if the steering wheel release jams?. Smaller cars like the Rx7 have smaller windows--it is a pain to exit through window in full gear.
Trying to make sure that e-crew can handle worst case should be part of the deal. If the driver isn't fitting through the window with all gear on, then the HANS would probably be the problem and hence, need to be removed. This would get more critical if fire were involved.

Drivers--we had to lube the steering wheel release collar before the first race this year, as it was starting to jam and was a struggle to get off--taking many precious seconds. Recommend you test yours.
 
Because I run enduro's, I like to stay in the habit of getting in and out of the car with all of my safety gear on, even in the 3 that has a Halo seat. I also feel better about the fact that I can check that all of my gear is done up correctly prior to getting into a cramped cockpit.
We are planning to test and time getting out of the car with gear on, after our discussions about the fire event at the 25 this year. I drove by, just as the car really started to burn, and couldn't tell what kind of car it was! You have to get out fast, there is no time to remove gear. If we can't average 15 seconds to get out and clear, we are making changes to the car to facilitate it. Period.

Jeff

PS I am fat and slow, is there any kind of fire retardant grease available?
 
karen_stimson said:
Richard,
I have never put gear on before getting in the car, and most of the time I take off Hans and helmet before exiting--just easier that way. The whole thing is easier if all parts of everything, including car door, work the way they are supposed to.

What will make this whole procedure much more "fun" is if the door no longer opens--hence my comments about going through the window with all stuff on, especially with seat head-restraint wings--what if the steering wheel release jams?. Smaller cars like the Rx7 have smaller windows--it is a pain to exit through window in full gear.
Trying to make sure that e-crew can handle worst case should be part of the deal. If the driver isn't fitting through the window with all gear on, then the HANS would probably be the problem and hence, need to be removed. This would get more critical if fire were involved.

Drivers--we had to lube the steering wheel release collar before the first race this year, as it was starting to jam and was a struggle to get off--taking many precious seconds. Recommend you test yours.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that on a big track, it can take more than a mnute to get a truck to you. ORP leaps to mind. We drive fast, but we are in much faster traffic and can't always use the racing line. Then add in time to pull you out of the car while it is a flaming inferno. Every drive should make a habit of getting in and out while wearing full gear or you may end up in a world of hurt. Every worker will stomp on a fire as best they can, but in a bad fire, you will only have a few seconds to bail out.
 
Just note, I am not disagreeing with any of you about driver responsibility. I was practicing bail-outs last week. Recommend, like Jeff, that others make sure they can do it also.
Just trying to say we need to cover the what-ifs. I think the original safety discussion started with "what if" I'm upside down. Or what if I'm unconscious? ...
 
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