Do we have a new "bad boy" group for 2010?

[robjacobsen]

Will we see a trend or did the trip to the woodshed work last weekend. Group 1 seemed to be trying for the mantle of "Bad Boys Club" last weekend. In their defense, they did put on a good race that was tight, hard fought and clean. Unfortunately the same can't be said for final qualifying on Sunday During one incident that took 2-3 laps to clear due to the collapsed front suspension on a Mazda, there were 14 passes under yellow and a couple of dangerous driving. The dangerous driving got my attention. I was driving Safety2 and was stopped in the shield position on drivers right exiting turn 7. As normal, I was watching my mirror to be able to warn the workers dealing with the broken car of anyone out os control coming their way. Too my disbelief I see two cars sliding out of turn 7 putting on a drifting demonstration rather than driving the line. They were far enough sideways that I could read the numbers on the far side of the cars. That was when the session was stopped with the black flag. Let's hope the trip to the wood shed will get the drivers of Group 1 to raise their game to the level we saw in the race.

 

[Lynn Rimmer]

Well, it's has been a long winter and it probably just felt good to get out there again.
But having said that, some of the passes were being set up AFTER they passed the standing yellow at Trn 6. You could see the passes going to happen.
However, I think the steward and the race chair got the message across, and all groups paid attention. Thank you for that.

It was a great race weekend though, and the Grp 3 & 6 combo, small grid that is was, put on one hell of a race. I don't know how many times we called a leader change.
Cudoos to all.

OK onto Seattle!!!! (must check the weather network...it's just pouring here)

 

[Randy Blaylock]

I'd really hate to think that any of us would intentionally give the workers anything less than the full regard they deserve in these situations. I don't want to be a part of a group like that.

I fully appreciate the risks the workers assume out on the circuit, and the dangers they face, and am very grateful that they will do what they do. I'm pretty sure they assume these risks with the assumption that the drivers will conduct themselves as expected, and when they don't the workers rightfully have a reason to be concerned, or even angry. Hopefully the message was received.

I wasn't personally out in that session during the incident, so I can't speak from an informed position. I'd like to think all drivers will follow procedure when they become aware of a yellow flag condition. I'd really hate to think anyone would disregard a yellow flag condition for the sake of a qualifying time.

Having said that, the fact that there were 14 passes under yellow raises a question to me, whether there is a problem with visibility. I'm not making excuses, but 14 incidents is a trend that can't really be explained by a mass shift in driver attitude.

I know from personal experience that the turn 6 station is not in a location where my eyes naturally go when driving. I'm trying to look ahead around the turn to the left. I make a special effort to pay attention for this reason. I'm not making any excuses for drivers not seeing flags at turn 6, because it's our responsibility to ensure that we do. But, if we're going to be honest with each other, that turn station location is not so good.

The fact that the turn 7 station was not staffed also didn't help, as a yellow flag there is in line with where a driver's eyes are looking and so much more visible, and would have backed up the T6 station.

Again, I'm not making excuses, there is no excuse for what happened. But, speaking for myself, maybe there is a way to improve the visibility of the turn 6 station somehow. This could only improve compliance.

 

[Lynn Rimmer]

Randy, I know that there has been talk (don't know how far it got) about some sort of lighting system at Turn 7 in Seattle. And there used to be a light system at Turn 10 in Portland to back up the yellow flags.
If visibility at Turn 6 is a problem, then maybe a suggetion of a yellow light system there could be put forth.

But again, point in fact, is that when a car comes out of Turn 5, there is direct line of sight straight ahead to the Turn 6 station, and having that many drivers not see the yellow, lap after lap, me thnks visibility was not the problem for the bulk of the passes. There was also a waving white at Turn 6 that should have gotten their attention as this flag is only waved when there is an emegency/pace vehicle in the immediate area.

The drivers also had excellant visibilty of the Safety truck with it's blinding bright flashing light bar, and bright yellow paint job, and they were still over driving and passing just PRIOR to the Safety truck.
This is the same safety truck that suffered over $7000.00 in damages from being hit last year by a race car and badly bruising the worker that was sitting in the jump seat in the back of the truck when it got hit.
I know all of the Stewards, including you, take this seriously and will have a handle on it.
I also think that it was the season's first race and now hopefully it is out of their system. And we just go on from here.

 

[martin_berryman]

I was one of the drivers in Grp 1 who did not give the turn workers due regard. For me it was not a visibilty problem, simply me not using my brain. The description of "drifting" is too kind, as drifting implies complete control of the vehicle, something I cannot claim. The conversations with the officials put my focus back where it belongs - on the safety of the volunteers who come out and support us. It is paramount that we not be too selfish to remember that at all times. To the workers on Safety2 - I'm truly sorry.

Martin Berryman
PRO3 #131

 

[Lynn Rimmer]

Thank you Martin for stepping up to the plate.
I think it's drivers like you that can help spread the word to other's that the turns and safety/e-crew people need to be taken care of.
Hope to see you in Seattle.

 

[bob_mearns]

Speaking for myself only, I saw the flags in T6 easily. While I didn't pass under yellow or get sideways exiting 7, I am guilty of going too fast in the area of the incident. Gary and Bill got my attention in the drivers meeting, and I take the point. It won't happen again.

 

[Ken Killam]

I wasn't in the trucks Saturday (back in Sunday), I have a great team that has my full confidence to perform above and beyond, when necessary.

But I have been subjected to the situation countless hundreds (yes, hundreds) of times over a couple decades, or so. And way back when, using no more than a 4-banger, 4-speed, Nissan parts delivery truck with a blinky light on top before we (CSCC) obtained the Jim Swanson Memorial Safety Truck. The situation Satuday is NOT new. The situation is exactly what has been touched on here.

Drivers will get into the rhythm, and block much other than themselves and the wall of car around them. As long as they 'feel' in control, they truly believe that they are, and that all is right with the world. It's a comfort zone, for sure. A zone that requires a voluntary effort to bring yourself out of when the situation on the track changes. It is the nature of things.

Gary mentioned, a couple times, that the Safety Marshals were "scared". That may well be true. Anyone in a mentally stable condition should be. Of course anyone with a completely mentally stable condition might not find themselves voluteering for such duty. But after awhile and so many years, it's not "scared" so much as pissed off... disgusted... dissappointed that we have to deal with those situations that ONE driver of maybe 30 needs our assistance, and the other 29 do not seem to care any more about that, as they do passing any other 'pylon'.

The flag station are in the same spots that they have been in for many seasons now. That is a consistency that is as, probably more important to us as any lap times. I won't speak for Dan Wilkins, CSCC Flag Marshall Chief, but if we have enough volunteers to man them, we would be running T7 every weekend. The truth is, we don't. But we're working on it.

Once they get there, let's not "scare" them away... At least not all of them.

BFA to ya. Lose that track time that is so precious when the competition is tight. The Officials are under no particular obligation to give the Group any time back from it's loss due to a BFA. So there's a different kind of 'chance' those drivers that find themselves in that 'zone' might consider. You may be messing it up for everybody else in your group.

I appreciate all that the drivers, collectively do, have done, and will continue to do for our great sport and those that live to enjoy it. We all want to go home with all of our fingers, and all of our tows.

Stay safe,

Ken "Fats" Killam, TPFD

Chief Safety Marshal, CSCC

 

[Richard Broadhead]

Randy, I know that there has been talk (don't know how far it got) about some sort of lighting system at Turn 7 in Seattle......

?? Really ??

I don't see how the drivers could have a problem seeing the Turn 7 flags, Lynn. They are just about driving and looking right into the flag station. Only problem there might be early morning sessions when the glare of the sun could (might) cause some problems.

If there is an abnormal PUY problem there I'd suspect it's caused by sweeping through 7 at high speed into that huge wide track area, not seeing a car seriously in danger and going for the pass entering 8. The good passing section is just too much to resist on occasion.

WELL over 60% of the passes under yellow at Seattle do occur at TURN 8! And there's a reason for that. That's a real problem station. And it became a bigger problem when somebody decided to MOVE the station about 50 or 60 feet from where it belongs about 2 years ago. The move took it way off the line-of-sight of a driver entering T-8.

The stations 'area of control' goes directly out of the station to the end of the burm across the track. When drivers come out of 7 and enter the braking zone, their eyes are looking NOWHERE near the station and they have to stay focused on the turn in point so they don't run out of pavement and end up in the dirt. This is a bigger problem for drivers with full face helmets where the peripheral vision is already limited.

P.S.
As I've seen it from T7 & T9 stations, I'm also aware that "some" of the PUY's at Turn 8 AREN'T! Newer flaggers tened to over extend the 'zone of control' for the yellow flag back toward T7 ignoring the point where the yellow flag becomes effective. They think if the driver can see the flag at all he shouldn't be passing..... not true. Only passes beyond the end of the burm are PUY's.

Sorry to hear about the troubles at Portland. But I agree with Randy. That is NOT typical of Group 1 or any other of our racing groups. Curious.. Hmmm.

P.P.S.
The WORST PLACE to respond at Pacific is the exit of Turn 6 and up the hill! Really scary to go out there and see cars sweeping out of T-6 at what to the viewers senses seems to be FULL RACE TILT. They come through there under a waving yellow at speeds that could not avoid a collision if a car were blocking the track. Fortunately, that hasn't occured, yet. On the other hand, you have to appreciate if a driver takes just 5 MPH off of his speed, he is (probably) in total and complete control. Yes, sometimes I do pucker up there at the T-6 exit but I do have great faith in the talents of our drivers (hopefully justified, has been so far).

 

[Lynn Rimmer]

Actually Rick, the placement of Turn 8 at PR has been discussed for that very reason, but it was mentioned of putting lights in at Turn 7.
(pre-cursor to the flag status at turn 8 maybe?)

I think that this is something that should be dealt with and set up some sort of vivid station placement paint for Turn 8 to be moved back to, after the dragsters have needed to move it out of the way.

Turn 8 as it is, is a tough one to yellow from as well, as you are trying to cover about 240 degrees of real estate, and none of us are built like owls.
So Rick, why don't you spearhead them moving this station for this coming weekend for effectiveness and safety? I'm all for it. And then tee up with Turn 7 for their area of coverage. I have worked with different TM's at Turn 8, and they have all had slightly different versions of the end of Turn 7 and the Start of Turn 8.

And no, what happened this past weekend is not typical or usual of any group, but every blue moon it happens, and the drivers just need a reminder.

So are you crewing or donning the whites this weekend??

 

[Richard Broadhead]

1.
Turn 8 as it is, is a tough one to yellow from as well, as you are trying to cover about 240 degrees of real estate, and none of us are built like owls.

2.
So Rick, why don't you spearhead them moving this station for this coming weekend for effectiveness and safety? I'm all for it. And then tee up with Turn 7 for their area of coverage.

3.
I have worked with different TM's at Turn 8, and they have all had slightly different versions of the end of Turn 7 and the Start of Turn 8.

4.
So are you crewing or donning the whites this weekend??

ANSWERS:[/B]

1.
True, but really not as bad a swivel neck as trying to keep your yellow-eye-ball on the arc of T-2 due to the way you stand in the station.

2.
I WILL!
Once upon a time when it 1st happened, Rich Wexler and I took Steve Caputo down there and asked him to put the station BACK where it belonged. No results. But now that we have a NEW track master in the form of Tracie, perhaps she can get it done. I'll try with her.

I'll be out at Pacific from Thursday to Sunday. I'll try to contact her on Thursday, if not, certainly Friday.

3.
Yes on that issue. Actually I've often thought of how NICE it would be to have 'thin' yellow lines across the track at ALL turn stations indicating to the drivers and workers where the zone of control starts. But, that could be messy in the long run. T-8 would be a good place to try it though.

4.
Dressed in white this weekend
Speaking of which, I have to do laundry today and iron tomorrow.. Ugghhh.

 

[the_driver]

i was one of the 14 passes under yellow. i did try not to pass but the car i was passing between 6 and 7 was off line going very slow 30-40mph and slowing more also was waving me to pass like he was a disabled vehicle . i did slow down to not pass and he slowed down more so I made the decision to make the pass as slow as i could but before turn 7 because i could see a vehicle off line to the inside exit of turn 7. im not sure i could have done it differently with the other vehicle slowing down to let me pass and cause other issues with cars behind us.

Eric Blois at the time in SPM 92