Cost of Racing... I need your help Eric!

colin_koehler

colin_koehler

Great SCOTT!
I didn't want to hi-jack the HANS thread any further so I decided to start a new thread:


the_driver said:
my normal race weekend is under 400 Colin
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I use all the costs associated with racing in the equation. With that being said do you still come to the same number? If so, I could use your help.

Between food, lodging, towing costs and fuel... then if you average in Oil changes, brake pads/rotors, tires etc etc, I can't see how you're doing it that cheap.

If I use a local track (PR) it works like this:

Entry: $275
15 gal 92 octane (racecar): $55
Food and beverage and Ice for the cool shirt: $50
Fuel to get to and from track/towing: $80
Worker Fund donation: $10-20/race (It's better than nothing!)

Just that I'm at $470

Then if I take the 4-6 sets of brake pads I use during the year, rotors, engine build or off-season freshening, oil changes, tires, mounting balancing, dyno tuning, etc and amortize that over however many weekends I race that probably adds $200-300 per weekend making my average per weekend between $700-1000... If I double enter, add another $150 to those weekends.

If I'm going to a track beyond Pacific Raceways, I have to then account for increased towing fuel, and Hotel lodging.

Are you taking into account all racing expenses or just Entry fee and fuel?
 
local race for me would be PIR im a CSCC member so last year it was 225 i think. only use 12 gals of 92 on my normal weekend price is only 3.41 last i looked i was 2.40s most of last year, 2 gals to get the car to the track and back remember i still do not have a tow vehicle. food is cheap lunch is normally provided so i donate 2-5 $ for lunches. one set of pads will last me my season 6-8 race weekends same with rotors could go longer but the enduros usually use the rotors from that year. one set of dry tires will last a season for me. at tracks farther away ill pictch a tent. If/ when i go with Tucker ill stay on the floor if he gets a hotel room. driving to PR 185miles or OPR 144 miles the race car get about 25 mpg fully loaded, on the rain tires for the weekend. my motor builds are about 500$ in parts and last about 35-40hrs lol ask me how i know that one, no need to dyno i cant change the tune. routine replacement is when things no longer work. i know what power and tq my motors make with how i build them from the first couple i built and dyno'd and i know the AFR sucks but the motor does not seem to mind being at 14.1-1 at wot. i guess if i total everything im just over 500 a weekend
 
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you gotta pay to go fast and your car is very fast Colin so is everyone that is up front in ITA. if all the fast drivers and cars showed up in ITA the same weekend i would expect to finish about 7-10 and fighting good battles :). but thats the car i built. buying the car, cage, suspension, a set of rims and tires , seat and fire system im under 4k in parts just saying
 
Man, my rotors and pads last about two race weekends and I drive a CRX just like Colin. They last even less at Mission. :(

It's a good thing that Miata and CRX rotors go for about $25 each!
 
all 4 rotors less then 100$ here :D, i choose this car because pro3 and specE30 were taking off so i thought useing the same chassis would mean parts would be cheap and lots of information out there. and with a car the got 30 mpg city and 35 freeway couldnt hurt for racing. this car the 325E looked good on paper vs other ITA cars then scca lowered the min weight by 200lbs i was very happy
 
Eric

Cheers to you for driving the car to the track, back when I started in 88 you would not have been alone. Part of the cost of racing is all the crap we bring to the track. Back in 1990 when I took my Sports Renault to the Runoff's I towed the thing on a single axel trailer with a 1.9L Mitsi Mighty Max truck...to Road Atlanta...stayed with frieinds, went to Graceland...all for less than 1000.00 after I got my tow money......except for the $1500 damage on the first lap (we only count what we want eh'). My only suggestion would be to get another 325e and a tow bar......100% of your parts needs at the track. We are racing the blue 04 Mygale FC come by and say hello.

By the way at 25mpg you should come out to Spokane and see how fast that little car will actually go!

Greg
 
mikecolangelo said:
Man, my rotors and pads last about two race weekends and I drive a CRX just like Colin. They last even less at Mission. :(

It's a good thing that Miata and CRX rotors go for about $25 each!
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Michael....you got to stay off the brakes dude! No seriously, what pads are you running. You are having to change those way too many times. I got almost a whole year on a set of Carbotech's and $15 rotors.
 
I never had any luck with Carbotechs... didn't last very long at all. I really like the Cobalt XR1 and XR2 but I hate dealing with Cobalt. You basically have to order your pads 12 weeks in advance.

I'm willing to spend money on towing and tow vehicle as I shortened a car in Portland once and wouldn't have been able to drive it home. So you definitely got me there Eric!
 
My 944 costs are probably about the same. 12-13 gals of 92oct in a weekend. Diesel truck for good mileage and I live 12 miles from PIR. Sleep in truck/trailer or at friend's house when on the road and we bring a cooler with food/drinks from home. Pads once a year and rotors every two years. With Toyos I used a set per year at $700 total for maybe 8 weekends.

My tire budget, and it appears my gas budget, are going up this year. Some parts like later 944 rotors and clutch are probably a bit more than some other cars but the labor is all me.
 
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Just don't figure it out as detailed as my boss does... He's figured out that our costs over an average season figures down to $245/MILE.. Yes Mile!! And we run an average of 200 to 300 miles per race weekend....
 
Bill Bonsell said:
Michael....you got to stay off the brakes dude! No seriously, what pads are you running. You are having to change those way too many times. I got almost a whole year on a set of Carbotech's and $15 rotors.
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I run NAPA rotors (the $25 OEM-equivalent blanks) and Hawk Blues pads up front. I have drum brakes in the rear and those pads never seem to wear much.

Colin and Rick (both fast CRX drivers) tell me I should run Cobalts. So, Colin, maybe we should put in a group buy for the Cobalts? I have enough Hawk Blues to last 12 weeks. ;)

Also, Bill, the Miatas have better stock brakes than the EF Hondas (CRXes & Civics). I think the stock CRX brakes are just a bit undersized for racing.
 
Colin started a great topic, especially during this economy.

What about tow vehicle? My tow vehicle is a 2004 F-150 4x4 with the 5.4L motor. It's tow rating is 7800 lbs. This is way more than what I really need not only for towing but for everything else I use my truck for. My race car (CRX) and open trailer combined weigh about 3600 lbs. I have approximately 400 lbs of gear in the bed of the truck.

If I were to buy a truck to replace this one, I think I could easily get by with a smaller (read: more fuel effiicent truck) that has a tow-rating of 5000 lbs. Sure, I won't have as much tow capacity margin and not a whole lot of room for growth for, say, a future heavier race car, but I tend to prefer small, light cars so this might not be an issue. I do like having a 4x4 and have used that capability more than I expected. So maybe I'll get something like a used Toyota Tacoma 4x4 for the next tow vehicle? But I'd have to do some research to see how these trucks hold up to towing 4000-4500 on a semi-regular basis. Transmission repair isn't cheap!
 
@Bluevee33.
I'm not sure I get your math. $245.00 per mile and 200-300 miles adds up to $49,000.00-$73,500.00 a weekend. If that is true, racing with this group is out of my league. I'm guessing you mean $2.45 @ mile.
From my experience, going the car rental route the cost for a single race weekend runs around $1,400.00 in town (Seattle) and $1,800.00 out of town (Spokane, Portland), exclusive of any damage to the car by the driver. This includes car rental, hauling, entry fee, hotel, travel, and food. Additional race class entry fees and multiple races per weekend add $1,150.00-$1,300.00 to the cost. A rental driver does not pay for fuel, tires, typical wear and tear.
 
Michael Maros said:
@Bluevee33.
I'm not sure I get your math. $245.00 per mile and 200-300 miles adds up to $49,000.00-$73,500.00 a weekend. If that is true, racing with this group is out of my league. I'm guessing you mean $2.45 @ mile.
From my experience, going the car rental route the cost for a single race weekend runs around $1,400.00 in town (Seattle) and $1,800.00 out of town (Spokane, Portland), exclusive of any damage to the car by the driver. This includes car rental, hauling, entry fee, hotel, travel, and food. Additional race class entry fees and multiple races per weekend add $1,150.00-$1,300.00 to the cost. A rental driver does not pay for fuel, tires, typical wear and tear.
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IIRC BlueVee works for a pro race team in GrandAm. Different league for sure.

I bank on $500+ per track hour, depending on distance to tracks. That is just operational and doesn't include any wear or tear etc. My car is really easy on brakes and tires, but C12 is a very expensive way to feed your motor. My car does like eating diffs though :)

My tow vehicle is a Ford Excursion V10 (also thirsty) but for the purchase price and trouble free miles it works out pretty decent. Considering the price on a diesel was $10,000 more I figured the cost benefit would come in year 11 given my annual mileage.

Life would be a lot easier if I didn't have a truck, enclosed trailer and could simply transit my car to the track.
 
Michael Maros said:
@Bluevee33.
I'm not sure I get your math. $245.00 per mile and 200-300 miles adds up to $49,000.00-$73,500.00 a weekend. If that is true, racing with this group is out of my league. I'm guessing you mean $2.45 @ mile.
From my experience, going the car rental route the cost for a single race weekend runs around $1,400.00 in town (Seattle) and $1,800.00 out of town (Spokane, Portland), exclusive of any damage to the car by the driver. This includes car rental, hauling, entry fee, hotel, travel, and food. Additional race class entry fees and multiple races per weekend add $1,150.00-$1,300.00 to the cost. A rental driver does not pay for fuel, tires, typical wear and tear.
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I'm serious when I say $245/mile.... We actually run a Trans Am Series team... We average $55k a weekend from the time we drive out of the shop till the time we drive back into the shop...

Fuel in the truck from the shop to Sebring/Homestead and back in Jan. was $2500 alone, 3+ sets of new tires at $1500/set per weekend, 55+ Gals of Sunoco fuel at $10/gal per weekend, new set of rotors and 2 sets of pads a weekend at over $3000. Food, Hotels, Flights, Rental cars, Pro race entry fee's, Wages for 2 mechanics, 1 truck driver, 1 team manager, and the crew chief's pay... It's easy to spend $50k a race weekend.
 
mikecolangelo said:
I run NAPA rotors (the $25 OEM-equivalent blanks) and Hawk Blues pads up front. I have drum brakes in the rear and those pads never seem to wear much.

Colin and Rick (both fast CRX drivers) tell me I should run Cobalts. So, Colin, maybe we should put in a group buy for the Cobalts? I have enough Hawk Blues to last 12 weeks. ;)

Also, Bill, the Miatas have better stock brakes than the EF Hondas (CRXes & Civics). I think the stock CRX brakes are just a bit undersized for racing.
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Mike....
I'm actually switching over to Hawks this year. Think I might prefer their higher initial bite though I know they are harder on rotors than the Carbotechs. I am sure my drive to faster lap times has a lot to do with entry speed which has a lot to do with braking. Will see how it goes. I seem to average about $600-700 a weekend give or take depending upon where I am racing. That covers consumables but not the big stuff - motor, clutch, etc. My towing vehicles get lousy gas mileage.
 
Bluevee33 said:
I'm serious when I say $245/mile.... We actually run a Trans Am Series team... We average $55k a weekend from the time we drive out of the shop till the time we drive back into the shop...

Fuel in the truck from the shop to Sebring/Homestead and back in Jan. was $2500 alone, 3+ sets of new tires at $1500/set per weekend, 55+ Gals of Sunoco fuel at $10/gal per weekend, new set of rotors and 2 sets of pads a weekend at over $3000. Food, Hotels, Flights, Rental cars, Pro race entry fee's, Wages for 2 mechanics, 1 truck driver, 1 team manager, and the crew chief's pay... It's easy to spend $50k a race weekend.
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That's actually not that bad, all things considered.

If money was no object you could easily spend $10-$20K per race weekend if you had to facilitate a full effort to bring a team out for a race weekend. Heck I know some privateers that spend close to that without all the people :)
 
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