Track access for some groups at Pacific Raceways

P

p_whitworth

Active member
Attached below is the text of an e-mail I sent to the Conference Executive officers and the Race Chair of IRDC regarding the scheduling at the May 11/12 race at Pacific Raceways. I have received a courteous and considered reply from Jason Vein but I am posting it here for the rest of Conference to read and consider. I am confident about posting it because only those of us who live on Vancouver Island are prepared to pay the ferry fares so I do not fear torch-lit mobs on my front lawn. Besides, I've recently moved so I may be more of a challenge to find.

To One and All,



It is obvious that the amendments to Competition Regulation 703.C.1 is now allowing Race Chairs to discriminate against some long standing groups and classes in Conference and I am extremely disappointed.



Since the rule as it now reads requires the race organizer to give only one qualifying session to each group, there is now the realization that a lot of time has been freed up in the schedule to allow additional time to be granted to groups more preferred by the organizers.



Specifically I refer to the preference being given to all classes of cars EXCEPT those in Groups 3 and 6 at the race scheduled for May 11 and 12. Each of the classes in Groups 3 & 6 get one 20 minute track session on Saturday, one 20 minute session on Sunday morning and then the 30 minute race on Sunday afternoon. The cars in the special race, called the Mini Enduro get this time and ADDITIONALLY a 20 minute session on Saturday afternoon and a 1 hour race as well. The race is open only to the cars already entered in Race Groups 1,2,4,and 5. The Groups 3 and 6 cars need not apply.



The Group 3 and 6 cars are paying $4.07/minute for their track time but the Groups 1,2,4,&5 cars are paying only $2.90/minute if they are running the Mini Enduro. There used to be language in the Competition Regulations that guided the Race Chair to ensure that all entrants had equal access to the track and there is still the language in Competition Regulation 703 F that states that special races shall not interrupt the continuity of the ICSCC championship race program.



The entries in groups 3 & 6 may not be the largest at this point in Conference’s history but our money spends just as well as the other cars in the other classes. At this point in my racing career, I do not have the energy and resources to attend every race in pursuit of a class championship so I can select the races I wish to attend. I will therefore save my racing budget to spend it at the race event following the May 11-12 weekend where I will at least be treated with equality and fairness.



Paul Whitworth,

Group 6 No. 54.
 
Paul...
I came very close to hitting the send button on an email I had composed to Jason pretty much on the same subject. But, figured I'd wait to see if anyone else had similar thoughts. While your argument about reduced track time is right on, this lack of track time affects everyone not choosing to enter the 1 hour enduro for the additional $150. I usually run group 2 and do not double enter though I have run the Japanese challenge race at Pacific in the past several years. But, that race was only 30 minutes long and did not take away track time from those not entering. I have also done the test and tunes on Friday, but we should not have to enter either the T&T or the mini enduro to get a decent amount of track time for the 2 day weekend.

When the Pacific schedule came out with the mini enduro, I immediately saw the absence of the Saturday am practice session, so that the total track time for a single entry, regardless of run group, had dropped to 70 minutes for the entire weekend. Very low IMO especially for those traveling from outside the Seattle metro area. I have read many posts over the past 3 years encouraging more track time without necessarily having to double enter or run a "special" race. Those of us who are budget racers who have to pick and choose which events to enter, will tend to gravitate to those events offering the most bang for the buck. The upcoming NASA event at Pacific on the 4th and 5th, offer 140 minutes of track time for only $299. Pretty appealing if you don't mind dealing with some of the road blocks NASA puts up.

I know Pacific Raceways has issues with hours of operation, and therefore I don't believe Pacific is the venue to hold these special extended races if it takes track time away from those single entry racers. Now, The Ridge I would imagine would have no problem scheduling a 1 hours special race while still giving normal track time to everyone else. 90 minutes should be the absolute minimum track time for everyone regardless of run group. I hope others jump in here and continue the discussion as I think your point is valid.
 
I have to admit that in my first year away from the BOard this snuck in umder my radar - this post was the first time my attention had been drawn to this.

It is really two problems Paul - one that I agree with you on, and another that I probably don't.

1) If we are taking the traditionally scheduled practice away on Saturday morning with no corresponding reduction in price to the racers so we can create an opportunity for another entry that we charge for then I guess I have a real problem with that. We have had challenges with the more restrictive hours available at Pacific Raceways for years but cutting Saturday track time for single entry cars from a total of 35 minutes in two sessions in 2012 to a single 20 minute session in 2013 is certainly not a good thing for anyone. Offering to combine all of the removed practice sessions into a special race group and sell it back for an additional $150 entry even to those who qualify is simply a price increase. On that I think we agree.

2) Extending that to claim discrimination against the open wheel groups is another matter altogether. It's best to not start assigning dollar values to track time becasue those quickly become unflattering to those same groups. In a quote famously (and perhaps erroneously) attributed to Mark Twain "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." If we extend a little statistical comparison the 2012 Military Salute Grand Prix you find that when including all of the practice, qualifying, and racing time for the various groups some other statistics emerge.

Group 1 - Had 24.1% of the paid entries and recieved 14.8% of the total hot track time.
Group 2 - Had 19.0% of the paid entries and recieved 14.8% of the total hot track time
Group 3 - Had 5.9% of the paid entries and recieved 14.8% of the total hot track time
Group 4 - Had 14.4% of the paid entries and recieved 14.8% of the total hot track time
Group 5 - Had 20.9% of the paid entries and recieved 14.8% of the total hot track time
Group 6 - Had 11.8% of the paid entries and recieved 14.8% of the total hot track time
NCW - Had 11.8% of the paid entries and recieved 11.3% of the total hot track time

(Basis for this set of statistics - 153 entries includes anyone who set a time in qualifying because at that point we have the right to cash their check or run their credit card. 575 total hot track minutes for the week-end includes 6 senior race groups at 15 practice + 20 sat qualify + 20 sun qualify + 30 sun race = 85 minutes per group plus NCW 15 practice + 20 "qualify" + 30 race. Way too much work for me to track how many of the above entries are second and third at reduced price. NOW counted in OW senior groups.)

Interpret them any way you like, (and believe me, there are way to make them say whatever you want) but the entry levels in Groups 1,2, and 5 pay the bills that make race weekends possible without increased entry cost.

I know that to the Open Wheel Groups it sometimes seems like the Closed Wheel Groups are in opposition to you. Nothing could be further from the truth - we really want to see the OW Groups strengthen and contribute to entry revenue that helps keep racing possible in the face of rising costs and competition for racing venues. I've frequently heard that "they" are trying to take something away from OW drivers. Try looking at it another way - we are selling what can only be described as some reasonably expensive opportunities to participate in motorsports. Lets face it, this ISN'T a cheap hobby - you can play a lot of golf for what it takes to run the most "affordable" race car. The clubs are putting nicely wrapped packages of racing opportunities on their shelves that they paid a lot to prepare for race consumers. If at the end of the weekend all of the nice packages of "Group 1" have been purchased and consumed but there are a lot of "Group 3" still sitting there that spoil and are useless on Monday - any wise merchant is going to start stocking more "Group 1" and less "Group 3". Simple economics. As has been said exhaustively for at least the last five years we need to get the underattended Goups to up their consumption of the product or we can't afford to keep making it and putting it on the shelf.

No insults meant to ANYBODY. Obviously this is a problem we would ALL like to be able to fix so a positive dialogue is certainly required.
 
As this discussion unfolds, might anyone be aware of additional races that will be reducing regular track time to accommodate special races?
 
There are very specific reasons that the schedule for this specific event came to be what it is, and it's got nothing to do with any value proposition weighing any group or type of car against another.

Please do not take this one schedule as an indicator of a new paradigm, it is simply a product of some behind the scenes issues that drove a change to a prior format that most would consider "traditional".

It may take some time, and some good feedback from racers for the clubs to get to where we all collectively think we need to be.

One thing I am certain of, having been around a bit, Conference provides the best racing experience, for the most people, bar none.
 
With the group 5 qualifying sessions starting at 9:00 am will there be a change to the "no starting of any race engines prior to 9:00 am" rule?

Scott McDonald
#371
 
I don't have an official answer, but my understanding is that it is a track rule that race engines cant start before 900 AM. It is probably an error in the schedule that the first session out is 900 AM. In the past its always been 905.
 
Pacific Raceway has ALWAYS had a NO ENGINE START rule before 9:00 AM for many years. It's part of their (the tracks) noise abatement agreement with the County. Just look outside the fence behind the Paddock area and you'll understand. If you lived in one of those houses would you want race engines turning over at 8:00 AM every weekend morning? I think NOT!

Unless you have a fully muffled car all you can do is click it over at 9:00AM then idle it down to the grid as quickly as possible. The grid workers are fully aware of the rule and know cars will be arriving late. As this has a direct impact on Pacific's ability to continue to function as a race track, we ALL try to follow the rule 'pretty closely'.
 
Last edited:
Thread has been hijacked a bit dealiing with the 9:00 am start. Anyone want to continue discussing Paul's original post dealing with the reduction of track time for all unless you enter the mini endurance race. Eliminating the Saturday am practice session for everyone is a big deal IMO...any reduction of track time without a concurrent reduction in entry fee, should be discouraged. More track time for all should be the goal.
 
Here is the deal folks - after talking to several people involved, everyone knows this is a mess. At this point we have no recourse but to follow the posted schedule - it's not even an option to change it.

The toughest job in our club is Race Chair and we have a brand new one. We also have a whole lot of new Officers and Board members. These are the people who volunteer tons of time and effort so the rest of us can race - but you've heard me sing that song until I'm guessing you are sick of it. This schedule is the result of some things that we haven't talked about that came up unexpectedly and some ides that sounded good initially but proved quite a problem in execution.

Suffice to say that IRDC is sorry for the controversy and any negative feelings that you may be experiencing as a result. A greatly revised schedule for our next race will likely result with changes that not only eliminate the unpopular part of this races changes but actually improves on the traditional schedule.

Remember, we are the same people who have always made every effort to put on popular and welcoming events in the past and we are asking you to bear with us through this one difficult situation. If you can see your way clear - please support this race in spite of it's warts and we will continue to make every effort to improve our events in the future.

Conference and IRDC are still the best motorsports opportunities in the Northwest and we try really hard to keep it that way. Remember, you as racers aren't customers per se - you are friends, participants, and members of the clubs that are responsible for making these events happen. Occasionally those that volunteer to do more than just show up to race make some decisions that are unpopular with some of those who participate. Keep helping to make each event better and keep supporting the races becasue in a very real sense, they belong to you.
 
Why would I want to even come out on Saturday? I not be racing. If it is more important to IRDC to have a special race than serve the regular racers count me out.

Carl Clinton
American Sedan # 6
Group 4 only
 
Edit: Post edited as I figured Rick said it all well enough.


- - - Updated - - -

Carl C said:
Why would I want to even come out on Saturday? I not be racing. If it is more important to IRDC to have a special race than serve the regular racers count me out.

Carl Clinton
American Sedan # 6
Group 4 only
Click to expand...


So Carl is it safe to say you and I have a similar view point?

Let's race on Saturday and Sunday?
 
Last edited:
I applaud the various ICSCC clubs for trying new things. Some ideas will work, some will work with tweaks, some won't work. But you won't know until you try.

NASA, who really run their ship like a business (because it is), shows how much they value the open wheel crowd by offering no competition classes or track time to open wheel racing (except for Legends it appears). I see NASA will be at Pacific Raceways this weekend.
 
Carl, Colin,

Not exactly sure where the disconnect is on this.

Unlike the "traditional format", this experimental format does provide racing on Saturday. It's the one hour race, that any closed wheel car is eligible and welcome to run.

There is a 20 minute qualifying session for the race, plus a 60 minute race, on Saturday, for the price of a second entry at $150, for a total of 80 minutes of track time that includes an hour long race.

Relative to the "traditional format" of 15/20/30 = 65 minutes, it is a superior value.
 
Last edited:
Damnit Randy, how dare you temp me with your logic!

Those 1 hour races are really fun but I was referencing the typical single-race-weekend format, sans special races. Some times the Special races are only special for some cars: German, Japanese, or door-bangers.
 
I'm with you Randy, but for the sake of argument the "traditional" is typically no special race on our first week-end and at least for last year 15 practice+20 sat qualify +20 sun qualify+30 race per entry equalling 85 minutes. At times in years past the Saturday morning practice has been as short as 8 minutes and totalled at 8+15+20+30=72 minutes per entry.

I also endorse the idea of anyone welcoming in an open wheel driver into an enduro car that they might want to run but am realistic about the regular concerns and risks taken by putting ANYONE else in your car and of course very few are willing to do it for free ....

I guess I have to add in response to the earlier statement:

"If it is more important to IRDC to have a special race than serve the regular racers count me out."

While I understand the very nature of the rules of the special race exclude a portion of our drivers and I don't have good feelings about that, I can also state that after looking at the entry list for the enduro they are absolutely some of our MOST regular racers. I'd like to see it done a little differently in the future, but those already entered in the mini enduro are guys who I see on the entry list the most often at all venues throughout Conference.

They are not only "regular racers" - they also "race regularly". I've said that I feel for those who somehow feel disenfranchised by this but on the other hand, it's hard to be too down on clubs that cater to those drivers who are most likely to pay entry fees and come to race.
 
"Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."

~Lewis Carroll

Motorsport is fun and grand. But this is business, you understand.

I was happy to see some good OW fields at PIR last weekend. Keep 'em comin'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top