The Real Reason for the Faux Races on Saturday

p_whitworth

Active member
I have had the occasion over that past few weeks to discuss with certain officials the circumstances of the disqualification I received at the Seattle June 14-15 2014 Race at Pacific Raceways. I had entered the race at short notice because my wife had travelled, also on short notice, to Ottawa to be with a dying sister. I did not read the schedule in some detail until Saturday after the first track session because I was dealing with a leaking fuel pump. I read that it was billed as a “Qualifying Race”. Inquiries informed me that it was actually a qualifying session just like always, but some competitors want to run it like a race. I did go out and set a qualifying time and pulled back into my paddock space as I usually do. After seeing and taking a copy of the results showing my time, I was dismayed to see a subsequent copy that listed me “Disqualified” and my times nullified for not having gone over the scales. If you knew just how much my car and myself are over the minimum you would not question my not having to weigh each and every time I come off the track. Discussing this with the stewards I made my case that: a) it was not a Championship Race, b) no points or even trophies were awarded. It was billed as a qualifying session, what was the problem? All to no avail. I have been told that I really wasn’t disqualified, I just lost my times and besides, I was able to go out the next day and get a time back. This is like saying you’re not really dead, just terminally inconvenienced. If it’s so good to time in the next day, let’s get rid of all the qualifying until we reach the last one before the race.

Seems fair to me.

I have since become aware of the REAL reason for turning Saturday qualifying into Saturday racing. It seems those enrolled in the Toyo Tire contingency program want to have more race results to turn in and get more contingency money. This was given to me anecdotally but that is what I derived from the conversation.

So, if this is true, then all of Conference is to be messed about so a favoured few can scam Toyo Tires out of more contingency money than they are entitled to. There is a reasonable probability that Toyo calculates its contingency payouts on a per week-end basis. The Conference I used to know and love would never have been party to such a sleazy maneuver like this and most certainly NOT have shown such favouritism to one class or group over all others. I have a real race car and so I don’t’ use Toyo Tires. What do I get out of all this? Is the Toyo Tire clique going to donate their extra money to the worker fund or into a pool to be shared with all the other Conference racers who are providing them with this double dipping at the trough?

To those who now think it is increasing track time, think again. If you turn Saturday morning into a qualifying session and run a race on Saturday afternoon, then how long will it be until the organizing clubs, with an eye on their week-end expenses, decide they can run the entire race in one day? The outlying clubs have already had to do it as a means of drawing entries with two or even three races on the week-end. The usual complaint of those running the World Championship of Centralia (It’s mid-way between Seattle and Portland) have always decried that those races put too much importance on reliability. Well, reliability may become the deciding factor if all the clubs decide to cut expenses almost in half and cut the practice and qualifying sessions in half.

Just think, using a proposed format of 2 two day and 1 one day weekends, and the two clubs that already hold one three day weekend each, the Conference schedule can be run off in 8 weekends.

How’s that for more track time?

Stay tuned for Part 2.
 
I've argued for the past year or so that we only need one qualifying session. Practice Saturday morning. Qualify Saturday afternoon for Sunday morning race. Race Sunday morning that sets the grid for the Championship race that is Sunday afternoon.

However, despite being the only sanctioning body that does two qualifying sessions I have repeatedly been shot down for the reason that folks need a Sunday morning qualifying just in case they can't make it on Saturday or can only do a partial day. Seems this rule came into effect well for you in this instance so the arguments presented to me are sound.

I believe we are all becoming familiar with IRDC's decision to race on Saturday afternoon. There was an overwhelming show of hands when polled whether folks wanted this to happen, regardless of their use of Toyo, or not when introduced a couple of years ago. They are usually billed as "Non Points Races" and the first session of the day on Saturday (as was the case with this race in June) is the official qualifying session No.1. Seems like you've been treated poorly on your qualifying. They aren't qualifying races, none of us report to scales and none of us (that I'm aware of but your scenario here, that really isn't fair to you) have been penalized for it. I think you've been the victim of a mistake.

As far as Toyo contingency goes, I think this is purely coincidental. There are two classes, as far as I know, with a contingency for Toyo. PRO3 and SPEC E46. SE46 locked theirs two weeks ago leaving just PRO3 in your statement. I honestly don't know if PRO3 actually pays out on the non-championship races and Lance Richert (or someone who knows in that group) can comment.

On the matter of fees, we've seen races where PRO3 drivers have made up 50% to 60% of all entry fees for an ICSCC weekend (incl. EIP for their testing and Group 8 enduro). On an average weekend it's typically a third of all entries and now SE46 grows in strength we could see that percentage increase for Toyo sponsored classes. I would argue that many of our race weekends can happen thanks to the depth of classes like PRO3. If there is a small payout from Toyo to keep incentivizing these folks to attend, I wouldn't argue that it's a clique and bad for conference but I would cheer it. I would also cheer the fact that classes like PRO3 and SE46 have individuals like Lance Richert and Dan Rogers who are pushing their classes further with contingencies and sponsors to grow their series participation.

I think we should have a conversation about these qualifying races. I, personally, am not a fan of them on Saturday but also not a fan of two qualifying sessions. We can make a recommendation to the board this fall. Perhaps we should all put forward our thoughts.

Under no circumstances, however, do I believe the current situation is created by contingencies nor should it be a factor going forward. We should also not look at contingencies as being bad for our sport but good and healthy.

I feel for you and the ruling you got on your qualifying but there is no conspiracy here. If a Toyo payout does happen, it's a cherry on top of the cake of more racing.

James
 
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Hi Paul,

Sorry you feel so negatively about things, that's counter to what we are trying to achieve.

I'm thinking much of this is down to the fact that you are drawing conclusions from an awful lot of misinformation, assuming facts not in evidence, and presuming a lot of self service that's not present.

There is NO way we at IRDC would have ever considered a different format to satisfy some self serving contingency. Frankly, my ass is a bit chapped that you would give this hypothetical any traction. Whomever gave you that impression is grossly misinformed or has some other motivation. It's too bad "they" aren't motivated to actually ask those who did the work to figure out how to put the schedule together to answer the call for "more racing", what the basis is, but then I guess it is much easier to stir **** that to actually contribute materially in a positive way.

One of the themes driving IRDC's format change was the desire to provide an opportunity to race to people that aren't able to race on Sundays, because their faith precludes this, or for whatever practical reason.

To your point about the clubs in the core acting in their own interests to the detriment of the outlying clubs, it's unfortunate this perception exists. Not sure what to say except that's not been my experience. We (IRDC) take great care in our discussions about race formats, scheduling, and so on, to ensure the vitality of ALL of the clubs of Conference.

I'd be happy to have a phone conversation with you to discuss everything you have concerns about, including whatever issues you had planned to address in your part 2. Please do call back if I don't pick up right away, it's probably just that I'm busy working on my "real race car" too.
 
The next person who refers to the IRDC "non-points race" as a "qualifying race", I'm taking their beer away.. just look at the mess you caused!

With the current IRDC format, the times you set in the non-points race do not count toward your grid spot for the sunday points race, therefore, by definition it is not a qualifying race, it's a "fun race". The saturday morning qualy and the sunday morning qualy do. I agree with James, I think you've not been wronged by the format so much as you've been wronged by a mistake; part not understanding the format and part by the person issuing a DQ for "fake race".

The NP-Race quite literally is "practice". The old format: Practice-qual-qual-race. All that took place was to switch the practice-qual to be qual-practice and rename the "practice" to "non-points race". Therefore your practice session is a "practice race".

The conspiracy theory thing is really weird.
 
The Saturday non-points/non-qualifying/non-disqualificational race is too hard to say. Call it a 'Club' race and apply the bragging points (position/lap times) as you will.

My concerns are only in regards to the inevitable 'race' attitudes that are being applied, regardless of points, and how that affects the odds of catastrophic failure each group out (even in practice). Who's gonna make it to the Sunday qualifying session? And how much track clean-up is necessary to maintain some semblance of a schedule so everybody gets their time on track inside of the facility's allotment for noise and/or drags?

The next IRDC event is at Pacific and I don't want to be responding to so many unnecessary wall hits, car-car, and roll-overs. That just takes all the fun out, and brings everybody down.

Thank you for your participation.
 
Here comes part two.

I know, just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

A couple thoughts about Saturday races and lost practice. I'm not a millionair who can afford to race what is a luxury car that comes with an Electronic Control Module to give instant up-dates on mixture, timing (probably both ignition and valve). I ahve one ot the two or three classes that actually have carburetors with fixed jets. you remembers what carburetors are, they are the devices the Indy 500 named the last day of practice after. They're what NASCAR used to run with. When you first hit the track Saturday Morning checking that the jetting amd mixture are correct can make the difference between it running well and even a DNF. One year at Spokane, having run previously at Portland (Sea
 
Here comes part two. Sorry for the truncated first post, I was ejected from the Forum. I wonder why?

I know, just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

A couple thoughts about Saturday races and lost practice. I'm not a millionaire who can afford to race what is a luxury car that comes with an Electronic Control Module to give instant up-dates on mixture, timing (probably both ignition and valve). I have one of the two or three classes that actually have carburetors with fixed jets. you remembers what carburetors are, they are the devices the Indy 500 named the last day of practice after. They're what NASCAR used to run with. When you first hit the track Saturday Morning checking that the jetting amd mixture are correct can make the difference between it running well and even a DNF. One year at Spokane, having run previously at Portland (Sea Level) I went out Saturday morning at Spokane (200 Ft. Elev.) a couple of jet sizes short. On the first lap my Exhaust Gas Temperature went off the top of the scale. If this had been a qualifying session, it would have been good-bye qualifying time or good-bye valves and pistons.

There is another reason for Saturday practice. I was at the inaugural race at Port Orford (anybody remember where that is?) The first group out was an open wheel class whose name I will not reveal so as to not cause embarrassment. They all took off on the opening lap determined to win the race to the first turn so they would be easily notices once the scouts from F-1 showed up. In a group of four, 4th figured out braking the first three would be a snap, 3rd was certain second and first were sitting ducks, second new that 1st would be behind him at turns exit and 1st wasn't letting anybody by. He had won the race to pre-grid and it was all over but the champagne spraying. What they did not realize was that the track had lain unused for some time and a layer of sand had blown over it from the seashore that was only a hundred yards or so beyond the shrubbery lining the course. Once the wheels, suspension parts and fibreglas had finished raining down, the steward called a hlt and held a driver's meeting to explain the concept of "Practice".

Its easy to call "Practice superfluous when you drive only the same old courses in a car that is essentially self-adjusting and maintained by a fleet of professional mechanics but there are those of us who have to feel our way and be certain all is ready before we put the pedal down and not lift.

One more word about Saturday Races. I race in Group 6. It used to be two groups named co-incidentally Group 6 and Group 7. Group 6 was Formula Vee and formula 440, Group 7 contained Conference's Sports Racing cars. We had a nice little self-contained group of Sports Racers because we had tweaked the rules to give them fair displacement breaks and with the introduction of Super Production, they didn't have to bang bodywork with heavy duty Production based cars looking for an addition race. Both groups were well enough supported and all was well. Along came a spider...no, no, along came a member of one of the "Central Clubs" who came to the Executive Board complaining that they had a hard and fast curfew at their track and couldn't run seven races. Reluctantly all around, neither the E-board, Group 6 or Group 7 wanted to do it, they were combined. The entries for the new group have never recovered, and they continue to dwindle. you've just about lost me after 45 seasons.

The next year the "Central Club" announced that now that they had lots of track time, there would be a Special Race for a make specific class. To the eternal credit of the drivers in that class they all told the race organizer what he could do with the Special Race. But time marches on people have selective memories and its all about my track time and Devil take the hindmost.

Enough said, or shall I prepare Part Three?
 
My 2 cents worth: The practice race/ non points race is fine with me as I can use is as practice, t-n-t, or have some fun with a close competitor, it is my call. On a single race weekend I look forward to running 4 times for 1 group. For doubles and triples, we Q, then we race, no practice time or t-n-t time unless you do the seperate t-n-t day which if developing or trying new things makes sence anyway.

I appreciate that the volunteer club leaders are trying new things, change can be good, thanks guys for mixing it up. Next year we try something different?
 
I would still love to try out "real" race week-ends, where we practice/qualify on Saturday and then race on Sunday. 50-minute races on Sunday, ideally.
 
If you want more track time, more track sessions.......we need to combine run groups

When competing on a regular basis I was running two different classes. Two FIFTEEN MINUTE practice sessions on Saturday morning, two FIFTEEN MINUTE qualifying sessions on Saturday afternoon, another pair of FIFTEEN MINUTE qualifying sessions on Sunday morning, and two THIRTY MINUTE races to round out the weekend. (And, if memory serves, there was even a time when the qualifying sessions were TWENTY MINUTES LONG!)

It was a lot of trashing all day both days, and by the end of the second race Sunday afternoon I was ready for an ice cold beer or three.

What really made it better was when they started rotating the run groups. This was done to prevent the last group of the day on Sunday from always getting their races cut short to 10 or 15 minutes (Paul will remember this . . . . . . . since it was his race group that kept getting the short end of the stick).

I'm with Paul regarding the "race" on Saturday. There are many reasons why having two qualifying sessions makes sense.

What if it rains on Sunday morning, yet the weather clears for the race? There are cars that will always get better lap times in the wet than the ones which excel in the dry. Why would I want a group of (slower) cars out in front of me at the start of a dry race?

Or, how about this? For whatever reason, I cannot make it out for the Sunday morning qualifying session. If I was not allowed to set qualifying times on Saturday afternoon then I would be forced to start a the back of the grid.

Behind a bunch of slower classed cars.

One of the themes driving IRDC's format change was the desire to provide an opportunity to race to people that aren't able to race on Sundays, because their faith precludes this, or for whatever practical reason.

So if this is being done to accommodate those who have theological reasons for not racing on Sunday, then why does the race on Saturday not count as a Championship race? If it were I requesting this accommodation, it would be so I could have a fair shot at winning a championship.
 
Also your concern regarding track time and number of sessions for single entries is well founded. There are only so many track sessions possible in a day. i have been working through a number of scenarios to address more sessions and track time for single entries while preserving our ability to offer double entries and special races.

Reducing from 7/8 run groups to 5/6 run groups at smaller venues such as Spokane and ORP makes good sense as current or reduced run groups come no where near track limits.
 
Yes you are paranoid Paul, and yes, they are out to get you! I have never cared for these special races that take track time away from the rest of us, but it produces revenue and the clubs like that, so whatta ya gonna do? I started lobbying for more racing and less qualifying when I was on the E-board around 2000, and I loved seeing the double and triple race week-ends that finally started a few years back, but let's either qualify or race on Saturday, and if it is a race, then award points.
I agree that one qualifying on Saturday followed by 2 20 minute races on Sunday would be great, but the resistance to that idea still holds fast for whatever reason. Some drivers have told me they need that second qual to dial in their car, but it has been years since I have seen a car enter the hot pits for discussion and/or adjustments, so are 2 of those sessions really necessary?
As Kenny said, from the viewpoint of the turn crews and response teams the unnecessary issue arising from overzealous Saturday driving causes those folks a lot of extra work and stress. We all need to remember that one of the main factors in making changes to our week-ends, (and shortening our seasons), was due to the sheer number of races our volunteers attend. We treat them very well because they deserve it, but they also work SCCA and Sovren, and some out of town events. A few of them have told me they often work 20 + race week-ends a season!
Okay Paul, put your tin foil hat back on and stay away from the windows...
 
One of the previous readers said he couldn't wait for part 3. Well here it is.

I didn't go into this earlier because it was the subject of an appeal to the E-board, but since that avenue has come to a dead end, there's nothing left to lose.

I had written previously about getting a championship rule (weighing after a race) applied to a non-championship race. Now it’s perfectly alright to ignore the championship rules if you are the "right" person.

I'm not.

At the ORP race on May 23, I was left with the less than perfect situation of bringing home a crippled car. My shift linkage proved defective and I could not change gears effectively. There was another issue that was my fault, I had installed the wrong gearbox. The one on the car at that race was geared for the wide-open track such as Pacific Raceways, Portland without the chicane, Spokane and even the Ridge. Running it at ORP was bog city but having spent a usurious ferry fare and towed for 9 hours, I was going to see it through for the finisher's points. During my race, because I couldn't use the gears or accelerate properly, my competition put a lap on me. As the race wound down, he suffered a mishap that I am thankful turned out much better than it could have, his left front spindle sheared off and he was left a DNF out in the in-field.

As I passed the scene of the second time I wondered if this would put me ahead of him. As I came to the start/finish line, I received the chequered flag. Oddly I couldn’t remember getting the Last Lap Board. I completed the cool down and went over the scales before I returned to my pit.

I waited until Driver Services confirmed that the results showed me to be the winner and I announced my withdrawal from the race the next day as my car was not fit to race further.

A coupe of weeks later my wife learned from one of the T.C. members, second hand, that the results had been reversed. It seems the Steward had convened the Competition Committee and it was decided to assign the win to my non-finishing competitor. When I asked how he could be the winner when he didn’t weigh as C.R. 714 requires, he replied that the wording that says, “where applicable and where possible” means that if you are DNF because your car is stranded out on the course, you don’t have to weigh because its too much of a “hardship”.

So last year I got dumped because I didn’t weigh when I didn’t need to and this year I get dumped because the person beating me didn’t have to weigh because he couldn’t.

I guess the rules get very stretchy if you have the Steward’s favour.

Remember when Conference was an organization you could be proud to belong to?
 
Don't care for your insinuation Paul.

The volunteer Stewards I know are all very principled gentlemen, doing their level best to be fair, using a committee approach when necessary to try to get it right. I was part of that committee discussion, and the names of the players never came up. Sorry you don't care for the outcome. Can't please everyone I guess.

For the record, I am a 25 year employee of a major urban public safety agency, and the level of professionalism I witness at each and every race event is the equal to this multi-million dollar entity. I am VERY proud of Conference.

Thank you.
 
Randy,

O-kay, I’ll see you and raise you.

This is my 47th season as a Conference Race License holder. I have never been protested, never been assigned a penalty, never found at fault in ANY on-track incident.

I was 30 years in a job that required “Secret” security clearance. I have served 4 terms as my club’s (V.M.S.C.) President, 2 terms as Race Chair and once as its non-race competition director.

From 1982 to 1998 I was the Executive Board Representative for my club and 2 or three years as its Contest Board Director. That last one is a bit uncertain because there were a couple of us spelling each other off. I served 3 terms as Conference President, in the last one I pretty much single handedly and without thanks, prevented the wholesale over charging and outright bilking of Conference by someone who was very well, although falsely, thought of by the organization’s members.

I’ve seen fire and I’ve seen rain, to quote the lyrics. If I think something is hinky, I think I have grounds. I’ve never experienced the circumstance where the results of a race were gone back over after they had been declared where there was no protest lodged (If there was, I was not informed of it). I have never been aware of a rule’s interpretation being reversed because it was “too much of a hardship” to hold to the long established interpretation.

I’m nearing the end of my racing involvement. Add my years of activity to what you think is my age (I’m older than I look) and you get the idea. Trophies and other hardware have very little impact on me any more. Its all just stuff my survivors will have to move out.

I JUST WANT THINGS TO BE DONE RIGHT AND FAIR. This has happened to me before. It stung just as much that time as it did this time.
 
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