ORP - Ken question

Richard Broadhead

Richard Broadhead

Flag & Com
NO, this is not a question of 'is the race on'.

Ken,

I was looking at the ORP web site and a quote....

"jersey barriers have been placed around the base of each elevated turn station' and there's a photo of one.

Question:
Are ALL of the turn stations elevated? Assuming a standard riser height of 12" on the ladder, it looks like the stations are 8 to 9 feet off the ground utilizing ladders to reach the platform. Hmmm... none but the fittest will ever get up there. And, cautious 'response' to cars will be needed to avoid broken legs and ankles.

Is the 'plan' to put in stairways or leave the ladders?

It also means the flags will be about 11 to 12 feet above the drivers heads and some lateral distance from the racing surface. Will they be in the drivers line of sight? Yes, I know we have 2 elevated stations at Seattle but they are really close to the track edge and the approaches are long/straight.

Track is looking really great. Hope we can make the Oct. race! :cool:

P.S.
I don't fear the height. But I'd be inclined to want to be on the ground and able to RUN!
 
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kerry_mcmurtrey said:
Parachutes! And that crossbar on the exit isn't going to make it quicker...
Click to expand...

It will be "quicker" if you make a misstep up there :eek:

I'd be inclined to make it a FULL enclosure with a latching doorway to avoid people stepping off it. Or, as asked, at least a stairway instead of ladders. That way it would be a tumble instead of a drop-splat!
 
The ORP turnstations

I was at the TC school today and spoke with Dan Wilkins and Cathy Frasier about the ORP event last weekend. They told me that new turnstations are not friendly to anyone but Adam. The ladders block part of the entrance to the platform, making it slow and difficult to get into the station. Hopefully the ORP folks took notes last weekend as they have at each event in their efforts to make sure that things out there work the way that they should. They are having an open house out there Aug. 29th. That would be a good chance to check things out live and in-person.
 
Okay, Rob. Sounds 'maybe' a little safer for the occupants once ensconced there. Some, kick plates around the open side might be nice too. Would prevent people from putting a shoe down over the edge.

What would the 'plan' be? Have one person stay below to respond if needed?

If you made the ladders out of steel with round hand rails, I'd just pretend I was back aboard ship, slide down with hands and not use the risers - QUICK decent :) Wait, I'm probably too old to do that any more.

Aug 29.. Hmmm sounds interesting. Any caravans leaving from the Seattle area?
 
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I too, took a look a the turn station shown on the website.

It looked just a tad spindly. What are the actual stations supported on? (and please don't say 2x4's or 4x4's) There doesn't seem to be any cross bracing for stability either.

I see there are guide wires at at least 2 of the corners, which could be another obstacle to trip you up.

I am not sure I want to be 4-8 feet off the ground, in the wind, given the current structure.

In and out of the tower, with just a body, looks to be very ummmm challenging never mind trying to get gear up there.

Sorry, but I wasn't too impressed with this one. Maybe the other ones are more skookum, and easier/safer in/out - up/down???

Was there any input asked for, from the people that are going to have to use these things, before they were built?
Or maybe these are just temporary to meet the requirements to hold the first race??
 
Lynn,

I just watched one of the in car video's on the ORP web site. The turn stations were not up when the video was shot.

However, now I understand the need for raised turn stations. With all of the elevation changes (especially entering/exiting corners), flaggers need to be "UP" to see the area of the track after the corner and still be in the line of site of approaching drivers on MANY corners. You can also see that in the turn station photo. Behind it, the racing surface drops away to the left and vanish's. If you weren't in the air, you couldn't see down there.

The concrete pads for the stations certainly look 'healthy'! Heap plenty thick for sure.

As track income permits, perhaps they'll build stairs which will increase the stability and make entrance and egress to the 'towers' easier.

Posts are anchored, guy wires will prevent sway, life is good. But, I think the designated 1st responder will still have to stay on the ground (assuming a 3 person staff at the tall stations).

It's just the beginning. So I'm sure they'll work with the club(s) to improve things.

P.S.
Coolers, et. al. left on the lower deck. Hmm, wonder if they have a bench up there?
 
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As a driver, I would say that all your concerns are valid and do not instill confidence in me.
ORP is a complicated track, and has some areas which will be worrisome under race conditions. I'd like to know that the safety response time is up to the challenge.
I would suggest that this discussion be taken to those who make the decisions for ORP.
 
Having students work on this project was a great idea and they probably did a good job given the info they were given, but......the question still stands, were any of the people that are going to have to make like Tarzan, consulted on the archived drawing's viability, not to mention pacticality?

I understand the reason behind the elevated stations given the track design and terrain, and for that fact alone, there should have been an awful lot of input from those that are directly affected.
(Yes, I know Turn 4 at PIR is problematic with the straight up ladder to the crow's nest sometimes as well, and it would be better to have a staircase)

Bodies in the house, bodies on the ground per station? (Bring on all them extra bodies that we know are buried somewhere.)

Communicators slightly(?) seperate from flaggers?..... we're gonna like yelling ALL weekend (oh wait I already mentioned Tarzan) over the noise of cars/wind.

I am trying to not sound negative, and probably not succeeding, and I truly am looking forward to the first race there, and here comes the inevitable but, it takes less time and money to do it right the first time. I work in manufacturing and production and the phrase "it's good enough for now" or "it'll do" or "we'll fix it later" never bodes well.

I understand the financial pie pieces available are never enough for this type of undertaking, and also realize that track/racing safety issues needed a large amount of those pieces, it's just that the turns are an important and vital part of those safety issues as well.

I am going to quit my rant now, until having experienced and worked with them under full race conditions, or until Kenny brings out his wooden spoon to stir my pot, so to speak.
 
Ken Killam said:
...... I was thinking about the tree house idea. Something like a large steel pipe for a trunk, mounted to re-inforced flanging sunk into the concrete pad with branches that cradle an encircling platform, say something in a gezebo style sectigonal, or such. Cone roof with 360 degree visibility and a low pitched roof. Stairway, with rails, reaching from the ground inward and up through the outer edge of the platform secured to the main trunk and two branches......
Click to expand...

Ken,
Have you applied for a "stumulus money' grant to pay for that? Or perhaps talked to the Gates Foundation for funding?

I'm guessing the students did a load bearing analysis of the basic structure and a wind shear analysis of the guy wire system before contruction. They are more then likely quite stable. Tarps, panduit straps and bungy cords will address some other issues (I always have good supply in the trunk for those nasty flagging days).

Just a question of getting up/down and seating in the tower.

(Tongue in cheek)
Will race rescue respond to calls from towers when the ladders blow over? Or, do occupants remain on station for the season? :)
 
I just noticed from the first picture that the entry/exit is on the "impact" side (look at the barriers). I don't think i would want to be 'bailing out' Into the source of concern. I'm chicken, i'd rather run/fly 'away'....
 
I suppose if we didn't have so many old farts on the corners, except Thomas that is, this 'stair climbing while waving a flag and screaming into the headset' woudn't even be an issue!
There has to be a sound reason behind the height and positioning of these elevated tree houses, right Kenny? Or did they give those students free rein with this project? Either way, I can't wait to see how Rimmer handles those steep stairs in her heels and white mini!
 
Wes,

As I mentioned above, looks like there is indeed a valid reason. Take one of the video laps on their web site. Turn stations/towers need to be high to facilitate a clear view over humps at the stations plus giving drivers a line of sight to the flaggers.
 
I understand the height necessity Rich, but not the enter/exit issue. Obviously you can't respond quickly to an incident from up there, so were they constructed without proper supervision as Kenny postulates? Is this just another issue that is already being handled by the appropriate party? Probably...
 
OMG Rick, thank you, I needed that.
My morning started with having two valves, under pressure, deciding not to play nice and me getting soaked. (luckily it was just water and not the booze that will be in it. oh yuck)
Your funny really helped, keep them coming. I now may make it to 10AM.
 
I liked the idea of a central tube supporting the "tree house". Take it a step further and the tube is big enough for an enclosed ladder to get up, and a fire pole to get down. Mount the tree house on a gimble bearing (like the tower cranes use) and have a tail on the front edge of the roof of the house and it always faces down wind. Now how's that for cool design ;)
And when those dust devils come up Lynn and Co get a free carny ride.
 
LOL,

Sounds like plan is to turn corner working in to an amusement park ride! That might draw some new people out. Next step would be to put an amplidyne drive on it with a joystick control in the tower. Then the workers could spin it all round based on wind direction and which direction the cars are orbiting.
 
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