E30 buyer question

B

badsmini

Well-known member
Hi all,

I'm in the market for an E30 to build into a PRO3 car. I've studied up on things and know the proper models/engine, etc for the class. Now that I'm shopping for a car I was hoping some of you can provide some information from your experiences on what specifically to look for when I find the 'right' car. Particularly what to look for regarding drivetrain, etc and what kind of checks I should run it through (compression, etc) before plunking down the money. Also, can you tell me what the proper identifier is for a car equiped with a LSD? Any info would be appreciated.

Regards,
Martin
 
There are enough existing Pro3's for sale that I would think that would be the easier/cheaper/"safer" way to go. No?
 
I haven't seen many on the market, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places? Also, I was looking forward to building my own "low budget" racer as I enjoy working on my own cars and while I'd love to rush out and get on the track, my plans are to build up some seat time while building up the car. I think there is a lot to be learned by building up a car and finding out how each change and enhancement impacts the performance and handling of the car. On the other hand, if there are some built cars (or partially built) out there for a reasonable price I'm open to that as well. Anybody?
 
I paid $2000 for my Pro3 starter that had a cage but no other race equipment and just added a $0 to get it PRO3 legal. You too can build one to your liking for about $2000 + 0 or $20,000. Mike Olsen said he built his for less than $10,000. And yes you can run your first season in a $8,000 car. You need to pay about $2500 for a starter car, $2500 for a cage (minimum) $1,000 for seat and harness, $500 for tires, $400 (minimum) for brakes, $50 plus wire for a kill switch, $25 for fire extinguisher or $500 for a system, $1500 - $4000 for springs and shocks, and the list goes on. So $8500 plus to run on a good street engine and sport springs and shocks for the first year or so. Or shop around and spend $12K for a built car. I too would love to build another but I know I have $45k in receipts somewhere (don't tell the missus) spent in my first few years. If you want to persue building a car there is no better support to be found than the PRO3 group. Get on our bulletin board and down load a bunch of information and don't be afraid to ask for help. We want more new cars and drivers!
Back to your original question - how do you buy a good E30? Look for the obvious, is it in good shape, no rust, minor dents, straight frame rails ahead of the shock column, front fender or hood damage is ok, but rear damage is hard to fix, interior is not important, glass is cheap, paint is only $600 for race quality, so look for:
Decent compression
No rod knock
Clean oil, look in filler cap for sludge
Clean smooth shifts
All body panels have a tag - fenders, hood, trunk lid, doors - if the VIN number shows and matches they are original - good sign the car has not been crashed
All 'is' models have limited slip - but a LS diff can be had for about $400 - there will be an "S" on the diff tag along side the ratio. You would like a 4:10 but many race on a 3.73.
Brake rotors cost about $70 each
You can rebuild the calipers for about $25 each
You should flush the brake system and put in good race fluid $30
You should replace the timing belt, water pump, idler, cam seal unless there is a recent tag. $300 and a day labor
You should replace all hoses $50
You should replace the front control arms as the lower ball joint is part of this and you don't want to crash as a result as the wheel can crush your foot. $360 / both sides
I would recommend if you find a potential car have a buyers inspection done at Strictly BMW, West Werks, TC Motorsports, Adair Racing in Spokane, or Lovett Motors as each of these are involved in PRO3 racing. It is $75 - $100 spent that can save you $1000s.
You want a 1987 - 1991 2 or 4 door sedan that has a tach that goes to 7,000 RPM ('i' motor with no cold start injector on the passenger side of the intake manifold and no 5000 RPM tach like the 'e' motor)
I hope this helps. See http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/pro3-racing/ and http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=39
Or give me a call - Greg PRO3#120
 
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Further E30 possibilites

Any E30 1985 to 1991 is legal for upgrade.
1986 and 1987 325 e cars are easy to upgrade with a wrecking yard motor with engine wiring harness, ECU, and tach. Also the clutch release bearing, and differential need to be replaced.
1985 and older 325 cars are all eta "e" motor cars but the wiring harness on the car side is different so a swap means re-wiring the car aft of the firewall too.
1987 and older 318 cars have rear drum brakes, smaller diffs, and are a lot work to make PRO3 legal - a kick to drive however as they are lighter on the front end.
Spec E30 race cars can be raced as is with our larger spec tire. These are NASA spec racers found in Cali and elsewhere. None available locally, and I would much prefer buying locally where I can get a good impartial inspection. There are some other suitable national organization race cars that would not take much to get to PRO3 std. too, but again out of our area.

Decade error corrected - thanks Mike! Geese, getting old and having cars in both decades makes it hard ;)
 
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Ummm, Greg, you may want to go back and edit your last post. You've got your decades all off-kilter...gotta watch these old guys! :tongue:

True, I built the Reaper for under $10g. But that was also not a competitive car when compared to the field. I then spent the better part of the following two seasons upgrading the car as I upgraded my driving. It worked out pretty good and allowed me to get a better understanding of how the new changes I made to the car effected performance.

If I were to do it again? I'd probably still build it rather than buy it (my own personal thoughts here because I so enjoyed the process!) and I would build it with the intent to make it a competitive car. If the car has all the right stuff, then there's no excuse except driver talent. It also makes race weekends more fun if you're not battling with old bushings or other old street parts failing on you.

Having said that, I would like to say that I've stopped spending money on the car...and so would my wife!

Like Greg stated, watch the tach. You DON'T want the 4,500 redline. It's too easy for someone to replace the trunk lid with an 'is' badge but it still be an eta. (I argued with a fella once that he didn't have an 'i' car but he swore up and down that it was becasue the badge said so! Never mind the entire back of the car was a different shade of white...)

DON'T bother with a car that has body damage. Okay, maybe one with a dented front fender, but be sure that's all. Your race budget will disapear with any required body work.

DON'T bother with a 318. I may get disagreements here, but there's so much you have to change out to become Pro3 legal that I don't think it's worth it.

DO run the last seven didgits of the VIN through www.realoem.com. That will give you some quick hostory on the car and the motor, provided the motor # matches the car #.

DO a compression check on the engine at least. It's very possible to run a full season (or more?) on a strong engine. I ran for two full seasons without a rebuild on an engine with 167,000 miles.

DO change the timing belt. If the seller says they did it, do it again. The parts are cheap and the failure of that belt is certain death for the engine. Ask anyone with e30 experience!

DO ask a lot of questions of the Pro3 group. You will get straight answers along with some good history on the e30 (not to mention a pretty good dose of sarcasm at times.)

DON'T just start removing things on the car without first reading the rules. And asking questions. And comparing to other cars.

Above all, prepare to have a good time. Enjoy the build; enjoy the comeraderie of the Pro3 group. All of our hoods are open for viewing.

Good luck!;)
 
mikeolsen said:
Having said that, I would like to say that I've stopped spending money on the car...and so would my wife!
Click to expand...
Key word "would" - welcome to racing :)
But more fun than golf, fishing or hunting for sure, and at my age a lot more fun than ..... I'll wait until you get here and you'll find out yourself :)
 
Hey guys. Thanks for all of the great information. While I pride myself in doing my homework before I dive into things it helps to get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. I've also been checking out the Spec E30 site, but realize their rules are a bit different from Pro3. It's good to hear feedback and suggestions from local racers like you. Funny you mention the 325 "i" issue. I was looking at a 325 down in Portland, it was an '88, and trying figure out what the heck as 325 was if it didin't have an "i" or "iS" designation. I thought they were all injected so what the heck? Turns out in '88 they dropped "e" designation, but it was still the "economy" model. Go figure. Anyway, great info and I appreciate the different viewpoints. I'm still leaning towards the build my own route for the reasons I mentioned...getting my hands dirty and learning the car has it's merits. Also while I'd like to be competitive out of the box, I know that's not realisitic even if I had a professionally built car. So I'll bring it up in due time and see what I can do with her. Thanks again! Hey, any opportunities you guys know of where I can get up close to some of the cars and what you are all up to would be appreciated. Let me know if there are any opportunities on the horizon (before the race season gets going full blown). Cheers! Martin
 
LOL...sorry. Just had to laugh Fred. When I saw your post and it was for a car sans engine and tranny I immediately had the image of you being Fred Flintstone and your friend with the car must be Barney Rubble! Sorry, just my twisted sense of humor (foot powered..get it?) LOL Seriously though, thanks for the tip. If you could PM me the contact infor that would be great or shoot me his e-mail.
 
Oh, Martin will fit in just fine around here! The funny thing about the Fred Flinstone comment is that Fred Wright makes a great Fred Flinstone for Halloween! lol funny there.

As for your experience with the '88, I think that might have been the "Super ETA" which was BMW's quick experiment of a fuel efficient car with more horsepower than the standard eta...didn't really catch on and existed for all of one model year.

Where are you located? Seattle? North? South? We've got peeps spread throughout the NW including Canada, Spokane, Portland, and all over Seattle.

We should get you hooked up on the yahoo site. Hit me up at rickshaw_racing at yahoo dot com
 
Ran across this car today. What do you think? Got a lot of service history and the top end was rebuilt recently.

$2,400 OBO - 1990 BMW 325i, 5 Speed Manual Transmission, 2 door coupe, New Upholstry in front, Sport Seats. Nearly all service records. Clutch is absolutely tight, tranny smooth, engine idles perfectly, runs smoothly, great power. The engine had a full valve rebuild (I think that's known as top end rebuild) with head gasket and timing belt just a few years ago. That record is present. I have 40 pages of service records from dating back to '97 from the original owner. There are many key services that have been performed and documented here, some that come to mind are the aforementioned engine rebuild work, also BMW dealer installed a NEW BMW steering rack. I don't have the stack right here at the computer, but there are alot of records. I had new rear shocks installed (Bilstein Sports) just a few weeks ago, record present on that. Struts are good (Bilstein sports) all springs are pretty recent, around 50k miles on them. Brakes are good but front discs are needing replacement. I have BOTH front rotors (discs) new in box, BMW original factory replacements ready to install. No fading, wobbling or noise, just the typical scoring on the existing rotors but overall the brakes work very well. The front seats (Recaro Sport seats) in this e30 are in excellent condition, having been professionaly redone certainly recently, but I don't see the svc. rec. for that. Mechanically the driver seat is pretty good and the front pass. seat very good. Dash is excellent, door interior panels excellent, rear interior excellent. No smokers, no pets. 253k miles overall on car, but the rebuild was just a few years ago. This car runs better than my '89 325is when it had only 43k miles on it. The car is Black, Black and 15" Alpina type rims in gunmetal. The current tires are Blizzaks and I will include a full set of Michelin all seasons, two of which are very good, the other two are pretty good, but not great. I also have an in tank fuel pump w/ low miles as a back up. This is a cool little car with just a few things needed to make it a really great e30. Oh, the car was originally purchased in Germany by a U.S. Armed Forces Officer. It was shipped to the U.S. - All records, shipping documents are present. (This car is not grey market and all instruments are identified in English).
 
Almost seems too good to rip into a Pro3 car. Decent price for the car as it is, but truthfully, you won't use most of what's identified in the ad. The newer motor and steering rack are big bonuses along with the spares. The seats are worth something as those can be fairly sought-after.
 
I figure if I can get him down to $2K and then sell off some of the good stuff that won't go for Pro3 I can do pretty well if it's in fact as represented. Time will tell of course. :) Stilln eed to find out if it has the option LSD or not. It sounds like that's a fairly inexpensive conversion though if I need to add it.
 
It may not be an LSD back there. Those were standard on the 'is' version and automatics. Not to worry. There are plenty of 3.73 LSD rear ends available (I have one for instance). With that unit, you can use the LSD carrier and make any ratio (as allowed in the rules) LSD if it isn't already.

Besides, it's a good idea to have that unit rebuilt (many of us have used Northwest Differentials in Kirkland for this), so it's not the end of the deal if the diffy is not LSD.
 
If it is a 2-door, then it should be a sport model with the limited slip. but coming from Germany maybe it's a base model. As Mike said, either way finding a limited slip LSD is easy. Honestly, I think you want to find a solid body without any big wrecks, then you are good to start your project. You'll sell off the interior for cash, etc.

Where are you and this car located? (Don't worry, we won't buy the car, ha ha)
 
mikeolsen said:
It may not be an LSD back there. Those were standard on the 'is' version and automatics. Not to worry. There are plenty of 3.73 LSD rear ends available (I have one for instance).
Click to expand...

I picked up a LSD (3.73) for $150, so they are pretty cheap and plentiful, as well. Works, too!

Dan (in Alaska too, Mike - sheesh!!!) :wink:
 
epsdan said:
I picked up a LSD (3.73) for $150, so they are pretty cheap and plentiful, as well. Works, too!

Dan (in Alaska too, Mike - sheesh!!!) :wink:
Click to expand...

I lumped you in with Canada! gfaw! (I can say that, having been from AK...)
 
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