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Thread: Is Electricity a Fuel?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Bend Oregon
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    The 24 Hours of Lemons has introduced an all-new fully electric category for their 2019 racing season. Officially called “The Lemons Electric Class Presented by AltThusiast,” the category is being touted as the first time that electric cars and internal-combustion cars are going to be racing within the same field.

    Besides the “5 1/2 Tons on Money” cash prize of 1 million nickels (approximately $50,000) up for grabs to the first electric team to win overall at a Lemons race, there are also a new set of rules—namely that the recharging of the car is done in the same area as refueling, the swapping of batteries is allowed, and that the powertrain systems and energy storage are excluded from the $500 cap.

    For those interested in the new category, the full Electric class rulebook can be found here:
    3.L FULL-EV REGS
    3.L.1 Talk to Lemons HQ in Advance. For your EV car to be eligible, you must confer with Lemons HQ before starting fabrication or filing a race registration.
    3.L.2 EVs Present Unique and Additional Risks. Full-EV vehicles may expose you and others–including track and rescue personnel–to unique, unexpected, and/or unusual dangers of fire, electrocution, poisoning, increased risk of illness, and other extremely bad things. EVs should only be built, maintained, repaired, and/or operated by those with sufficient expertise to recognize and avoid these and all other EV-related hazards.
    3.L.2 Pikes Peak is Smarter Than Us. All full-EV vehicles must meet all PPIHC safety rules for electric cars. See PPIHC 2018 Rule Book, effective 1 November 2017, section 126.
    3.L.2 Electric Drive Components Exempt.
    3.L.2.a All EV-drive-system chargers, batteries, motors, controllers, connectors, and cables do not count toward the $500 price limit. (To inquire about price exemptions for other EV drive-system components and almost certainly be rejected, contact Lemons HQ.)
    3.L.2.b All mechanical components adapted from ICE vehicles for your build (examples include motor mounts, transmissions, differentials, driveshafts, and suspension components) do count toward the $500 price limit.
    3.L.3 Win Five and a Half Tons of Money. The first full-EV racecar to win a Lemons endurance race outright will receive a purse of one million nickels. Which is also $50,000. Which is also five and a half tons of money. Which will also arrive at your shop in a dump truck.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Milwaukie
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    15
    The way I read the rule (1109) is that those cars that run on fuel, shall only run on gasoline or diesel or a blend of Gasoline and alcohol or racing gas. I do not see where it excludes the EV at all.
    Here is my argument. Electricity is the means of propulsion. That Electricity is produced by a means at the track by a generator. That generator could be powered by Diesel or Gasoline. Thus being the true means of propulsion of the vehicle. The batteries are nothing more then a storage device like a fuel tank. The fire they can produce are to be treated like any other BC rated fire. Granted a "disconnect" like any other race car should be mandated.

    I have thought many times of building a Diesel powered sports racer and running it in our enduro series. If Audi can do it why can't we?

  3. #23
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    Dec 2008
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    Tacoma, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Vavrosky View Post
    The way I read the rule (1109) is that those cars that run on fuel, shall only run on gasoline or diesel or a blend of Gasoline and alcohol or racing gas. I do not see where it excludes the EV at all.
    Here is my argument. Electricity is the means of propulsion. That Electricity is produced by a means at the track by a generator. That generator could be powered by Diesel or Gasoline. Thus being the true means of propulsion of the vehicle. The batteries are nothing more then a storage device like a fuel tank. The fire they can produce are to be treated like any other BC rated fire. Granted a "disconnect" like any other race car should be mandated.

    I have thought many times of building a Diesel powered sports racer and running it in our enduro series. If Audi can do it why can't we?
    Its not that you CAN NOT build a diesel powered race car, it has been done successfully before. It is that under our our rules you MAY NOT race it at Conference events. If you want that to change get to work writing an appropriate rule set, publicize and explain it to the membership over the course of the season, and get it voted in during rule change season for review by the E-board. Every time someone makes a noise about something they think they might want there isnt a room full of Conference elves who jump to preparing a well thought out plan for making someones daydreams a reality. If an idea is truly good it will inspire someone, or a group of someones, who are truly interested in making it happen to invest some effort making it happen. The volunteer personnel of Conference have their hands full living their own lives, earning a living, and keeping the organization alive and operating. There is absolutely no point in building a race car that is specifically prohibited from racing with the sanctioning body where you want to race it so perhaps step one of construction should be the administrative step of preparing a place for it? So far no elves have magically appeared eager to take on this task. If there are people who really want to build, race, or see them at our events it is all just talk until you invest in making it possible.
    Rick Bostrom
    ICSCC #155
    Groups 1/4/5

  4. #24
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    Jun 2017
    Location
    Milwaukie
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    Rick, Where does it say that Diesel cars may not race at Conference events? 1109 A. says that they can. Does it say otherwise some where else in the rule?
    What did I miss?

    And I guess the point I was trying to make is that ICSCC does not have a rule that prohibits the racing of EV's. It simply states that THOSE cars that are powered by gasoline or diesel or blends there of but shall not be solely fueled by alcohol or methanol or the use of Nitro-methane. Now because this is both a E & C rule, maybe it should be cleaned up a bit and made a bit clearer then the ambiguous wording that it has now. Clearly stating what fuels or means of propulsion a race car may have would be the best and will rule out any question.
    Last edited by Vince Vavrosky; 18 Mar 2019 at 05:06 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Vavrosky View Post
    Rick, Where does it say that Diesel cars may not race at Conference events? 1109 A. says that they can. Does it say otherwise some where else in the rule?
    What did I miss?
    Because 1109 says "will run only on gasoline or a blend of gasoline and alcohol[,]" you can't run on diesel. If it doesn't say you CAN, you can't.
    My favorite racing quote: Jan Magnussen, when asked by a reporter how he could be "so brave" on the racetrack, replied, "I've had hospital food; it's not so bad."

  6. #26
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    Dec 2008
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    If you turn to the next page (46) it actually says "Diesel and bio-diesel fuel will be allowed for use in diesel engine powered cars". It's all part of 1109A, the page break is just in a spot that makes it look like the section ends on page 45

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Adams View Post
    Because 1109 says "will run only on gasoline or a blend of gasoline and alcohol[,]" you can't run on diesel. If it doesn't say you CAN, you can't.
    Last edited by db1; 20 Mar 2019 at 03:30 PM.
    What would Johnny Canuck do?

  7. #27
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Woodinville, WA
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    Good catch, but then I'm confused: WHY, per Rick's comment, aren't diesel cars allowed to race with Conference?
    My favorite racing quote: Jan Magnussen, when asked by a reporter how he could be "so brave" on the racetrack, replied, "I've had hospital food; it's not so bad."

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