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Thread: FV Spec tire - again

  1. #1
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    FV Spec tire - again

    There's a message on the formulavee.org board talking about a proposal for a spec FV tire. I suppose ICSCC does not have to follow that specific part of the SCCA FV GCR, but would require a rule change proposal next fall if SCCA adopts a spec tire and we don't want to adopt that rule.

    If you drive an FV and have an opinion, go to the FV board and voice. They appear to be leaning towards Hoosier for the spec - so if you have an opinion about that, let it be known.

  2. #2
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    From the rules change results for 2012 posted on this site:

    Rule Change # 10
    "Formula Vee - All Formula Vee cars shall conform to SCCA regulations applicable to Formula Vee. All Formula Vees may use any brand of tire and compound number to fit 4 1⁄2 “ rims. Any brand of rain tires may be used providing that the tires were originally designed and produced by the manufacturer as rain tires for use exclusively on a wet track. Dry-track racing tires, other than the permissible specified tires, may not be modified for use as a rain or intermediate tire."

    This rule passed 302 to 78 and should be a part of E/C 1306.B.5. But looking at the rule book for this year (2015) only the next rule change (#11) appears:

    Rule Change #11
    "Formula Vee - All Formula Vee cars shall conform to SCCA regulations applicable to Formula Vee."

    This rule also passed 337 to 43.

    So can someone in the know about rules please tell us if rule #10 (you can run any tire you want) still applies, regardless of what the SCCA does, or are we going to have to bring this up again to prevent this from happening?

    Inquiring minds want/need to know!

    Thanks for the response/input.

    Troy Miller

  3. #3
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    No spec tire rule from SCCA yet

    (and probably never). I don't think that it has even been formally presented to their rule committee.

    If you are following the Apex forum discussion, it seems unlikely that there ever will be a consensus.

    So yes, any tire is definitely legal as long as it fits the 15" VW wheel.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyztek View Post
    No spec tire rule from SCCA yet

    (and probably never). I don't think that it has even been formally presented to their rule committee.

    If you are following the Apex forum discussion, it seems unlikely that there ever will be a consensus.

    So yes, any tire is definitely legal as long as it fits the 15" VW wheel.
    So, it appears SCCA FV rules will mandate a spec tire for 2017, likely is going to be some sort of Hoosier thing that Apexspeed thread is saying it's slightly slower than the current Hoosier compound. Being in conference - I believe - means we can propose a rule to allow any tire in ICSCC FV race and ignore the SCCA rule. The current ICSCC rule says the FV class must conform to SCCA FV GCR's, so I want to propose a rule this fall that we maintain the ability to run whatever brand tire we want (slick) that will fit on the current FV wheels.

    There is also discussion to allow an alternate wheel/tire combo - the Diamond wheel (wide five) and Falken tire that is run in the FV Challenge series (very popular in the midwest) and is also used in the Canadian F1200 series. The advantage to the Falken tire is extreme longevity and low cost - the Challenge series guys have complete tire/wheel sets, mounted and balanced for $680. The downside is increased weight on a 1200cc car without a comensurate increase in HP (like the FST class) so the min weight goes up and the cars go slower.

    Personally I favor just being able to continue to run on American Racers - or Hoosiers if I win the lottery - just as we do now and ignore the spec tire rule that is coming in SCCA next year. I thought I would like to run SCCA Majors this year, but the Heinrichs were right about SCCA not accepting ICSCC medicals, nor the conference license for the Majors - not to mention the $600 entry fee - double what we pay for a weekend of fun in conference. So, I won't have a need to run the spec Hoosier any time soon.

    Thoughts on a proposal to leave FV tires free? Any interest in the even less expensive Falkens?
    Jim Phoenix
    FV 44

    "For a little more, you can do it yourself." - Ed Hollingsworth

  5. #5
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    Hi Jim,

    I've not been active this year, but suddenly a member up here (Mission, BC) has proposed a spec tire proposal. It's too late to get it on the agenda, but I'd like to put our/my two cents in because we now have a season of experience working with an informal spec tire rule in SCCBC.

    Basically, everybody has agreed to run only American Racers (if its dry). It has resulted in very close racing with consistent lap times. This past weekend was a non-championship event (ie the historics) so we played around with both American Racers and Hoosiers. The result was that new Hoosiers are about 1.4 seconds faster a lap. However after 8 or 10 cycles they are on parity with the American Racers and after 17 cycles the cord will probably be showing. On the other hand, there seems to be very little time degradation on the AR's until maybe 20 or even 30 heat cycles. Therefore everybody is competing on equal terms with AR's no matter how many heat cycles you have on them. With Hoosiers you are losing about 1/10 second/per lap / per heat cycle. So in effect the guy with the new hoosiers wins.

    My personal experience has been that American Racers are more fun to race on because you get much more controllable slippage. I've heard that the really fast guys want the knife edge of the Hoosiers because it takes more skill, but we have a really fast Formula Ford guy up here who is absolutely amazing with what he can do on the American Racers. I just wish I could do the power drifts that he seems to do about twice per corner (and yes he does have the lap record for FF up here.)

    So, too conclude: I submit that the American Racers would be a good spec tire for our class because they are at least 2/3 the cost of the Hoosiers, they last three times longer, and everyone will be racing on equal traction regardless of the number of heat cycles. I should probably say that Hoosier makes an awesome tire and when they are new they have incredible traction; but they just don't seem to be appropriate for the spirit of Formula Vee if you have to buy a new set every 3 weekends.

    Just my two cents
    Paul

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyztek View Post
    Hi Jim,

    I've not been active this year, but suddenly a member up here (Mission, BC) has proposed a spec tire proposal. It's too late to get it on the agenda, but I'd like to put our/my two cents in because we now have a season of experience working with an informal spec tire rule in SCCBC.

    Basically, everybody has agreed to run only American Racers (if its dry). It has resulted in very close racing with consistent lap times. This past weekend was a non-championship event (ie the historics) so we played around with both American Racers and Hoosiers. The result was that new Hoosiers are about 1.4 seconds faster a lap. However after 8 or 10 cycles they are on parity with the American Racers and after 17 cycles the cord will probably be showing. On the other hand, there seems to be very little time degradation on the AR's until maybe 20 or even 30 heat cycles. Therefore everybody is competing on equal terms with AR's no matter how many heat cycles you have on them. With Hoosiers you are losing about 1/10 second/per lap / per heat cycle. So in effect the guy with the new hoosiers wins.

    My personal experience has been that American Racers are more fun to race on because you get much more controllable slippage. I've heard that the really fast guys want the knife edge of the Hoosiers because it takes more skill, but we have a really fast Formula Ford guy up here who is absolutely amazing with what he can do on the American Racers. I just wish I could do the power drifts that he seems to do about twice per corner (and yes he does have the lap record for FF up here.)

    So, too conclude: I submit that the American Racers would be a good spec tire for our class because they are at least 2/3 the cost of the Hoosiers, they last three times longer, and everyone will be racing on equal traction regardless of the number of heat cycles. I should probably say that Hoosier makes an awesome tire and when they are new they have incredible traction; but they just don't seem to be appropriate for the spirit of Formula Vee if you have to buy a new set every 3 weekends.

    Just my two cents
    Paul
    Hi Paul,

    I agree with everything you've said. I've raced all season on ARs, but I have a set of relatively new Hoosiers in the trailer I got in a deal. I was going to give them a go, but I think Andy Halbert can likely put them to better use, so I plan to give them to him and keep motoring on with my 6 weekend ARs.

    Likely I'll buy a new set of ARs next season, but not Hoosiers because the fast boys are racing SCCA so they can do the runoff. I don't plan to do the runoffs, and SCCA costs twice as much as conference, so no point there.

    I like the idea of ARs, but I think it's up to the individual, if they really want that extra 1.4 seconds and are willing to pay, I'm good with that. I just want to make sure we don't get locked into a spec tire (Hoosier) in conference because conference adopts SCCA FV rules. So do we need a conference rule that says follow SCCA except for spec tire?
    Last edited by Jim Phoenix; 26 Aug 2016 at 09:20 PM.
    Jim Phoenix
    FV 44

    "For a little more, you can do it yourself." - Ed Hollingsworth

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