Race Schedule ?

I am not advocating one schedule over another - I also think there have been lots of proposals with varying degrees of merit proposed. I have one very simple problem with all of this - it is all absolutely possible and within the control of the very people who attend Conference races! It is popular for someone to get on the Conference Forum (which I believe is actually viewed by a lot less of our members than people actually think!) and grouse about something that they personally are unhappy with. In some cases these kinds of posts are written in a fashion that would actually inspire healthy discussion but mostly they are insulting rants about how stupid or foolish everyone else is because we do things the same way for years on end.

It doesn't matter how altruistic or self serving someone's motives are it is always a lot more work to win the hearts and minds of your peers and bring about actual change than it is to sit back and complain about the way things are and the stupidity of those who are committing the sin of being happy with the way things are.

If the schedule isn't the way you want it, blame yourself. We are a member directed club that has policies and procedures specifically dedicated to preserving MEMBER control over Conference. Unlike many club racing sanctioning bodies across the country we have nobody but ourselves to blame if we aren't happy.

It's simple - if you want something to change there are some very basic steps you can take to make a change.

1) Enter Conference Races - nobody is going to take you very seriously if you complain all the time about the way we run our races but you never enter any.
2) Make Friends - we are as friendly a group as any I have ever been in contact with. Immerse yourself in Conference society, associate with people who share your vision of a better Conference.
3) Identify a problem - make sure that what you perceive as a problem isn't just personal dissatisfaction or an irrational need for the drama that change can bring. You are doing Conference and yourself service if you are truly interested in making things better. No system is perfect so constant analysis is welcome provided it is constructive and productive.
4) Come up with a fully thought out solution - even your friends are not really interested in diagnosing your unhappiness and then investing their own time and effort just to make you happy. Where I come from that is described as lazy and self centered. Maybe it is described as something different in other places. WRITE a fully detailed proposal that others can read, critique, and improve.
4) Sell, sell, sell - now that you have identified a problem that is real AND conceived a solution that will solve that problem AND done your best to consider all of the consequences that will result both intended and unintended AND created a step by step implementation plan that considers required schedule, rulebook, and PnP changes AND considers the impact on our priceless volunteer resources it is finally time to convince your friend. Once you have convinced your friends you all spread out and convince the rest of the membership any way you can. I would suggest looking them in the eye and having a conversation at Conference events.
5) Propose your improvement at club rule change meetings knowing that it will pass because you have already gotten out and beat the bushes for popular support by patiently explaining it's merits to everyone who would listen.
6) Make yourself and your accumulated knowledge available at Fall and Spring ICSCC meeting time to explain your revision to the Executive Board of the ICSCC and answer any fears they have about it's appeal to the members, any contradictions it causes in administrating races, and its potential to raise or lower car counts and the economic effect that might have long term. The ICSCC E-Board is not anti-change and they are not trying to ruin anyone's enjoyment of racing - they are simply very careful not to squander the great legacy that was passed down to them after several decades of careful planning.

Sounds like hard work doesn't it? That's what it takes and somebody would have to actually hitch themselves to the plow to get it done.

Or, conversely, you can make petty grumbles on the Conference Forum and complain about how nobody listens to you and apparently nobody else wants to do the work that you don't want to do either so it's best to just ***** until you bait the windbag enough to post a long dismissive rant and then it goes away, all sound and fury signifying nothing.

Effin' A, Rick. Right on.

Unless you're a dictator and those around you exist solely to actualize your every idle comment, complaining about something isn't even the first step to making a change. As Rick spelled out, effecting change in Conference is actually easier than in a lot of other places, but it's still an awful lot of work. If you feel strongly enough about something, you CAN make a difference and you CAN get it done. But YOU have to be willing to actually put your boots on the ground, so to speak.

Spoken like a Politicians instead of answering the questions lets discredit the those that dare to ask questions or suggested any change. It,s easier to ramble on and on. This is a forum for members to ask question make suggestions to the other members is it not, obviously i was wrong to think that because you are called a Dictator Lazy complainer and what ever else you can think of. You should take some of your own advice but then again he must just like to hear yourself ramble and try to prove your intelligence.
With almost 3000 views on the subject there must be a lot interest on the subject than you think.

So Alan,

Why aren't you willing to do the work to change the schedule?

Andre

Andre, Alan is not an active Conference member, and why re-do this over and over. He asked the question, and he deserves an answer.

You have NO idea how much work I have put into this Rick, starting clear back in the late 90's when I was on the E-board. I have no car anymore, and may never have one again, so I really have no dog in this hunt, but it still needs to be addressed if we as a group want to move forward.
Asking a question, as Alan did, does not qualify as grumbling or complaining, and insulting him proves nothing. Or if you were perhaps insulting me, then as you know I, like you, am immune to that course of action. My old hide is as tough as your old rhino hide, and as the people on Shark Tank say, "I'm out."

Nobody's knocking the idea of asking questions. "Why are we doing this this way?" is a great question to ask about anything from time to time. However, ONLY asking the question is ONLY going to be productive if you're trying to start a conversation. It's NOT going to actually get anything done. If the point of complaining about something / asking a question is to get something accomplished, Conference is a volunteer-/member-driven organization and people who are interested in change (ANY change) need to get out there and start working with their fellow members to get the ball rolling. And, of course, change that benefits a wide slice of the membership is going to be easier to accomplish than change that seems to only benefit a very narrow audience.

Hey Wes, I asked Alan a question and I deserve an answer too? Him not being a member, or you not wanting to read more on the subject isn't a reason for him to not answer my question.

Plus he got answers to, whether he asked on purpose or not, his implied question which seemed to be "Why is Conference obstructionist when it comes to format change?" which included from someone the phrase " we've always done it that way" as part of the obstructionist justification. And the answer is mostly, they/we aren't obstructionists.

And if he chose to answer my question, even just to himself, he'll most likely answer his own original question. If he isn't willing to do the work, why should others?

Right now the Rules are set to spread out the commitment a driver has to make to as many participating venues to try to keep the tracks alive, appease the insurance Gods, not burn out the workers and volunteers, provide a mostly predictable schedule, set minimums of cars per class participation, and a lot of other puzzle pieces, so a Championship means something at least to the driver who won.

Just gleaning information in all the threads here over the last few years, and a concerted pro-active effort to reach out to every possible entity one could think of, and be prepared to resolve the glitches that will crop up, format change probably could happen. But the first stop would be to read and understand the entire rule book to try to understand the scope of how all the pieces of a season fit together, how the proposal would affect each puzzle joint, and how to solve those problems with a minimum impact to all involved. Ton of work.

Too, whoever chooses to take it on should consider, and will have to convince the majority of the voting drivers, that they would be willing to stick around for three to five years to deal with all the unforeseen problems, and get the new format up and running as smoothly as any season now runs.

Steve Adams said:

Nobody's knocking the idea of asking questions. "Why are we doing this this way?" is a great question to ask about anything from time to time. However, ONLY asking the question is ONLY going to be productive if you're trying to start a conversation. It's NOT going to actually get anything done. If the point of complaining about something / asking a question is to get something accomplished, Conference is a volunteer-/member-driven organization and people who are interested in change (ANY change) need to get out there and start working with their fellow members to get the ball rolling. And, of course, change that benefits a wide slice of the membership is going to be easier to accomplish than change that seems to only benefit a very narrow audience.

Click to expand...

Case in point: We have some pretty major rule changes going into effect in 2015 - the elimination of the ARR license, the car number no longer being tied to the driver, and the elimination of 7xx numbers for non-Conference-licensed drivers. Credit for getting these changes done goes to Dan Heinrich, who first broached these ideas back about last May. He talked to people, got their opinions and concerns, built support, wrote the rule change proposals, and went to member club rule change meetings to explain and answer questions. Dan did this *not* as a Steward or Conference officer (both of which which he is), but as a driver just like any of us.

I will offer a slightly different view/option/rambling..

For me, if we went to something along the lines of a qualifying and points race each day, I would be more apt to attend other tracks besides PIR.

My reason for this is that I could then attend a single day (usually Saturday) and still be able to gather points for the season. I am not as concerned about costs or even getting more racing in the weekend; I just have a hard time selling my wife on me being gone an entire weekend from Friday to Sunday night..

This type of schedule has been used by Oregon SCCA and NASA in the past with great success..

Anyways, that's my Two-bits.

I like this years schedule. With fewer weekends of towing it gets back to where an average Joe can't as easily be outspent by the whales and put out of contention.

With that being said, I think track time is track time to some degree. If you want to race every time you are behind the wheel then go autocross or go to the gokart park. Qualifying is a race of sorts, it's difficult to be the fastest time. People seem to get these hard ons for races, but if you turn every session into a race then soon people write off the races as just sessions and you are no better than we are now. I think races should be special, the crown jewel in everyone's weekends.

Everyone is also quick to say what they would or would not do if a change was made. "If they had that class I would enter two groups", "if there was a triple race, I would go", etc.. Can't base all these decisions on all the hypothetical things out there, sitting back and watching you see that few follow through with what they say they are going to do.

ICSCC does a great job at looking at all the points of approach and making decisions that are good for the overall CLUB, which is important to remember. Keep up the good work!

The best thing you can do for the schedule is stay on the track and don't hit things.

It makes me feel guilty when the Safety Team can't get things green in time for the next grid release.

Rick B always inspires me to indulge my keyboard.

djjerme said:

I will offer a slightly different view/option/rambling..

For me, if we went to something along the lines of a qualifying and points race each day, I would be more apt to attend other tracks besides PIR.

This type of schedule has been used by Oregon SCCA and NASA in the past with great success..

Click to expand...

I too like racing on both days but to have championship points racing on both days kind of blows up the whole program. It's the proverbial wrench in the gears because frankly it would require lots of changing and would be a dramatic departure from the way Conference has operated for a long time. But the conclusions I've come to are below just to pen it out...

1: ICSCC championship requires you have to attend at least 50% of the races (rounding down). (So in a 15 race season, you'd need to attend a minimum of 7).
2: Each member club is only allowed to host 3 championship points races
3: The combined points from a maximum 10 points races will count toward your championship. (If you do 12 races, it'd be your 10 best results)

So what occurs if we want to allow a points race each day, each weekend?

-We can't do the points race every day (sat/sun) because in two weekends a club would already exceed their maximum number of points races (3).
-If we did adopt this then #2 and #3 would have to change in the bylaws. Something like allowing a club to host a maximum of 5 or 6 points races and increase the number of races that contribute to a championship from 10 to something more like 15 or more.

- If we did increase the allowable number of championship races a club could host then it would reduce the value of the "double" and the "triple" held by TC/NWMS/SCCBC and would predictably reduce their entries (and that's bad), because the majority of ICSCC members do live in the Portland and Puget Sound area.
- Once you double the number of points races that can be held you potentially create less impetus for folks, especially those not going for championship glory, to forgo visiting our distant brethren. Right now the value for making that long haul is two-fold: More championship points races in a weekend, more potential points to accrue in a weekend. If you double value of IRDC/CSCC weekends, you dilute the value of the others all else being equal.

That last one lead me to ask this question: Is finding that solution worth creating the problem in the first place? IMHO, the answer is No. I felt the value-adds that were created instead by IRDC (Non-Points race on Sat) and CSCC (1 hour enduro) were excellent value adds without upsetting the whole apple cart. In fact the 1-hour enduro was adopted by, I believe, all the other member clubs and the mine-enduro-series was born.

My facts are usually on par with Brian Williams so someone correct whatever I've got wrong. :wink:

As it stands right now on any given race weekend there's more racing available for me to do then I can actually do!

Good summary Colin

The only thing I would add is that we might profit from a revue of the rules as they were written for the most part with large race venues and single championship races in mind.