NASA in the PacNW in 2013

I believe that the challenge can only be met when the Conference really is a conference, and have not become a gaggle of sports car clubs simply operating for their events under a common banner of insurability alone.

On a more personal note, however much time and material that I, or another participant may volunteer toward those efforts is directly reflected in a clubs' ability to motivate. ANY club.

I never started this game because I thought the pay was any good. Nor did I ever think that the opportunities for advancement might secure a future in the industry. I've had a lot of fun doing what I've been doing. And as it turned out, I'm pretty good at it... most of the time. And it didn't matter much to me which logo was on the dash plaque. The people that I worked WITH are what matter. And many of those people are also participating at those OTHER events in one form or another.

If the Conference continues to shrink operations to meet the labor force. Then it will be more and more difficult to increase the labor force to meet the real demands of the operations. The product of ICSCC is more than simply the number of butts that get belted in every weekend. The product for sale here is really the safe and efficient operation of a racing event. THAT is why anyone would even bother to bring their belts to the show.

Look at the 10-ish % of 700#s on any given weekend. Why are they there? No points? No trophies? Is it the cliche "bang-for-your-$"?

Or is it the racing?

To follow on a bit to Ken's post, it seems to me there are two logical ways ICSCC can respond as an organization:

• Resistance: Actively resist any attempts by another organization to "encroach" upon our turf. Encourage racers, workers, and even tracks to freeze them out. Do everything we can to keep them from succeeding.
• Acceptance: Recognize that, once upon a time, when SCCA was stronger here, ICSCC was able to exist side-by-side with another vibrant sanctioning body. It worked then and there's no reason it can't work now. Better still, piggy-back on the work they do with HPDE and Time Attack participants to attract new wheel-to-wheel racers... to ICSCC, of course.

I prefer the latter option, but taking that course, even more so than the former, requires a tremendous level of effort on the part of ICSCC and everyone who's part of a Member or Affiliate club. If there are a finite number of W2W racers in the Northwest, this is already a battle for hearts and minds. If NASA's HPDE/solo efforts are successful at finding new racers, then it's an opportunity to expand our ranks.

Make no mistake, though, this is a time of crisis for ICSCC. Far too early to panic, of course, but we must recognize this threat to ICSCC for what it is. As others have pointed out, NASA is a for-profit business that had franchises in every region of the country except the Pacific Northwest. They are motivated on a number of levels to come in here and be successful.

The greatest strength of ICSCC, that we are an organization of, by, and for racers, is potentially also our Achille's Heel: If NASA brings a product to the Pacific Northwest that is viewed as superior to that provided by ICSCC, losing racers to them also means losing the group that keeps ICSCC as a functioning entity. If we do not actively and aggressively respond (positively or not) to the potential threat posed by NASA's arrival, we might as well go get licenses with them now.

(This post is obviously written from the perspective that there is a looming crisis for ICSCC so far as racers are concerned. Given the incredibly limited worker base in the area, there already is a crisis as far as that issue is concerned.)

Wes

I agree that we need more racing. I also agree that we need to preserve the track time we have. ICSCC drivers have been asked to vote on a rule change that would allow this. Only problem is it would reduce the number of weekends and send our drivers over to SCCA or NASA. NWMS believes that a minor re-write of 703 is all that is needed. The current rule requires practice/quali/quali the proposed re-write would require 3 sessions (40 minutes total minimum) to be used for practice and/or qualifying, and/or sprint racing and/or sprint race/qualifying. So member clubs would be able to provide more races for the folks who do not travel, preserve our number of event dates, preserve the structure of the ICSCC Championship, and leave room for Club Championships consisting of sprint races and/or longer Championship races.

NASA is a for-profit organization and not based in the PNW. So someone not from around here pockets our money. I'll stay with ICSCC even if they do muck up the total number of race weekends available for each Club and open the door wider for NASA. Call me stubborn.

I thought I would share my input from a newer racers point of view. When I sought out a place to race my car, I was intimadated a bit by SCCA and sought a "local" group to run with. When I joined and started the novice program, I found a great group of people and no intimidation at all. I believe the ICSCC strengths are the more local feel, and club enviroment. SCCA and NASA will always draw people for national exposure and this is part of their strength. The solo and HPDE formats that NASA is strong with will turn a few drivers into racers due them catching the racing bug during these events, this is how it happened for me. We as a group can attend some of the NASA events and show our ICSCC stickers and such which will draw questions from fellow drivers and then the person to person "sell" of our group can happen. I, as many members don't race every weekend available to me, and another option from NASA will only be that, another option. I spread my budget and time to get the most bang for the buck, but wouldn't consider leaving ICSCC as my main group. Our product is very good, competion usually makes you better!

From NASA's 2012 CCR

"11.4.20 Tow Eyes
It is STRONGLY recommended that all vehicles have at least two (2) easily accessible
(and usable) tow eyes; one (1) in front and one (1) in back. They must not protrude
dangerously from the car, and they must be accessible without manipulation of the
bodywork and/or panels. They should be strong enough to support the weight of the car.
If no tow eyes are available, the towing crew will hook onto other things that may
cause damage to the driver’s car. The towing crew will not be held liable for that
damage. Again, tow eyes are STRONGLY recommended."

That's right. We may just yank the thing out by the engine block. So be prepared. ;0

I believe this passage is an HPDE gerneral rule, and as I continue to explore the sections on each of the classes I'll find more mandated stuff. A brand new buncha rule sets to explore.

What fun.

Ken Killam said:

From NASA's 2012 CCR

"11.4.20 Tow Eyes
It is STRONGLY recommended that all vehicles have at least two (2) easily accessible
(and usable) tow eyes; one (1) in front and one (1) in back. They must not protrude
dangerously from the car, and they must be accessible without manipulation of the
bodywork and/or panels. They should be strong enough to support the weight of the car.
If no tow eyes are available, the towing crew will hook onto other things that may
cause damage to the driver’s car. The towing crew will not be held liable for that
damage. Again, tow eyes are STRONGLY recommended."

That's right. We may just yank the thing out by the engine block. So be prepared. ;0

I believe this passage is an HPDE gerneral rule, and as I continue to explore the sections on each of the classes I'll find more mandated stuff. A brand new buncha rule sets to explore.

What fun.

View attachment 1062

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I'm curious, for Driver Education/HPDE/track days with the various clubs around here, what would the tow line normally be attached to for a typical street car?

Sorry for the thread hijack. I ask as I've been thinking of doing some track days with my BMW daily driver.

Usually a carabiner will slip onto the OEM loops under either side of most cars. And sometimes there's enough room to slip a strap around the sway bar. BMWs have those goofy eye bolt sorta things that screw into the bumper. But overall, it's a wonderful puzzle that we sort out at each incident.

My advice is to take a good look around your car, front and rear. Decide what YOU would hook up to, to pull it backwards or forwards without bending or tearing metal and plastic. If you can't find anything that you would trust, consider what we might use instead. Most tow truck operators are good at their jobs and can extract street cars from any number of different situations. Usually they don't always need to take too many precautions. In our environment, we try not to bugger up anything that isn't already buggered.

Thanks for asking. It gets real tired when race car owners won't consider how we might get their vehicle recovered without taking the rest of the session, or day, simply because they didn't want to add one pound of steel.

We now return you to your normally scheduled concern for the future of ICSCC.

Thanks, Ken. I need to check if I even have the eyebolt.

There was a Volvo in the Chump Car race that had its tow point welded to the cross member under the engine. Joel had to get down on his belly on a hot race track to reach the damn thing. I wonder what some of these guys were thinking when they dreamed up their tow points. Make it strong, make it accessible, and make it obvious. While you are sitting in your cacoon of steel, the Safety guys have their ass hanging out in the wind trying to get you and your cacoon hauled away before someone runs both over. The Volvo WILL be making changes to that tow point.

"So what you're saying Bill is that you only want to race at your local tracks regardless of club?'

Sorry Colin, I was in San Fran for several days but wanted to reply to you. You started the thread and asked for discussion and then sort of flamed me for my opinion. I have a great deal of respect for you and your commitment to local racing. I know ICSCC has a long history in the NW. As this thread shows some loyalty goes back 40 years. I am not sure my experience is unique, but I started racing in 2010. I attended by the IRDC drivers school as well as the SCCA school in Portland. My first green flag race was actually an SCCA event the weekend of my school. I was concurrently in the novice program with Conference. What I did not like about SCCA was that a vast majority of their races were in Portland with only 1 at Pacific, and at the time, a couple at Bremerton which I did not really want to do. Conference allowed me to race three events at Pacific which is closer to my home in Poulsbo. I went to ORP in 2010 as well as Mission in 2011.

I do not chase a championship nor do I have a budget that would actually allow me do that even if I wanted to. As long as Conference has so many weekends and requires so many events to qualify, it simply does not fit into my budget. But I can race 6-8 events a year including the 8 hour which I enjoy the most. Therefore, since I am not chasing points, is it not logical to prefer local tracks more frequently if the opportunity presents itself? I might make a trip to Portland for instance or maybe one trip to Mission but with the cost of towing, etc, the better "bang for my buck" is to race closer to home. Ideally if I could run 3 events at Pacific and 3 events at The Ridge that would be a perfect race season for me. Whether this is unique thinking on my part, or quite representative of many local club racers, regardless of sanctioning body, I don't know.

I am a member of IRDC not ICSCC. Perhaps as was mentioned by someone else here, the various club aspect of ICSCC may be the very thing that could potentially weaken the organization as a whole. Make no mistake about it, NASA is a very well run organization. As to how they will fare in the NW, only time will tell. But, if you look around the country they do very well at providing HPDE, Time Trials, and Club Racing at a very high level. From my limited experience, fewer run groups, huge grids and more racing. I will continue to support IRDC and look forward to renewing my membership!

Bill-

What if ICSCC got more aggressive with it's recruitment of new people with? I know that may mean some of the old timers would have to get out of the warm and fuzzy rut they have worn for themselves, but perhaps EVERYONE this year should set a goal of mentoring or bringing in ONE new member. Even if it's not someone who ultimately gains their license, but bringing one new person to either crew or participate. If by chance that you could get one new person to do one Novice race in your own car, then what would our numbers be? Would it then be able to justify lowered entrance fee's perhaps?

This would mean that perhaps members look OUTSIDE conference to bring in new blood. Join a local car club, attend an autocross, hang out at an auto parts store, go to a drag racing night, join a car forum.. Look out side the pits (those people are already here..)

Think of it like crab fishing, and start dropping some test pots in other areas, it's a big ocean!

Bill Bonsell said:

You started the thread and asked for discussion and then sort of flamed me for my opinion.

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Not flaming just illustrating a very real potential phenomenon that may occur and your example is very real proof this. You're right, you're not unique in your budget and preferences as a racer and that was what I was trying to point out.

Bill Bonsell said:

Ideally if I could run 3 events at Pacific and 3 events at The Ridge that would be a perfect race season for me. Whether this is unique thinking on my part, or quite representative of many local club racers, regardless of sanctioning body, I don't know.

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You should be doing what's right for you. Nobody can fault you for that. I think the larger discussion here is how do we make ICSCC the organization that is the answer when folks ask themselves "What's right for me?". For folks that mirror your locational and budgetary restrictions Bill, there is little the ICSCC (or any club for that manner) can do to gain your loyalty (for races outside of your locale). Brand Loyalty in this case is beyond the budgetary reach. That's not good, bad or indifferent.. it just is. However, if SCCA or NASA are hosting a race at The Ridge on the same weekend IRDC is hosting a race at Pacific. Which race are you going to attend? I want to know how the ICSCC (IRDC or otherwise) can win your loyalty when in this situation (and others with your same restrictions).

Loyalty is an important word here. It could be to an organization, to a budget, to certain tracks, cars or classes. It's all about what's important. Identifying what's important to our customer base and capitalizing on that is going to be key going forward.

Bill Bonsell said:

I am a member of IRDC not ICSCC.

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I'm not sure that's possible but I get the point you're trying to make.

I think the ICSCC needs a better sales department.

And yes, I thought that comment needed it's own post.

It's entirely possible. There are no requirements to become a member of any of the clubs which is ICSCC, but still be an active participant and official, representing any, or all of the clubs in their operations. Ya just gotta raise yer hand.

I think the product sells itself when it has been marketed appropriately. Follow the example of those successful spec-type-ish classes. You just throw a 'Lance' at it. Help us out here, Olsen!

How would you package the Conference?

I know for fact that there are a BUNCH of folks involved in the Conference that think they're pretty good at sellin' stuff. We should have an essay contest.

Colin

I agree we need to sell ourselves better, particularly to our own members. Part of doing this will require listening to our customers and responding to their input. For example all Bill wants is more local racing and more bang for his racer bucks. A small tweak to 703 to allow sprint races or sprint qualifying races in place of the mandated practice/quali/quali would provide more races. As for more bang for the racer buck ( putting on my NWMS hat for a moment) it is a marketing problem. Multi-race weekends are close to or below the cost of doing 2 or 3 local races for most racers. The problem is the total weekend cost is more. Even on a modest 500.00 per race budget (1500.00 total for 3 local races) this would give a racer close to 1100.00 to get to Spokane, get a room for 2 nights and race.

As for brand loyalty with respect to ICSCC vs NASA I really do not have a choice as NASA does not offer club racing to formula cars, sports racers or tube frame GT cars (at least not that I can find on their web site). Instead they cater to a limited number of spec classes and are willing to hand out race licenses to HPDE drivers who are encouraged to wear long sleeved shirts during events (no open toe shoes allowed). But I digress.

NASA has done their homework and concluded that the population of racers and cars in the Northwest is sufficient to justify market entry. They maybe right and if they are all is well. If they are not we all suffer.

Minors! That's awesome.

robjacobsen said:

The Race Officials Division will be meeting at the Marriott on Saturday morning before the ICSCC banquet. Stop by if you're in the area and talked to the folks there.

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Thanks Rob. Wish I could be there but I have to be in Oregon City.

We do need to be introspective and to listen carefully. We do need to examine who we are and what we stand for, then articulate that effectively to ourselves and others.

ICSCC is the member clubs, drivers and volunteers. We have a successful history and there is no reason why we can't continue to be successful. We don't have to "remake ourselves", we just have to make sure we are providing the best racing and driver education that we possibly can, and we need to get the message about our value clear to ourselves and to those we wish to attract.

I am looking forward to some great discussions this coming weekend and beyond! We have everything we need to continue to provide great driving events, even with increased competition from NASA and the crap can racing scene. We just have to make it happen. We will also have some opportunities for "co-op-etition" with the crap can scene, since we do seem to feed each other. That may well happen with NASA as well. We want to be on the receiving end of that.

Ideas will fuel this. Let's hear them! Positive and negative feedback will all need to be heard. Not "bitching" but reasoned statements of what we can do better. Also statements of what we do very well.

See you at the Banquet!

Re: Loyalty

One of the best ways to generate this loyalty is to make everyone who shows up at one of our events feel like part of our group, "family" if you will.
How do we get them to stay?--Make them feel comfortable being there and excited about what we are doing.

I remember August showing up at Spokane as an SCCA member for his first (?) conference race. I remember the 944s showing up at Seattle for their first run with us. How many of you just said "hi" and made them feel welcome. Evidently enough people did what it took, because they stayed with us. We need to all keep doing that.

Individuals coming to the track alone and hiding out in their paddock space without anyone ever stopping to speak to them will not help--take an interest in people you don't know and see if you can be proactive in finding ways to make their stay with us better for them. Many of us say that the competitive racing is half the reason we're here, but the other half is the camaraderie, friendship, support, enthusiasm, help, etc. Conference is both.