Enduro???

Also - keep in mind that per current ICSCC regs the clubs are not supposed to put on something like an enduro within the confines of the Conference championship sprint race season. That is why they are held before and after the season and not during. That means unless the race is held as a non-ICSCC event it can't happen in the "summer". "Spring" (before season) and Fall (after season) are fine.

Since we have a "White Board" to start with this proposed Enduro, I'd like to put a couple of suggestions forward to make the event economical and possibly more competitive.

1) Mandatory Pit Stops - Timed stops of perhaps 2 (or 3 or ??) minutes in a 10 minute window, 5 minutes on either side of the top of every hour. (This should end up in the need for less crew as multi-car teams could use the same fuel and fire bottle people)
2) Mandatory Driver Change - For every Pit Stop.
3) Fuel - Only one 5- gallon jug of fuel over the wall at a time. No fuel towers, no speed jugs. (we could "borrow" some of the rules from Chump Car)

A 4-hour race combined with a couple of hours of open practice/testing would hopefully be a big draw even if it were run under full Wet Coast spring sunshine

Thoughts?

rick_bostrom said:

Also - keep in mind that per current ICSCC regs the clubs are not supposed to put on something like an enduro within the confines of the Conference championship sprint race season. That is why they are held before and after the season and not during. That means unless the race is held as a non-ICSCC event it can't happen in the "summer". "Spring" (before season) and Fall (after season) are fine.

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As I had considered previously, the CSCC and SCCBC enduros of yesteryear were not considered ICSCC events, nor did they employ the ICSCC Stewards to control the event. The "Supps" for these events were written by the operating clubs (as they are still) for their specific events, considered and put to a ratifying vote by the Executive Board to allow for insurance coverage under the ICSCC's insurance program. Other than that there was no direct involvement by ICSCC in those race operations.

Perspectives change over time. And I agree, Rick. It doesn't make much marketing sense to hold an enduro-type event during the ICSCC 'season', but I guess I'm not familiar with the regulations saying anything specific about that. "Special" events run on the same weekend of a championship event, and the supplemental regulations that pertain to those events perhap, but I don't know that the regulations are any more restrictive than that. Could you specify the section that I might find that verbage that you elude to? Thanks.

SCCBC executive have approved a 4hour enduro race at Mission for the 2012 race season. Date is still pending at the moment, but the race will happen in April.

This is big for Mission raceway and, SCCBC as there has not been an endurance race for several years.

Get your cars and teams ready for this event.

R&P Motorsports said:

SCCBC executive have approved a 4hour enduro race at Mission for the 2012 race season. Date is still pending at the moment, but the race will happen in April.

This is big for Mission raceway and, SCCBC as there has not been an endurance race for several years.

Get your cars and teams ready for this event.

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My 30 min sprint race there was EXHAUSTING.....can't imagine a 100 min stint, but damn that would be blast of an enduro!

Bill-

I am glad to help out! I would like to see a series that could be a 6 race series and for those that travel, perhaps make it a two day, two race enduro. Like a Saturday 3 hour and then a Sunday three hour. Or to get more involved a Saturday two hour to get your feet wet with some supplemental rules (later on that part). and follow up on a three hour on Sunday. The new guys could pass on the Sunday race or keep on going. The track time is already rented and you could offer a first time discount for those that are new. Hookem! Also, have a seminar introducing endurance racing and discuss the great things about it and break the stereotype of cost, wear and tear, FUN! These could be held at every sprint event. Demonstrate strategies, tire changing. Have people in the audience come up and change a tire! Have some simple brochures or hand outs. I have students at my school ( graphic Communications class) make posters and calenders for the GTM crowd (HUGE SUCCESS!!) The cost is so low, I had to ask twice! Very Professional and the kids design something for the real world! If this is a direction for you, I could have my students do the brochures also. They are really good at it! The only thing I can see that I would have to do this year to join in your races or series is that I will have to plan lighter! Thanks to Randy and Frank last year for helping get some of my cost down, unfortunately, we could not make it up. Allso, for those beginners, you could offer pit support, that is another story.

Richard
Team PDG

On previous response: putting to many supplements like fuel jugs, mandatory pit stop every hour, etc. These are all ideas to take forward, but don't dilute the main objective here: endurance racing. Diluting the action will dilute the interest and it will no longer be a real race but just bonus track time..

i do think we have something with the Limited classes i have not decided if they way we do it is the right way or not but it is a fun way , with our Limited classes its displacement based not performance so in one of races i had a GT1 based car i had to race against and it was fun and after 1 hour of racing i was still on the same lap and would have been a close one at the end if the car didnt have issues. so anyone the would come from the south (nasa) in some cases they would not be racing against the same people in their E0-E3 classes.

I ran both the 4 Hour at Pacific and the 8 Hours at Portland this year in L3 and we finished 2nd in class both races and with a bit of luck we might have been able to win both. Other than radios and fresh fluids, tires etc, the cost IMO is pretty good considering the amount of driving time and the absolute satisfaction of putting a team together and taking the checkered flag. I think, quite honestly, a lot of people don't want to run the enduro for fear they break their cars. Perhaps a driver survey to find out the hesitation would be good. As Rick stated, just about everyone who enters an enduro says it was a highlight of their year. Was for me!

Sign me up already for the Spring 2013 Enduro at The Ridge!!

Bill-

My 30 min sprint race there was EXHAUSTING.....can't imagine a 100 min stint,

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oh, it's a lot easier!

Here's the thing, though- the IRDC spring enduro didn't happen for next season because no- on was ENTERING it. Or rather, we were down to about half the
entries needed to break even in 2011. Cascade barely made 20 entries last fall, and I got the sense that was a bit below their comfort level, too.

I like enduros too, but the bottom line is that if they're not popular enough to pay for themselves (mostly) then they're not going to last.
All the clubs are too close to the margin to keep losing (tons of) money on events...

t

So how do we get more entries and what is the real hesitation for entering? Good grief, the 25 at Thunderhill had 85 entries. Do we need longer enduro's - shorter ones? Do we need lower entry fees hoping this drives more entries? I wish someone with some computer skill could put a poll or questionaire together and post it here as well as putting it out in the ICSCC memo driving it to the website for responses. Does anyone think the entries would grow with a bit of a shorter sprint season? I have to believe that many racers would actually like to do an endurance race...and I think most who have done one will glowingly endorse the events as high points of their season. Or does a sprint only racer have a totally different mindset than someone who does both? I'd hate to think they will disappear from our race schedule in years to come.

Bill-

For us, it is about the length of the event and the competition. We would love to enter all three cars if there was a series (4-6-8 or 6-8-12) with points and such. Even one big, long, mid-summer event would be worth it, but when we "fit them in" at poor times of the year, it really drains the fun factor out of the equation. The portland enduro is now too close to the 25 for some people to think about doing both, and given a choice, racing 80+ cars for 25 hours beats racing 20+ cars for 8.

Once upon a time the Enduro at the end of the year was looked forward to as the regular ICSCC season ended. I remember as teams were being built and regular cars were quickly converted (sometimes within a week) for that finale 'celebration'. A good question to ponder may be what has changed in the last 10 years or so, and for what reasons? What took the fun out of it for those participants of the past? Ask the participants that have, but are no longer entering.

Did the wants of the current few out voice the needs of those many of the past? Numbers don't lie. It just ain't what it used to be for some that remember what it used to be.

I'll throw in my 2 cents here:

I race with Conference because of the sprint race series, not the enduros. I suspect most drivers are that way.
I'm certainly not against racing in an enduro, but for me, at this time, my focus is on the sprint race series.

The 25 at T-Hill is a spectacle with international participation and a lot of press coverage. I'm not sure it's a fair comparison with regional enduros like what we have up here.

I do like Bill's idea of polling ICSCC members to gauge interest in enduros and other things. However, it's probably best to do mail-in polling vs online polling since such a small percentage of Conference racers actually participate in these forums.

Otherwise, people like me (with over 500 posts - how did that happen?!) would sway the results and we'd end up with rules like "Only blue 1989 Honda CRXes are allowed to swap in a 170 hp B16 engine with no ballast and be legal for ITA". I mean, I LIKE IT, but I'm betting that 90% of my competitors wouldn't like it. And the other 10% would still be faster than me.

Rec'd a note from SOVREN advising of a chump-car type 16 hr. enduro in March at PR - a 2 day event. Could not find anything about this on the PR website. Anyone know anything about this?

Robert Barg

Hmmmm.

I don't see Pacific Raceways on the 2012 schedules for Chumpcar or 24 Hours of Lemons. They both have dates at PIR, and the Ridge on their posted schedules though.

Chumpcar has PIR March 31-Apr Fools' Day, Spokane May 5-6, then again July 21-22, The Ridge Sept. 15th, and PIR's 4th endurance endeavor around Halloween Oct 27-28

24 Hrs of Lemons has PIR Feb 18-19, and The Ridge July 21-22

Stars Project's 'Rat Race' format has one sometime, I'm sure at ORP, and has projected a PIR date in June, so maybe they are also working on a date at Pacific too.

Who was worried about NASA coming to town?? :tongue:

No, it is not specifically a "Chump Car" event but appears to be similar - put on by PR called the "RollX-16hr." Ken, send me your email and I will fwd it on.

Robert Barg

Here's my Pros From Dover mailbox:

tpfd@comcast.net

That's one I use for queries, and information in regards to our great sport. Feel free to let others that have questions about what it is we do out there all day/night. I'd be happy to post related information on the Pros From Dover facebook page too. Just let us know.

No commercials, just the facts.

I respond to this thread because I used to race with this club, met some really nice people, and I would like to see it evolve and grow rather than shrink and die. This thread is about the enduro but much of what I say can be applied to regular conference racing also.

Someone posted earlier and lumped Chumpcar (CC) and Lemons together as events rather than real racing. I have done many of both and understand where the comment comes from but I speak of CC and you need to pull your nose down and come to the realization that it is real racing. I learned more in one CC race than I did in several years of Conference racing. Many of the drivers in CC are just as good or better than Conference drivers and quite a few are Conference drivers.

Probably the biggest reason that CC has grown so quickly is that almost every one in the field has a chance to win. I was chastised by some of the elite in Conference because I dared to state that I went to a race with the thought of winning. I enjoy the "driving experience", I enjoy the "camaraderie", but lets get real, we go racing because we want to win.

In Conference I have no chance of ever winning a race. In CC I have won, and every race I have been in I have had a good chance of winning. Why? Duh...money. In CC you can build a winning car for 5k but even on the low end in Conference it takes 15k just to build a back marker. In CC almost everyone can afford to build a car that is capable of winning. In CC it is driving skill, teamwork, and preparation that wins races. In Conference it is money, teamwork, money, preparation, and money that wins. Many of the drivers in conference are good enough to win but don't have the money to compete for the win. Yes there are a couple drivers that win regularly in conference that have the skill to win in anything but many of the wins in conference are purchased.

If you want participation in an enduro I guess it comes down to who you cater to...the haves or have nots? Conference is moving in the direction of the haves and that is a very small group. Classes....no....I want to win, I don't want to be the fastest of the slow cars.

"Classes....no....I want to win, I don't want to be the fastest of the slow cars." there are classes where you can build a front running race for 10k my car until this year only had about 3k in the build and had less then what it could have as a chump car beside the tires and i was in the top 10 in a class of 25. slow is relative because my slow car runs times faster then the fastest chump car did at PIR this year. also i can build what my car is for less then some of the chump cars have paid to build there 500$ car. yes speed cost money if you want to be the fastest in any group you will need to spend money because even the slowest group has classes that are faster then the fastest chump or lemons cars. yes i like the chump and lemons event ive helped or drove in. on the class of drivers the teams of people who know what they are doing are up front because they are better drivers. the event i drove in i was not in the fastest car but put down the 2nd fastest lap a car i pass on my fast lap followed me and put down a lap .1 faster then me. I was more scared around cars with them then i am with ICSCC or scca races because of predictability just not there yet in those groups. also cheating is starting to run rampant at the chump and lemons races. people are motor swaping motors you cant buy at junk yards for 500$ then rebuilding them. how about some cars being let in because they havent finished yet so they dont care. im going to stop now to many things in my head at once.