HANS, SCCA and the recent SFI money grab. (Link to another forum)

colin_koehler

Great SCOTT!
Not everyone here is a member of the Sandbox but this was interesting thread to read.

I don't think there's any wonder why we've seen more #700 number drivers and we'll probably see an increase next year if SFI and SCCA keep going down this road.



-Colin, who's not a fan of the SFI.
 
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You don't suppose that this might not come up as a topic in the next season's slurry of regulation change proposals (if not amended to this years), do you?

Hit the books guys, the writing's on the... pages.
 
From the Hans clarification to dealers:

"Competitors may use an FIA certified Head and Neck Restraint at an FIA event in the U.S. without meeting the SFI’s recertification requirement. But events not on the FIA sporting calendar and held in the U.S. will require an SFI 38.1 sticker for any device 5 years or older."

Lolz.?
 
We use either SFI or FIA ratings on harnesses. For head-and-neck restraints, we have the following:
The use of head and neck support system meeting SFI38.1 or FIA 8858 standards is highly recommended. (Spring 2011)

This is 1105.H from the Competition Rules.
 
Well, that's CLASSIC SFI stuff there..... LOL

The "world leader" in head neck restraints HANS never dreamed of such a thing. But SFI finds a way to s _ r_w the racer once again. This is truly reaching the point of NUTS!

Per the page and the HANS statement above, it looks like if your event is NOT on the FIA calander you 'gotta have' an SFI certified H&N device requireing 5 year recret....

NUTS!

Some day some club will come to their senses. Just say ALL equipment must be FIA certified to whatever testing they use and s_r_w SFI back. Let them take care of their drag racers and leave the road racers to common sense.
 
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I've heard (more than once, and not just on that thread Colin linked to) that Hubbard-Downing really pushed for the SFI spec. And, as we all (should) know, SFI is NOT a safety organization in the commonly accepted measure of the term, no matter what they'll tell you.
 
You mean that SFI is a FWIW label on stuff it intimate some quality in manufacture?

All is well in Conference-land until 1105 H gets changed to a mandated use of head and neck devices, I suppose. And I don't see that on the list of changes, so it's not to far of a stretch at all, to expect an influx of some '700' club numbers on the entry lists.
 
I'll admit it... Conference's rule is why I'm here. I'm not anti hnr, I'm anti SFI....
For total transparency, I've owned and SFO approved HANs for years now...

Marcus (who is on RRAX)
 
Whaaatt??? Is there some insinuation here that SFI specs somehow have a profit motive? NOOO!!! IMPOSSIBLE! The only safe thing to do is to replace everything, belts, helmets, driving suits, cars, transporters, kids, wifes, etc... at every race. Then we will be perfectly safe and we will all have butterflies and sunshine flowing out our butts and the world will be so wonderful.
 
I just checked my HANS. It was built in Sep 2006 and has both FIA and SFI stickers on it.

So, if Conference makes all their 2012 races actual FIA events*, I'm good! :D


* FIA events require umbrella girls, the wearing of Prada clothing, using only the Metric system, and speaking with a French accent. So we have our work cut out for us this winter.
 
Last year one of our members, who will remain nameless, wrote to SFI to inquire about their belt certification procedure. They wrote back with a demand that if the SFI certification wording appeared in our rule book that we would have pay a large fee ($1500?). If memory serves me right and to make a long story short Conference had to pay $150. We had a lot of fun with that member.
 
Before you guys round up the posse please consider a couple important facts. For $800 my HANS has saved me from serious injury or death 3 times. If you race long enough your number will come up and for your sake I really hope you have a HANS in good working order. The requirement to have such an effective and relatively inexpensive piece of safety equipment checked out every 5 years is not a conspiracy. Call HANS toll free and talk to them 1-888-hans-999. The tethers and helmet studs do not last forever. If you have had an impact your device could be less effective than it was when new. For $15 plus shipping they will inspect and recertify your HANS. I don't think at that price they are trying to get rich. If you need new tethers etc. there will be a charge but so what.
 
Hello,

Just a reminder, when I was doing Tech at ORP and PIR this year, there were a lot of Helmets with SFI 2000 stickers.

Those will not be compliant for 2012.

So when you are getting your new head and neck devices, check you helmet too...

John Rissberger
# 10 Camaro A/S
ICSCC & SCCA
 
Before you guys round up the posse please consider a couple important facts. For $800 my HANS has saved me from serious injury or death 3 times. If you race long enough your number will come up and for your sake I really hope you have a HANS in good working order. The requirement to have such an effective and relatively inexpensive piece of safety equipment checked out every 5 years is not a conspiracy. Call HANS toll free and talk to them 1-888-hans-999. The tethers and helmet studs do not last forever. If you have had an impact your device could be less effective than it was when new. For $15 plus shipping they will inspect and recertify your HANS. I don't think at that price they are trying to get rich. If you need new tethers etc. there will be a charge but so what.

Ken, I don't think you have to convince anyone here that keeping your H&N safe is a good thing. That's not the issue. The issue is that this money grab actually forces many SCCA racers to be LESS SAFE than what they want to be as many believe that HANS is not the safest option on the market for their H&N needs.

It is a money grab because SCCA was motivated by HANS to pass off H&N responsibility to SFI's certification process which produced the 38.1 certification that SCCA made mandatory. This limits drivers options for H&N devices and there are better options than a HANS devices for the purposes of H&N safety that are no longer allowed due to this SCCA 38.1 SFI adoption. This also helped HANS remove DefNder from the marketplace. Immediately after the adoption by SCCA, THEN the SFI turns around and dictates this 5 year rule. Really? 5 years for a rigid, non-moveable, non-stressed device? SCCA could have just ruled, any driver involved in a serious wreck must have H&N device re certified.

It's just as bad as the 2 year rule for seatbelts that NEVER see salt water and only see UV light for a total sum of a few minutes out of every year.

Ken Shreve said:
For $800 my HANS has saved me from serious injury or death 3 times.

And for an equal or in some cases half the cost there's 3+ other devices that would have done the same... but thanks to the SFI/SCCA/HANS money grab, many SCCA racers won't be able to use what they feel will allow them to be SAFER than what is being mandated.
 
Colin, I paid $800 for my HANS in 2006. The starting price is now $495. What can you buy for $247.50 that is as good? Is it your opinion there are better options out there or do you have scientific proof. I have real life experience that the HANS works. If you want to experiment with other products be my guest. Darwin was right.
 
Does anyne know what the test/inspection involves. Sounds as if SCCA is just trying to assure that there is outside (non-SCCA) inspection and certification........otherwise if something goes pear shaped their members get to wear it sort of speak. Liability rather than profit would seem to be the motive here.
 
From what I understand, yes, Greg, SCCA is trying to push liability risk onto something outside SCCA. The problem, if the stories are to be believed, is that A) Hubbard/Downing pushed for the SFI 38.1 spec and B) SFI is not a safety organization. If you put on your skeptic's goggles and think about A and B, it looks like it's more about revenue streams than a measurable safety issue.

I'm a big believer in my HANS and what my doctor and I both think it did for me back in 2005. If you're in any kind of impact, you should at least replace the tethers (along with your harness) and probably get the collar itself inspected. Otherwise... like Colin says, it's hard to imagine that a non-moving, non-stressed, non-fire-resistant piece of equipment really requires inspection in anything approaching a short-term timeline.
 
Colin, I paid $800 for my HANS in 2006. The starting price is now $495. What can you buy for $247.50 that is as good? Is it your opinion there are better options out there or do you have scientific proof. I have real life experience that the HANS works. If you want to experiment with other products be my guest. Darwin was right.

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