Post season race schedule assessment

Comments for the year, eh?

* I like double races -- even though the group2 qualify looks like a race sometimes.
* I went to the Spokane race because it was a triple. If it was a double I might not have gone.
* ORP is a long haul. They might have to make that a triple for me to go. But I do like that track -- a lot.
* I hate back to back weekends. Won't do it.
* We have to figure out a way to make the Ridge capable of having races without it drawing down PR. If we need to create a dummy corporation to do it with pilfered funds, fine. Call it IRDC-II. But I want to go to the Ridge two to three times and to PR at least that often.
* As to the Japanese race, it's great fun and I plan on going, but my car can't win the current classification breakout. Having cars as fast as Gary's RX come around a view-blocking Miata almost didn't turn out well. I think it's too big a speed difference considering the only time there is normally that difference is when my fuel pump dies and I'm coasting. Yeah, like in the Japanese race. Might have to consider a power to weight classification.
*Should consider a sign up for paddock spaces at all tracks. Every other space I see at PIR has a cone/tire/dead body in it saving it for someone else. Then if I try to keep the Pro-7s together using the exact same tactic I get dirty looks and comments. We already allow it -- now just codify it. Mission was great. I knew where I was to park and knew my space allocation.

As an aside, Thanks to Mike Stimson for saving my race by loaning me a fuel pump. New and in the box! That's why I love racing.
Check's in the mail (someday I'll actually carry money again).

I love racing.

I LOVED the Triple and the car was doubled entered on 2 days which means my little CRX did 5 races that weekend. I think it spent more time on the track at Spokane than it did during the 4 hour enduro and it was cheaper! WTF is up with that! :tongue:

On a serious note I will second some thoughts of the others.

1: Back 2 Back's are hard and trying to put together a championship with B2B's is harder but if it has to be done, so be it.
2: I love doubles and the triple was terrific but bring a pit crew.
3: If we only had single races I'd still be fine because I can double enter, many of us can. However, double entering on a double/triple weekend is hard on everyone and everything. While I haven't delved into the numbers I suspect that if I did I would find the double entries were down on double/triple race weekends.
4: Being Single entered on a Single race weekend is "refreshing"... I find myself with more time to just *enjoy the weekend* and once this year was actually bored, staring at the car trying to think of things to do to keep busy.

I agree with both sides, less is good, and more is good. I'm torn.

colin_koehler said:

4: Being Single entered on a Single race weekend is "refreshing"... I find myself with more time to just *enjoy the weekend* and once this year was actually bored, staring at the car trying to think of things to do to keep busy.

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Yes, exactly. Some of us have no choice, and it stops being refreshing after about 1 weekend of staring at the car

On the other hand, scrambling to get things together on a tight schedule is not fun either. There's a balance we need to find with our schedule.
(Even on single weekends, I find that I'm rarely twiddling my thumbs.--Although the difference in the amount of twiddling on a single or a double is not much.)

Possible suggestions for time use when all is going well:
Find someone who is scrambling and help them.
Socialize--especially, find a novice or non-Conference driver and make them feel welcome.
Go over the track map with someone who's never been there.
Write down a potential rule change so you'll have a 2nd class you can enter...

Good discussion - to answer Ken's post above:

We definitely want to hear from our volunteers, because they are one of the big reasons we are asking for input on this question. Sure, we worry about the sheer number of events and effort required for our drivers, but we are even more worried about the load we are placing on our great volunteers. As a club officer working to put on quality races for the members I get a great opportunity to talk with our hard working and indespensable volunteers all the time. Speaking with them you find out that many of our volunteers work for SEVERAL clubs. You think 15 races is a lot for our drivers? Some of the volunteers work two or three times that many! Your input is great Ken, we want to hear which way is easiest for you guys.

As to the Ridge - the way that Conference is set up is Member Clubs (the ones that put on races and consequently hold voting postions on the e-board) are assigned geographic areas of operation. Any track that falls within the IRDC's region which is pretty much Western Washington falls within IRDC's control at least as far as Conference races are concerned. For some pretty obvious reasons, another Conference club cannot operate within IRDC's territory in competition with them, unless given some specific permission by the IRDC.

IRDC is currently in the process of reviewing their options with both tracks and expects to have a schedule to present to the membership at the Fall ICSCC meetings. COunt yourself lucky folks - there are lots of places in the US that are a long ways from a decent roadcourse. We have five great tracks with a sixth dynamic new track about to appear on the scene - it's an "embarrassment of riches".

Let me just take the time to say: Thanks to everyone for their support this year, from drivers who supported us with their entries to the volunteers who made it all happen. Looking forward to a great racing season next year!

Rick Bostrom
In the waning moments of being IRDC President

My thoughts in order of priority:
1) No back to back race weekends. They are a grind for drivers, crew, workers, etc. and reduce participation.
2) Fewer race weekends, but more double and triple races - they are way more bang for the buck. This would also open up space for the Ridge.
3) Special races are good and create a unique focus on the special group - but I don't think they work as well on a double or triple weekends as everyone is already busy.
My two cents.

As a conference driver for 19 years now, the past coulple of years i have raced in the FF festival put on by Sovren. They Prac/Qual Sat. morn to set the grid then every session after that is a race. your finishing postion is your starting position for the next race. The most fun ive ever had. we had 5 races over Labor day weekend.
Talk about do this dont do that until 2 or 3 weekends in. It doesnt really matter. If you change the format its the same for everybody. you just get used to it. But i will say there was 7 ICSCC Formula Ford drivers at this event and they all thought it was a better format than ICSCC.

Stuart

How about Saturday AM quali, PM Championship Race, Sunday AM Sprint Race, Sunday PM Sprint race, with a mixed group warm-up on Sunday AM if time allows. Grid positions set by finish position. I am with you more racing, less practice and quali. It also makes more sense to run races if we are trying to get paying spectators through the gate.

With a Championship/Sprint race format and a season ending International Championship Race (say somewhere dry in late Sept, open to all racers ICSCC, SCCA etc.) we could have a Triple Crown (Class Championship, Sprint Champion, International Championship Race Winner). Sprint Championship points could even, dare I say it, be based on the number of cars in class.

As it is now the rules require a minimum 10 minute practice and 2 quali sessions before a Championship Race can be held so this is just so much air.

Randy

Eleven weekends is more than I can run. We did 5 ICSCC weekends (8 races), 2 Chump Car (3 races), 1 SCCA (2 races), 1 SOVREN (3 races) and 2 test days and we were done. Five of the 9 weekends were multiple races (doubles or triples). You could say I voted with my wallet for multiple race weekends. That said even if IRDC and Cascade decided to run doubles we would still be looking at 9 weekends. Only way I can see to get it down further is to limit each club to 2 Championship Races, not that I am advocating this as a solution.

I am not familiar enough with the racer demographics outside of NWMS to speak with authority, but it seems to me that the number of race weekends a club decides to have should be based on who is coming to the race, which is directly related to the club's ability to operate in the black. So if a club (_______) has a large enough number of local racers to support 3 single events per year so be it. On the other hand if a club (_______) must attract out of town racers with multiple race weekends and the lowest cost track time in the Northwest so be it.

Thinking outside of the box what I would like to see is each club hosting a major (200 plus entry) race each season and the races that are already above or close to the 200 mark going over 300, because events with lots of cars are just more fun. So I would suggest that each club should be allowed to designate one double points race per year, with a maximum of 3 double points races to be applied to year end Championships.

So to summarize:

1) more racing less quali and practice (need rule change for this)

2) add sprint race championship and award points based on size of field

3) add year end International Championship Race

4) continue 3 championship race per club format

5) allow each club one double points race per year

6) 11 weekends is to many for me (over 6000 miles of towing)

SCCA soon to be convert opinion

Lots of good sharing here for those that are in need of the opinions. I'll give you mine as I think many are in my boat.

First a bit about my 2011 race season... It starts with needing to repair a bent frame 944 from last year. (damn miatas ). So I was already on a tight budget, but we also decided to build/buy a new house and of course we had our first child (my son Forest) in January. So this was certainly the year to test the budget.

Second our 944 schedule. Although we attended two ICSCC race weekends in 2010 as points for our internal championship we were unable to move most of our schedule to conference. I started the year off in May @ PR for a double weekend. Followed by Rose Cup in June with SCCA... (two weekends, three total races).

Now after both of those weekends I made the decision to focus only on conference (hoping all my 944 buddies joined me). Now I went to Spokane last year so I HAD to go this year for the triple. I even double entered (sorry about entering EP as a 2nd run group but I wanted to run with the ITX guys) so I got 6 races in one weekend. Then I did the GTCC weekend and double entered there as well... And finally made the frank Manley memorial as my 5th weekend but 12th race.

I focused on seat time and budget this year. Since I live in snoqualmie, PR is great for me + Im new to this coast so all tracks are new to me.




Next year I will be completely ICSCC as a member, my license and I need to find some stickers for my car. I'm very eager to hear about our 2nd run group [ITX] as to me that solves any non double/triple weekend and in most cases makes for a QUAD [4X] race weekend! In addition will help us grow our field of 944s since they are equally as cheap, fun and competitive as some other popular chassis' but held back by ease of multiple & competitive entries.

I think all the replies have covered a ton of angles although I will share a few points that I am most in favor of but like all of us... I am very thankful to all who make these weekends happen!



* I Love the sprint race for qualifying position...

SCCA has a good model for these and another quick race can just make it fun. I do understand the extra time or prep needed to grid them but one thing that these are great for is our novices. They/we need most practice with the starts as those first few turns are the most intense part. points or no points, qualifying place or not.. I think this has win all over it. Heck go crazy and invert the grids for extra excitement & fun.


* I like the special races (done both gtcc's) but wouldn't miss them if they left.
I see the same cars during the race that can be found in G2/G5 and would rather spend that $$ on a full 2nd entry.


* I have never done a test n tune.


* back to back weekends make folks choose which one...dilutes the grids overall.


* enduro or mini enduro concepts sound like fun, but not sure the attendance with exceed special races. I prefer those as they are today (seperate from normal weekends).



2012 will be a great year... The ridge looks awesome, all the continued revisions this group does to keep refining every aspect of conference is even better.

Thanks for two great years thus far and thanks to all the new friends I have made on here or at the track.


Mike A
#799 Porsche 944. [soon to drop the 7]


*

I can't speak for the individual drivers, but PRO3 as a group qualify for a maximum of two Toyo Bucks payouts per race weekend. With the PRO3 grids continuing to grow, a double race weekend can really mean a lot of additional Toyo Bucks going back to the drivers. "Special" races count too, so long as PRO3 shows up as it's own class. So for example the German Touring Car Challenge have been nice enough to break out PRO3 as a class in that race so we qualify for a second race for that Car Tender race weekend in Seattle.

The Toyo Bucks payout per race in 2011 was:

Entries Total Payout per Race
1-5: $160
6-10: $320
11-15: $480
16-20: $640
21-24: $800
25+: $1,000

In 2011 Toyo Tires paid out $12,360 to the drivers of PRO3.

As one who survived a 25 race weekend season in 1993, I don't like back to back weekends. I remember when Westwood shut down and Olympia closed its doors. We only had PIR and PR for tracks. We went to 4 races per track. Now with 5 tracks online and another one coming it is time to cut down to two races per track. I know that is hard to schedule around other tracks and races. How about a championship requirement that requires one race at each track? That way we spread the wealth. G

Food for thought:
Some of the clubs may need to have 3 points events to make it financially, especially the distance events?
Back to back weekends should probably be avoided if they can be? ( I know...scheduling is tough we are not first pick always)

Posters with ideas and opinions.....you need to make these heard at YOUR CLUB MEETING. As Steve Adams stated, forum posters and readers are a very small minority of the conference membership.

Did you know that one of the largest clubs in Conferance is run by pretty much 11 people, and that the membership meetings rarely generate more then 20 people except for rule vote meetings. Complain all you want about the schedule but if your not participating at the meetings in person you not part of the solution your actually part of the ......

Just sayin

(Yea I know I did not race this year, maybe won't in 2012 but I did attend 1/2 of my clubs meetings.)

Scott Norton said:

Did you know that one of the largest clubs in Conferance is run by pretty much 11 people, and that the membership meetings rarely generate more then 20 people except for rule vote meetings. Complain all you want about the schedule but if your not participating at the meetings in person you not part of the solution your actually part of the ......

Just sayin

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Pretty much sums it up.

"Did you know that one of the largest clubs in Conference is run by pretty much 11 people, and that the membership meetings rarely generate more then 20 people except for rule vote meetings."

That is most certainly an historical fact. But too, where this forum's appearance of participation may be limited to those contributors, and the many lurkers that we know are out there, but not logging in, one may usually get through a complete thought. Thus avoiding those inevitable interruptions that convolute the original point with the simple misunderstanding of a word. Then to transmorgifying the original idea into some multi-agenda cross-talk via a voice filled room.

Then the loudspeaker calls your order number...

Here at least, is a semi-permanent record of some complete, equally FWIW, thought processes. I find it more satisfying to throw out the seeds, and let the winds of social interaction spread them around, and fertilize them into fruition, or equally fall on deaf ears as the case may be.

And the meeting minutes read, "------ was discussed."

But part of the problem? Not in regards to setting an amiable schedule. BoD, or Race Chairman, or whomever can only fill out the application for dates for their particular facilities. Then the management of those facilities that will ultimately decide our season's scheduling. So a good relationship with those folks that control the fate of our schedule is the operational imperitive in those lines. It pays to get in line early too.

What is done with the time that we are given, at the price that is asked for those services is really the only variable in regards to each clubs' ability to survive. Fall meeting fodder. More DT/HPDEs to enhance revenues that may be lost from a revenue gernerating, but slightly more costly Championship points events?

And the never ending question that is faced by our clubs each season in regards to what is to be charged for their own services to the driver-entrants. Some clubs will set up a solid "go with it" entry fee for the year, and take whatever comes (guts), or choose to agonize over it with each event budget for that closer, control by committee affect (tip-toe).

greg_coffin said:

.......How about Saturday AM quali, PM Championship Race, Sunday AM Sprint Race, Sunday PM Sprint race, with a mixed group warm-up on Sunday AM if time allows.....

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Wes T. Ken K and I promoted that concept about 3 or 4 years ago. Including posting potential weekend schedule options on the Forum for discussion. Got NO serious interest but now, it may be the time.

I've been pitching the double race week-end format for many years, but people always had objections. We came much closer this season with numerous doubles and the awesome triple at Spokane, so finally we're getting somewhere. More racing and less qualifying has also been brought up frequently over the years, but now with the doubles it is clear how much more fun it is to race than qualify. The SCCA or Sovren format of more races, albiet a little shorter, can work for us as well.
Non - championship events have suffered in the past because of the expense without the points, so I doubt that idea would prove beneficial to the clubs. Oh, and BTW, we pushed this hard last year because our worker/volunteers seemed to favor fewer week-ends even if it meant longer days. Our loyal worker core is no younger than our driver base, so we need to make this work for both parties.
I agree that back-to-back events are not popular, but that issue is unfortunately dictated by the tracks and can't be avoided some years. Bottom line - less travel, more racing!

westipton said:

Our loyal worker core is no younger than our driver base, so we need to make this work for both parties.
Bottom line - less travel, more racing!

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Now you have me wondering. What is the average age of the drivers? What is the average age of the workers? None of us is getting any younger.

Driver average - old. Worker average - old...

Just throwing this format out there:

Sat AM: practice
Sat PM: qualifying

Sun AM: race 1
Sun PM: race 2

Invert the grid for race 2 from the finishing position of race 1. Then you award points based on the current points format for both races and (option 1) average the 2 finishes to come up with points for the weekend, or (option 2) award points based on the better of the 2 race finishes from the weekend. Just throwing it out there..

Keep throwing Ryan. We could adopt either SCCA or Sovren formats, but either is preferable to our current system.