Group 3 and 6 increase participation

greg_coffin

Well-known member
Here are a few ideas to increase participation in groups 3 and 6 in no specific order:

1. Create a mechanism so 3 & 6 can benefit from the 2nd car discount afforded the other groups, for example every other race entry with a given club could be at the second car rate.

2. Discount the entry fees for new group 3 & 6 racers or those who have been dormant in Conference Racing for a few years.

3. Allow 3 & 6 to run together in practice and/or quali 1 to increase their track time at each event.

4. Include first year club membership and/or race license for free to any non-conference racers who cross over to us.

5. Each club could designate an event as a double race group 3 & 6 weekend where the groups are combined for both of their respective races (perhaps with a split start). Basically that’s two races for the price of one.

All of the above are incentives to increase participation and have little or no effect on other race groups.

Let's all pull together to get some more positive ideas to increase numbers
 
1) Create a mechanism so 3 & 6 can benefit from the 2nd car discount afforded the other groups, for example every other race entry with a given club could be at the second car rate.

Is a few dollars really what is keeping people from racing in open wheel groups? If alternating races gave the second race discount that would equal $135 every two races, or $67.50 per race. I would argue that if that amount of money decides whether someone is going to attend a race or not they probably aren't a sustainable entry going forward. Maybe a little harsh, but true none the less. Add to that the fact that discounting race entries in this way will probably not increase participation very much and make the dollars per minute of track time equation look even worse for those groups. As an alternative, I have always completely in favor of anyone forwarding a rule change that would have insured that any car entered in either Group 3 or 6 had a place to run in the other group ala Formula Libra. While I think most would not have taken the opportunity to run a second group on the week-end, I think it would have made it possible for a car owner to rent their car for the other class without having to sacrifice their own race to do it. One of the best ways that groups like Pro3 have been able to bring people into their class is by renting the cars in Group 5 and for the Novice program. I think that has more potential to bring converts than just about any other form of recruitment. I realize there are also maintainence and durability issues to consider, but a lot of rented cars of all types have the same issues.

2. Discount the entry fees for new group 3 & 6 racers or those who have been dormant in Conference Racing for a few years.

What are we saying to the racers, OW and CW alike that have supported us during all of this time? I would be more likely to offer a discount for every race someone enters above 8 or 10 to reward those who routinely support us race after race, year after year. As my sales manager used to say - "If you are trying to train behavior using incentives always make sure you reward people for doing what you want, not for doing what you don't want."

3. Allow 3 & 6 to run together in practice and/or quali 1 to increase their track time at each event.

This could have some merit. As long as it doesn't cause nightmares for timing and scoring who are usually trying to get everyone sorted out during these sessions. Car counts are generally low enough that it should be no problem to fit everybody into the extra sessions on Saturday. Will this increase counts? Again, I'm not sure that some extra minutes vs dollars is the actual root cause of low turnout. I know that SCCA Oregon Region offers 30 min. practice, 20 min qualify, and 30 min race for $315 entry if I am not mistaken. We offered 15 min practice, 15 min qualify, 20 qualify and 30 min race at our last IRDC race for $285. Same time for less money - do they do better on OW counts than we do? If so it obviously isn't because it is a few bucks cheaper or they get more time.

4. Include first year club membership and/or race license for free to any non-conference racers who cross over to us.

Not a bad idea, and something that we would definitely consider (speaking only for an IRDC club license of course!). Can't very well claim $67.50 is not very much money above and then claim that $60 for an IRDC membership is! If we could entice folks over for what I feel is a superior racing experience with friendly welcoming people by dangling a free membership, I would be pretty open to taking that to the IRDC Board. The only issue with that would be someone might join becasuse it was free and then never actually come race with us - the concept of "I didn't pay anything for it, so it doesn't really lose any value if I don't use it." For any serious consideration, a solution has to convince people that it will create additional entries, period. The downside of issuing a free Conference license is even worse. There are administrative costs to consider, and then they can use that license to race elsewhere by reciprocity. As usual the "law of unintended consequences" could actually increase counts for other organizations that accept our license!

5. Each club could designate an event as a double race group 3 & 6 weekend where the groups are combined for both of their respective races (perhaps with a split start). Basically that’s two races for the price of one.

EXACTLY! It's two races for the price of one. We collect potentially half of the entries in groups that are already under scrutiny for not covering the cost of their track time. In order to pay for itself, it would have to create an additional paid entry for every car that runs both groups. What all the groups, CW and OW alike, need to do is keep the number of PAID entries up. I was lucky enough to get to run the NOS Stock Car Road Course Challenge last year at Pacific Raceways. When all was said and done, I won almost enough purse money to pay for my entry and expenses for the week-end. I, and most of those that I know who attended, said we would attend that kind of race as often as it is held! The point of that example is that if you offer things that cost you money to people for free they are very likely to take them. When you want to get them to start paying for them, they often are a lot less interested. How do we then transition that to getting those groups full enough of PAYING customers to make them viable. If we do that for a race, or two, is the intention that the new entrants who take part will have had a chance to see how great the people and the racing is and be willing to join us under the same rules as everyone else or are we on the hook for groups that have increased on track counts but no increase in revenues forever?

To conclude - Im just applying some accumulated business sense to the ideas that I saw and these are just my observations - please don't take them as being overly negative. Mr Coffin - you are to be commended for taking an active step towards trying to hash out some sort of plan to increase participation and that is in everyone's best interest. I think someone should have gotten a rule change through that allowed ALL OW cars the opportunity to run in the other OW group so a second entry was available to everyone. It may be too late for that as the numbers have fallen to the point where consolidation is almost certainly on the books for the Fall E-Board meeting. I would also entertain the possibility of an OW Special Race Group at one of our IRDC races as a way to get the right group from another organization out to sample our product and help build numbers.

Please keep brainstorming everyone! Hopefully there are more good ideas out there.
 
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Greg,

Thanks for starting this thread. Increasing participation in group 3 & 6 falls back on us who run in these two groups. I'm going to make an assumption and say we who run in these groups have friends or acquaintances who have cars that can run in group 3 or 6. If each of us can get one more car out then that's a start. I am working on getting the other 4 FSV's in the area to run at least one conference race this year. All four drivers hold a regional or national SCCA license and run SCCA events. One of the issues is trying to squeeze the third digit on to an open wheel car when you don't have a conference license. You have to renumber the car each time you want to run a conference event.

Tim Bland
84 Anson SA4
Group 3
 
Rick

Thanks for the comments.

I rather doubt that anyone will be lining up with many more ideas after reading yours regarding my suggestions lol

Do you have so more ideas to get participation up?

Also with respect to suggestion 5 all I am saying is that for one race a season a club could allow group 3 and 6 cars to race in class for points in each others already scheduled race (just the race). This makes the weekend a double race, takes time from no one and could attract larger fields.

I have some more comments on comments but that is really not the point of this post mate, it is to float as many ideas as possible.

......oh nooooo the Guiness is starting to talk......must log offf......offffffffff

lets get some ideas out there
 
And that is what I think it will ultimately come down to as far as rebuilding the numbers in those classes - guys who get out there and "sell" Conference races to people who aren't already racing with us. As I said, I think Greg and Tim are to be commended for actively doing the gruntwork of trying to get cars out to race. You have some good company - I know there are other OW guys out there making similar pitches and the sports racer contingent is always recruiting.

As I said, I really don't want it to seem like I'm against the recovery of the OW groups - nothing could be further from the truth as I like purpose built race cars and would like to see full grids for a lot of reasons both personal and official. I hate that some of it comes across as negative, but we were trying to come up with solutions to the problem 4 or 5 years ago. Now consolidation has been discussed and has been waiting in the wings for at least 3. We are definitely down to having to deal with it from a results based perspective. The clubs can't just afford to throw money at the problem and entice cars out of their garages with freebies. Nothing is ever truly free and everything we give away to try to get the numbers up is ultimately not free at all, but paid for by the people who actually support our races with their entries.

Maybe you can help me with a few things, because if I had some reason to not race with Conference anymore (which I don't!) I would still get my car out and race with somebody! Are the OW cars that aren't coming out and supporting us running with someone else or just not running? Is this about the previous pool of OW racers going elsewhere because they are unhappy with the value they get at Conference races or are they just not racing at all? Have they lost the will, the desire, or the finances or are they just pissed about something? In a lot of ways it would be better if they were pissed because we would have a fair chance at winning them back with some kind of different behavior. If, on the other hand, they have just retired from racing or lost the desire to prep a car, or are just so economically impacted that they can no longer afford to race then we just aren't going to get those back quickly if at all. That will have to be addressed by replacing them with new OW drivers which likely means that we are looking at younger drivers and different cars than have been the mainstays in the past and a whole lot of dedicated recruiting.

Just rambling, keep up the good work recruiting because that approach is more likely to bring new entries than all of the other suggestions combined! IMHO of course.
 
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Participation is the question in Groups 3 and 6. So you drivers in these groups sign in please?

Contact your run group mates and have them sign up or sign them up with the information requested.
You guys are a tight knit group and all know each other so this should be easy.

Name
Group
Tentative Race Schedule for this year

I am willing to try to help brainstorm.
Let's see who we have and what we have to work with?
 
I think these things go in and out of "fashion".. Open wheelin' hasn't been trendy for a while, and we're suffering for it. I was going through some results sheets yesterday and looking at the closed wheel races, what would have happened to conference if Pro3 hadn't become so popular? It seemed like the vaaaaast majority of cars in conference weekends are e30's, with a handful of miatas here and there. Sure, if Pro3 wasn't around, they'd probably be driving something else - most likely a spec miata, I guess. My point is, all of us in open wheel classes are both unlucky and guilty that there isn't an open wheel class with the same draw as Pro3. If there weren't any Pro3 cars running, maybe we would be having the same discussion about the bunch of CW classes that have 1 or 2 cars show up every weekend..

I agree with Rick though that recruiting, by word of mouth and by making Conference OW races attractive and accessible, is the only solution. If you look at FV up here in BC, you'll see what a little (ok, a lot!) of work and dedication will do for the class. Bob, Pam, Scott, Jennifer and everyone else in the F.A.R.T. group have, almost to their exclusive credit, doubled the number of entries in FV. I was just going through the race results at Mission and before 2009, they were lucky to get 3 FV's in the same race. Seems like a couple events a year had 4 cars.. In 2010, we had an average of 9 vees per weekend.. May not seem like much compared to the Pro3 guys, but I think it may well be the best attended class in SCCBC racing currently! And seeing all of us battling it out on the track seems to have done the trick as more vees are being prepped this winter, new drivers getting into it, older drivers coming back or switching classes to FV, and apparently a couple full season rentals with the FART guys.

I think 2011 will be a great year for open wheel racing in BC and I can only hope that some of this success will spread to the rest of the PNW. I plan to do a couple races at PR and ORP this season and I'm sure more of us will head down this year too.
 
I agree with Rick though that recruiting, by word of mouth and by making Conference OW races attractive and accessible, is the only solution. If you look at FV up here in BC, you'll see what a little (ok, a lot!) of work and dedication will do for the class. Bob, Pam, Scott, Jennifer and everyone else in the F.A.R.T. group have, almost to their exclusive credit, doubled the number of entries in FV. I was just going through the race results at Mission and before 2009, they were lucky to get 3 FV's in the same race. Seems like a couple events a year had 4 cars.. In 2010, we had an average of 9 vees per weekend.. May not seem like much compared to the Pro3 guys, but I think it may well be the best attended class in SCCBC racing currently!

I think the FV guys in BC are a lot more like Pro3 than you think. The numbers are different, but I know that when I come to Mission, I'm thinking about two things - concrete walls, and seeing FV's. In my mind, FV's are a notable part of BC racing.

You hit the nail on the head, though. You need to figure out how to duplicate that effort in the states, and in other OW classes.

Dan
 
..... to their exclusive credit, doubled the number of entries in FV. I was just going through the race results at Mission and before 2009, they were lucky to get 3 FV's in the same race. Seems like a couple events a year had 4 cars.. In 2010, we had an average of 9 vees per weekend...

ICSCC 'used to' have a nice PACK of FV's. But then, with the wisdom of the many over riding the needs of the few, FV's were moved from Group 3 to Group 6 and.... OFF THEY WENT to race in SCCA all the way down to California.

Be careful with this or, you may just provide NASA with the opening they need to expand in to this market with a good open wheel program.
 
Actually, that's a good point.. Why were the FV's moved to Group 6 in the first place?

I have my doubts that NASA wants to get involved with open wheelers.. At least in the current state of things. There are other groups elsewhere that seem to be running their own events though, right?
 
Rick knows that a lot of us, including me have been trying for a few yers now to get cars back out for 3 and 6. Emails are being exchanged regularly and I had high hopes for last year, until the economy crumbled.
We've known for a few yaers now that group 6 is being eyeballed for CW and I'm sure the people behind that have the proposal all written for this falls meeting, so there isn't much we can do this year if it's already a foregone conclusion, which it appears to be.
Thinking positively Greg, I would see no reason why we couldn't combine 3&6 for both practice and qualifying, which would free up valuable track time and perhaps make those who count pennies vs. laps a bit happier.
When I ran FV in the late 70's we had anywhere from 18 to 25 cars at pretty much every SIR and PIR event, and the Fords fields were just as big most of the time. For some reason purpose built race cars have been passed over for spec classes in the last decade. Why I couldn't tell you, but I guess sadly that's the wave of the future. If drivers would give them a try they'd understand why we love it so much, but I have had little luck actually getting anyone into my car for a playday or a race week-end.
If the majority of Conference is content with basically a NASA style all CW series then it will probably happen, but I'm giving up just yet.
 
If drivers would give them a try they'd understand why we love it so much

Exactly! And I think that's what the F.A.R.T. guys did perfectly, they provided the perfect opportunity for people to try open wheelers and get hooked. I did my driver training and was still unsure if I wanted to go balls to the wall into the racing thing, so decided I would just "take it easy" and rent a car.. Their FV's are probably the cheapest rentals around, they have the best looking paddock spot and the whole thing just looks professional (or you know, as close as it gets for club racing!). It may also help that they're a funny bunch.

Down in the states though, it'll probably be a bit harder. We didn't have to compete against such a strong group of spec cars.. Will a 10 car count in FV mean much to a kid watching in the stands if there's another class with 30 cars bumping each other?
 
As I am seriously looking into an OW I'd take you up on some seat time next time you are at PIR Wes. I hope to be able to get one this year. Shopping now.
 
kyle

Depending on what my son decides to do this race season my old car (Swift DB-3 FF2000) could be available for a reasonable rate at Spokane for one or more races.

Greg
 
I disagree - 9 or 10 FV's would make a huge difference. That would double the participation on some week-ends! When I started racing FV on paper was about the closest, most cost effective way to go racing available. I seriously considered it at the time. And jutsd after that, it started a sharp decline in the area that it never recovered from. As for the kid in the stands watching? When I was a kid and I came out and watched the tight racing in FF and FV was some of the most entertaining. Bring it on - wwould love to see more of it!

Why was FV moved from Group 3 to Group 6? Can't blame the sedans for that one! My understanding is that our strong Club Ford group with it's millimeter close draft and pass racing and our FV group with a different speed but similarly millimeter close draft and pass racing didn't play well together. Both said the other broke up their conga lines and messed up their races. Kinda like us Stock Cars punching holes like buckshot through the Pro3 geese although we have learned to embrace mixed class racing and share great camraderie with our Pro3 brethren. We try to be respectful of their race and try to affect it minimally, and they do the same. But has it added to my racecraft? If I can make a corner and clear a Pro3 car and trap my competitor behind that is a skill all unto itself.

This leads to the unsolvable problem. Every time a reorganization of groups and classes occurs somebody ends up unhappy. Nobody WANTS to cause friction but we have to try to find a place for everybody to race! Gotta make space available to those at the track with cars waiving entry fees under our noses who are ready to drive. Holding spots open for people who might come if they are asked nicely and offered a little special treeatment is a little harder. I remember when RS was a full and diverse class that had some great races. We bounced from group to group because our speed and numbers messed with the status quo wherever we ended up, and a rule change and group change later - woops! Hardly any RS cars now. Change is the rule, not the exception.
 
I came out to my first Conference event in August of 2002. The best race of the week-end and one I talk about to this day was a large group of FFs (or maybe CFs; did that class exist then?) that battled wheel-to-wheel for the duration. Over the last 4 laps, the top 4 cars were each 1st through 4th! It was AMAZING and some of the best racing I'd seen anywhere, ever. Even the non-racing people I was with were riveted by the action.
 
Actually, here's a nice easy suggestion that really seems to reap huge benefits - BBQs! I dunno what it is, but open wheelers sure love their BBQs. Throw in a complementary dinner pig roast and see those entries roll in!!

(just make sure you leave a clean spot on the grill for my veggie burgers..)
 
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