Novice Entry Fees

Scott Norton

Epic Win, I push limit
Novice Entry Fees Not Complaining

I noticed that Mission (IIRC) gave a discount (at least last year) for novice entry fees. Do the other clubs? Just wondering since we only run 3 smaller sessions on Saturday only.

Not complaining just understand what I need to pay prior to arriving at the track.

Each club does it different and thats cool with me.

Entry form does not list novices seperately and I can't access the online entry from work :)mad:)

Thanks!
 
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As far as I remember, the entry fee is the same, no matter what you sign up for. Yes, Novices only run on Saturday, but if you do the math, you actually get more track time than the senior drivers get all weekend.
 
As far as I remember, the entry fee is the same, no matter what you sign up for. Yes, Novices only run on Saturday, but if you do the math, you actually get more track time than the senior drivers get all weekend.

Well I am an Engineer :)o) but my poor math skills show:

Novices, 20 min practice + 20 min practice + 30 min race = 70 mins

Senior 20 min practice + 20 min qualifing + 20 min qualifing + 30 min race = 90 mins

Unless your counting the novice track tour via trailer :p (not saying it is not important)
 
Speaking for IRDC - No, we love our novice drivers so we already offer them a killer deal!

Senior Drivers: 15 min practice + 20 min Sat qual + 20 min Sunday qual + 30 Sun race = 85 possible on track minutes.

Novice Drivers: 15 min Sat practice + 20 Sat practice + 30 min Sat race = 65 possible on track minutes. Now, if we completely ignore the value of 30 minutes of supervised track walk, the time that a bunch of senior drivers contribute to watch and evaluate your on track performance, and the incredible value of having the personal attention of an outstanding License Director who has dedicated himself to helping you join the ranks of ICSCC's experienced Area and Senior drivers, there is still the fact that upon satisfying your requirements to become an Area Driver, your upgrade race is free!

So let's say for the sake of argument that you only intend to race at Seattle -

(3) Novice races, keep your nose clean and take advantage of Mr. Blaylock's wisdom and experience - you get to upgrade to Area Driver and go play with the big boys!

Novice:

(3) x 65 minute novice week-ends + (1) free Area upgrade race, 85 minutes = 280 minutes for $825 dollars (Because of course you are an IRDC member!). Final tally? $2.95 per minute to have the most fun available clothed.

Over that same four race period for Senior drivers:

(4) x 85 minutes = 340 minutes for $1100 or $3.24 per minute.

One caveat - Typically what upgraded novices do is finish their third race on Saturday, get the Novice Director's OK to upgrade, then stick around and race on Sunday. Since you were still a novice on Saturday, you missed the 15 minute practice and 20 minute qualify for Senior race groups. That means your free upgrade adds a 20 minute Sunday qualifying session and a 30 minute Senior race group to your week-end. If you are enough of a freak bargain shopper that you can resist getting out there on your first opportunity, you can wait until the next race week-end and get the additional 35 minutes of Saturday time shown in the calculation above (and tell all your friends that you consider yourself a winner because you saved .29 cents a minute getting your Area license). If, like the rest of us, you just can't wait to get out there and start mixing it up, you will end up spending $3.37 per minute to get your Area License if you upgrade and race on your third week-end.

Hope this complicated mess answers your question. Welcome to ICSCC and IRDC - let me know if there is anything I can do to make your start with us more pleasant!
 
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Makes sense to me....

Works for me :D

And there is no way I would be able to wait till the next weekend once upgraded:cool:

I knew there was some math I was missing!

thanks Rick!
 
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Was that question for me, brother Blaylock?

Or just a reminder to the novices that a proper tire budget is higher per minute than the cost of obtaining their Area License? hehe
 
As a point of interest if you are a student at the march 29th event at o.r.p. You pay $100.00 more than a senior levle driver. But at a $305.00 entry you get 2 1/2 hours of track time (about $2.00 per minute). Broken into 6 -25 minute sessions and you never run the same course twice. We are not student unfriendly but we do pay your instructor. If your instructor signs you off to run with the seniors you get the reduced rate at future star projects events.
 
As a point of interest if you are a student at the march 29th event at o.r.p. You pay $100.00 more than a senior levle driver. But at a $305.00 entry you get 2 1/2 hours of track time (about $2.00 per minute). Broken into 6 -25 minute sessions and you never run the same course twice. We are not student unfriendly but we do pay your instructor. If your instructor signs you off to run with the seniors you get the reduced rate at future star projects events.

Bill, no offense but this thread was specifically asking how it worked for ICSCC sanctioned races put on by ICSCC member clubs.

I am a novice fender to fender racer with ICSCC. But I am not a track day or school day novice having competed on track with SCCA since 2005.
 
When I attended IRDC's novice driving school, lo those many moons ago, I was lucky to have bonded particlarly well with my instructor. After completing the school he became a mentor who helped me navigate all of those tricky and complicated situations that have become second nature to Senior Conference drivers but are not simple or intuitive to Novices at all. As a result I was able to learn quickly and hopefully earn a position of mutual respect among my racing peers. When Senior drivers in ICSCC feel that they can safely race hard in close proximity to you without compromising their safety or your own, you have recieved the ultimate compliment. In this way my mentor became my peer and close friend and I have earned the friendships of a whole lot more great people as well. My advice to ANY new Conference novice would be to listen very carefully to advice from your License Director and if at all possible have him guide you to a mentor that will help you reach your goal of becoming a peer amongst some of the best drivers in the Northwest - ICSCC Senior Race Drivers.

Now if you want to get even farther into the economics of wheel-to-wheel track time, think about running two race groups. On the advice of the afore-mentioned mentor, I entered two race groups on my upgrade day. He felt the best thing in my case was to get as much seat time as possible out of race week-ends so I could reach an acceptable level of proficiency more quickly.

The upside of running two groups? You presumably already have a car and it's specifically for racing - why not race it? All of the cost of prepping a car for the week-end is the same. Cost of loading, unloading, towing to the track is the same. Time you need to be at the track, essentially the same. The second class you enter is also discounted from your first entry - at IRDC races it is $150 for an additional 85 minutes of potential time. That equates to $1.76 per minute, which as you can see from above is a steal for doorhandle to doorhandle track time. Most importantly - you gain real racing experience twice as fast.

The downside? Everything on your car has a number of hours it will survive under the stresses of racing use. If you race twice as many hours at each week-end, everything will get used up twice as fast. If you think your motor has 100 racing hours in it until it needs freshening, it will last three yers instead of six. Consumables like gas, oil, brake pads and rotors, rod ends, tires, etc, etc, etc will all eat your racing budget at twice the rate. You will definitely be busier on race week-ends. Even if you get a really good split like having a car that fits in Groups 3&6, 1&4, or 2&5 you will still have about half the time to shmooze, rest, fix, prep, and show up at pre-grid than someone who is running one group. If you are dead set on winning a championship in a tightly contested class, you might want to have the extra time provided by running a single class to make sure your car is perfectly set up (or as perfect as your skills can produce). Last, but not least, rarely is one car front line competitive in two classes. Club Spec Miatas are VERY competitive in their own class, but must be wheeled pretty expertly to be at the front of ITA for example.

For me, I have enjoyed running two groups every week-end so much that even after all of these years I have never actually attended a Conference race that I only entered one. I know lots of people who enter a single group and feel that is the perfect situation for them. This is something you will need to evaluate for yourself taking into account your expectations and needs. Hey, maybe a mentor could help you with that decision when you get there .....
 
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Thanks for the great advice, Rick. This is the stuff that really helps us noobie drivers.

I'm really looking forward to my first Novice race in April!
 
Hey, just passing on the help that the Senior drivers passed on to me when I was a noob. There are more of us out here looking out for you than you think.

We're looking forwward to seeing you guys out there developing, so feel free to ask if there is something that you would like to know.
 
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Bill, no offense but this thread was specifically asking how it worked for ICSCC sanctioned races put on by ICSCC member clubs.

I am a novice fender to fender racer with ICSCC. But I am not a track day or school day novice having competed on track with SCCA since 2005.

No offense taken Scott. However the thread was discussing the cost of track time, especially as relating to novices. For senior drivers the event on the 29th divides out to $1.36 per minute.

This is the best bargan I can devise to get track experience opportunity to senior drivers and fulfill what I believe is our obligation to train new drivers that will be racing at O.R.P. A novice license will qualify you to be a student at this event.

Although this is not a race, practice is practice, and many of the very senior drivers that were invited to the last event have signed up again to get more of it. At this track we are all novices.

The best of luck this season.
Bill Murray
 
You get full time on track as a Novice Open Wheel driver. Best value in town!

See my for rent ad on the Classified section and let's get you into an open wheeled car for driver training!
 
Rick, was that noob, or nob? Just curious so I can address you properly next time I see you!
Bill, the only down side to the relatively inexpensive track time at ORP is the cost of getting there and back for most of us. I'd guess it's about 6 hours from Seattle with a trailer in tow, or maybe 7? That's alot of fuel and time to put out for practice, even though runnig that track is a real treat form what I've been told.
As soon it has been sanctioned and put on the calendar I will be there for sure.
 
How long would it take you to drive to Longview Wes? Add three hours or so to that figure and you have the drive down from Seattle via I-5 to I-205 Out through the Gorge to Biggs, then south 30 miles from I-84. Yep it is a drive and yes, the place is still pretty primitive. I would love to see some open wheelers and sports racers on that track to see how they would work and if they will bring any special visibility issues for the turn workers. What I would really love to see out there is a pack of Atlantics! What a track for them!

Rob
 
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