Will Conference Survive?

jharvey

Well-known member
Having been around ICSCC almost my entire life, I am concerned about the health of ICSCC. I am looking to buy a car but am nervous about the survival of conference based on the car counts I've been watching in steady decline.

I'm sure it's a question that no one wants to ask, but if I'm going to invest in getting back into racing it would be good to have an idea as to the financial health of ICSCC and it's clubs.

Anyone able to shed some light?
 
My opinion is yes, it will survive. I've been involved in motorsports for almost 50 years. In that time, there have been periods when I thought one or another SCCA racing regions might stop racing, but they have kept on. Conference racing has never been that low. There have always been periods when car counts drop off for a time. Those periods generally match up with economic down turns, but once the economy recovers, racing is back in business. Likewise, early races are generally the ones with low car count. Lots of reasons for that. Poor weather, car not ready after the off season, etc. With the addition of new series like Lucky Dog Racing League, new drivers are getting a taste for racing. Some of those will move up to Conference or SCCA. I don't see Conference racing folding anytime soon. Just my $0.02 worth.
 
I agree with Rob on this Josh. I have watched the swings in attendance for over 40 years, and often wondered the same thing, but it has always rebounded. I sadly do not see the OW and SR cars ever having the grids we once enjoyed, but there are still enough to make it viable to come back. I'm trying to buy another car also, and if I can it will be a G3 or G6 car for sure.
Would be great to have you back.

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I agree with Rob on this Josh. I have watched the swings in attendance for over 40 years, and often wondered the sam thing, but it has always rebounded. I sadly do not see the OW and SR cars ever having the grids we once enjoyed, but there are still enough to viable to come back. I'm trying to buy another also, and if I can it will be a G3 or G6 car for sure.
Would be great to have you back.
 
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The question about Conference’s survival has been raised and I think that it survive only as an adjunct to NASA whose rules, classes and procedures it is rapidly adopting, leaving the traditional Conference classes and racers excluded.

The biggest threat to its continuance is that it is becoming a bigoted “Old Boys” group in that if your face fits, you’re in. If not get lost, you’re not welcome.

In my opinion.

If you find this incomprehensible then let me tell you my story.

In 2014, on short notice because my wife was back east giving end of life care to one of her sisters, I made a quick foray to a race at Pacific raceways. On Saturday morning I was prevented from going in the first track session by a leaking fuel pump. Ready for the afternoon session, I noted that it was listed as a “Qualifying Race” on the schedule. Inquiring about this, I was told that it was still just a qualifying session, they just wanted to start it like a race. This was run and I returned to my pit like always. Shortly afterwards the weighmaster approached me to inquire if I had gone over the scales. I replied that it was not a Championship race and weighing was not required. He agreed and returned to the weigh station. Upon checking the times I found I was listed with “No Time”, in other words disqualified. I approached the Steward for an explanation given the Competition Regulations did not require weighing on a non-points track session. His reply was that “they” thought it should be just like a race in all facets. I was S.O.L.

Forward to 2015. I entered the race at O.R.P. and I had only one other competitor. In the race due to a balky shift linkage (since repaired) and inappropriate gearing, I fell two laps behind during the race. As it wound down I was surprised to see my competitor parked well off in the infield with a broken left front spindle. I counted two laps that I passed him meaning that we were now even but as I crossed the start/finish line once more I was taken aback to see the chequered flag (there was no Last Lap Board). I’ve been racing for 44 years, don’t tell me I don’t look at the stations.

Uncertain as to the finishing order, I waited until the next day, when due to the difficulties with the car I was going to withdraw and return home, to check with Driver Services who assured me the win fell to me so I took my trophies and we started for home. Ten days later while in a telephone conversation with one of the T.C. officials, my wife learned that the finish had been reversed and I wasn’t the winner. I inquired of the same Steward who had taken away my times for not weighing at Pacific Raceways and he told me that the Competition Committee had got together and it was decided that the other driver, who was a member of the Competition Committee, should have the win. When I asked about him weighing, I was told “they” thought it would be too much trouble so the rule was waived.

Since results are supposed to be official after 30 minutes (I was not informed there was a protest or query) and the winner is required to weigh by the Competition Regulations, I protested. In the package that was sent out, of which I received a copy, the Steward plainly stated to the members of the Contest Board that if they were having trouble making their decision, they were free to call him and he would guide them on their vote. One further event was that an official who I had previously admired and respected called me and tried to lobby me to withdraw my protest saying it was unwinnable. This was a tactic I endured where I worked when ever there was a dispute over conditions of employment. It boiled down to “Don’t’ make waves, someone will ask questions.” I found it repugnant in both cases.

I lost the protest.

I appealed to the Executive Board because I felt that the Steward was not acting impartially since the rule change which allowed a non-finishing car to be scored had been proposed and sent through the Contest Board Meeting by a Steward’s panel of which this self-same Steward was a member. I was in the position of appealing a rule to a person responsible for implementing it and had not recused himself but had taken an active part in having it upheld. I never did get a proper answer to my appeal from the Executive Board but I did hear anecdotally that one club up-held the Steward, not on the merits of the case, but because they thought it would be too embarrassing for him, the Steward, to be overturned.

Since the Steward had to willfully break at least two Competition regulations and make a farce of other procedures in Conference, why you might ask did someone go to all this trouble to stick their thumb in the eye of a septuagenarian racer who has faithfully participated and supported Conference for 45 seasons?

The answer, in my opinion, is right there on the engine cover of my racecar.

Even an august publication such as Road & Track has noted in an article that the vast majority of racers come from the right side of the political spectrum. They support the party whose official colour is Red. Its mascot is the elephant. With some irony, they call themselves the Party of Lincoln.

On my engine cover is a decal for a trade union to which I belong, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

In my working life I was a master machinist and being proud of my trade and the skill sets it gives me to bring to the repair, maintenance, and upgrading of my racecar I display the insignia of the IAM&AW. Not as a political statement but a symbol of the pride I have in my profession and my skill sets.

Since the Red/Elephant/Lincoln party is moving to the extreme right it is now virulently anti-labour and anti-union. I guess someone wanted to show the “Lunchbox Lout” just who is in charge here.

I don’t go where I’m not welcome, I’m gone.
 
The issue of ICSCC not actually following the rule book goes back a long ways, this is nothing new. Is it the reason that entries have fallen? I don't know. Having been a member of IRDC I remember going to meetings and hearing the break-even car count, and unless the cost of PR has come down, then they must be losing money at each race.

I've been here since I was a kid, ran my own car for 2006, 2007 and 2008 and prepped a CF and FC after that and there is something going out there. One of two things have happened. Either ICSCC's politics have scared people away or the "recovery" economy we have been sold is not actually true.

It's tough to get excited about going back to a class that I love that is running several seconds off the times they should and just driving around by myself. I guess it's the chicken or the egg, but that is an expensive game.

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The issue of ICSCC not actually following the rule book goes back a long ways, this is nothing new. Is it the reason that entries have fallen? I don't know. Having been a member of IRDC I remember going to meetings and hearing the break-even car count, and unless the cost of PR has come down, then they must be losing money at each race.

I've been here since I was a kid, ran my own car for 2006, 2007 and 2008 and prepped a CF and FC after that and there is something going out there. One of two things have happened. Either ICSCC's politics have scared people away or the "recovery" economy we have been sold is not actually true.

It's tough to get excited about going back to a class that I love that is running several seconds off the times they should and just driving around by myself. I guess it's the chicken or the egg, but that is an expensive game.
 
Josh - IRDC is in good shape financially. It recently lowered its entry fees, and not to attract more entries. ICSCC rebated some surplus funds to the 5 member clubs last year. It too is in good shape.

Paul - While I was the Race Steward I refrained from responding to your paranoia-soaked treatises. But now that I have no official role in Conference, any credible and fact-based challenge to my integrity (still waiting for one) will be met with a robust (and quite likely scathing) defense. Finally, you have not a fart in a tornado's worth of a clue what my politics are, but they are quite opposite to those of several of my mutually most treasured and respected racing friends and competitors.

Bob Mearns
 
.....Paul - While I was the Race Steward I refrained from responding to your paranoia-soaked treatises. But now that I have no official role in Conference, any credible and fact-based challenge to my integrity (still waiting for one) will be met with a robust (and quite likely scathing) defense. Finally, you have not a fart in a tornado's worth of a clue what my politics are, but they are quite opposite to those of several of my mutually most treasured and respected racing friends and competitors......Bob Mearns

WOW! Just from that, I can see Paul's point! Vicious and vindictive attack to what seems to be some serious questions about Steward Decision Making :( :(

And, you waited all of 24 hours ..... LOL

I'd be impressed if you waited a week :)

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Paul - Anyone who has ever competed, from Little League to the Pros, knows that the officials calls will never always go your way. If you can't handle not getting your way all of the time maybe you never should have started competing in the first place. Having to rebound from adversity is what makes us better. It's part of the learning process and growing up.

Goodbye;
Mac Russell

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Paul - Anyone who has ever competed, from Little League to the Pros, knows that the officials calls will never always go your way. If you can't handle not getting your way all of the time maybe you never should have started competing in the first place. Having to rebound from adversity is what makes us better. It's part of the learning process and growing up.

Goodbye;
Mac Russell
 
Richard, Bob didn't wait 24 hours, he's waited since 2015 to respond to Paul's numerous slanderous narratives.

Perceptions are amazing. Let's just say that one person views the circumstances of their life one way, and a rather large group of people, after very careful and objective consideration, see it another way. Then, when one doesn't receive the result they feel entitled to, to assign the outcome of a situation to the basis of some difference in political worldview, is completely absurd.

Conference is doing fine.
 
Randy, i understand your point and I guess Paul's issues go back more then the one day ago he made the post. Although I don't recall seeing past posts here about his issues.

I'm just rather shocked by the whole thing. I remember the days when you were involved in the management of IRDC and Wes was too. It seemed to 'always' be equitable and fair.

His whole weigh scale issues sound like it was a small thing simple to resolve in an amicable way and went all out off control for no reason.
 
Nothing went out of control and there were ample, seriously considered, reasons closely following Conference protocol designed to give all involved a fair and complete hearing with multiple opportunities for mitigation, appeal, and redress. ICSCC presents not just the perception of fairness and transparency - it has multiple layers of processes designed specifically to insure actual fairness and transparency.

In my experience the VOLUNTEERS who currently work tirelessly serving their fellow racers to honor and sustain the decades of ICSCC legacy passed down to them take it incredibly seriously. That is one of the things that is most troubling about this whole discussion - Mr Whitworth was one of those people who gave great service to his fellow racers protecting and serving that legacy. The Stewarding team (disclaimer - I was a member of that team) agonized over interpreting the combination of rules that were written and passed by the consensus of Conference drivers and arrived at a fair ruling that they felt upheld the will of the membership of the ICSCC. When questioned about that ruling they consulted past Stewards and the Competition Committee specifically created under Conference rules to advise the Stewards to make sure the ruling was fair and consistent. After these steps Mr Whitworth still felt the ruling was incorrect so he protested the decision to the ICSCC Contest Board as is his right under Conference rules. There is and should be no negative associated with such a protest since it is in everyone's best interest to insure the rule interpretations made by Conference race officials are consistent and fair. Mr. Whitworth lost this appeal and even after this level of confirmation of the Stewards ruling there were two more levels of appeal available to him!

For anyone who reads this you should take away a few things -

1) Anyone who feels that they can negatively affected by the capricious nature of a race official at one of our events should take a closer look at our Competition Regulations and Policy and Procedure handbook - there is oversight at every level of Conference and multiple layers of appeal to assure that everyone involved with the organization is treated fairly and consistently.

2) It is each drivers responsibility to read and understand the rules that apply to racing in our organization. One of the ICSCC's great strengths is that drivers have an opportunity to make rule changes each and every year to shape Conference into an organization that serves them better. That also means if drivers don't keep up with those rule changes on a year to year basis they can be surprised be a ruling that may be different for the last time they raced. Stewards don't make policy, they are the instrument by which drivers enforce policy that they have created for themselves.

3) In spite of Mr Whitworth's somewhat paranoid sounding rant it should be recognized that he has raced with Conference for decades and served with distinction as both President and Advisor of the organization which should be respected. He perhaps more than most should know how carefully Stewards are selected, the amount of training involved, the investment of effort required, the layers of oversight imposed, and the opportunities for appeal available. That is what makes this misguided conspiracy theory confusing to me.

THAT is why I can say say with confidence that nothing went "out of control" and attributing personal motivation to the outcome of this incident is completely inappropriate.

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Nothing went out of control and there were ample, seriously considered, reasons closely following Conference protocol designed to give all involved a fair and complete hearing with multiple opportunities for mitigation, appeal, and redress. ICSCC presents not just the perception of fairness and transparency - it has multiple layers of processes designed specifically to insure actual fairness and transparency.

In my experience the VOLUNTEERS who currently work tirelessly serving their fellow racers to honor and sustain the decades of ICSCC legacy passed down to them take it incredibly seriously. That is one of the things that is most troubling about this whole discussion - Mr Whitworth was one of those people who gave great service to his fellow racers protecting and serving that legacy. The Stewarding team (disclaimer - I was a member of that team) agonized over interpreting the combination of rules that were written and passed by the consensus of Conference drivers and arrived at a fair ruling that they felt upheld the will of the membership of the ICSCC. When questioned about that ruling they consulted past Stewards and the Competition Committee specifically created under Conference rules to advise the Stewards to make sure the ruling was fair and consistent. After these steps Mr Whitworth still felt the ruling was incorrect so he protested the decision to the ICSCC Contest Board as is his right under Conference rules. There is and should be no negative associated with such a protest since it is in everyone's best interest to insure the rule interpretations made by Conference race officials are consistent and fair. Mr. Whitworth lost this appeal and even after this level of confirmation of the Stewards ruling there were two more levels of appeal available to him!

For anyone who reads this you should take away a few things -

1) Anyone who feels that they can negatively affected by the capricious nature of a race official at one of our events should take a closer look at our Competition Regulations and Policy and Procedure handbook - there is oversight at every level of Conference and multiple layers of appeal to assure that everyone involved with the organization is treated fairly and consistently.

2) It is each drivers responsibility to read and understand the rules that apply to racing in our organization. One of the ICSCC's great strengths is that drivers have an opportunity to make rule changes each and every year to shape Conference into an organization that serves them better. That also means if drivers don't keep up with those rule changes on a year to year basis they can be surprised be a ruling that may be different for the last time they raced. Stewards don't make policy, they are the instrument by which drivers enforce policy that they have created for themselves.

3) In spite of Mr Whitworth's somewhat paranoid sounding rant it should be recognized that he has raced with Conference for decades and served with distinction as both President and Advisor of the organization which should be respected. He perhaps more than most should know how carefully Stewards are selected, the amount of training involved, the investment of effort required, the layers of oversight imposed, and the opportunities for appeal available. That is what makes this misguided conspiracy theory confusing to me.

THAT is why I can say say with confidence that nothing went "out of control" and attributing personal motivation to the outcome of this incident is completely inappropriate.
 
That's what I would have thought Rick. I'm glad to see I totally miss judged this situation when I first read through it and saw the initial response.
 
This has been a fascinating exchange of comments. While every organization has its internal politics that affects everyone, my biggest concern was the financial health of ICSCC and the dependency of its lifeblood...volunteers. The thoughts and opinions, whether good or bad, spread like wildfire. I have had no sense of out-of-control politics or problems while at the track like ICSCC experienced several years ago from a small group of people, but the dwindling car counts are a concern. Dwindling car counts also equates to dwindling volunteer counts which is even worse.

The days of open trailers and buddies helping out seems to be coming to an end. This is the whole reason I posted this in the first place. It's the chicken or the egg, is someone to invest in racing and hope that others join them or do they wait on the sidelines for others to get out there and then join in. There are lots of racecars sitting in garages around here. Why are they not coming out? I have no interest in any class that you can't see your own tires while going down the track, nor do I have any interest in showing up and simply collecting trophies. In the end the only way to know is to get out there I suppose. I wish I could go back to the says of 30+ cars in group 3.

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This has been a fascinating exchange of comments. While every organization has its internal politics that affects everyone, my biggest concern was the financial health of ICSCC and the dependency of its lifeblood...volunteers. The thoughts and opinions, whether good or bad, spread like wildfire. I have had no sense of out-of-control politics or problems while at the track like ICSCC experienced several years ago from a small group of people, but the dwindling car counts are a concern. Dwindling car counts also equates to dwindling volunteer counts which is even worse.

The days of open trailers and buddies helping out seems to be coming to an end. This is the whole reason I posted this in the first place. It's the chicken or the egg, is someone to invest in racing and hope that others join them or do they wait on the sidelines for others to get out there and then join in. There are lots of racecars sitting in garages around here. Why are they not coming out? I have no interest in any class that you can't see your own tires while going down the track, nor do I have any interest in showing up and simply collecting trophies. In the end the only way to know is to get out there I suppose. I wish I could go back to the says of 30+ cars in group 3.
 
We had 15 FCs last weekend at Spokane and we are always looking to add more so you are more than welcome to come join!

One car did come in on an open trailer so that meets one of your requirements. Also I am pretty sure 75% of the guys spent more time under other peoples canopies helping get cars together and running so the buddies helping is very much still alive at least in our class. You will most likely not win a trophy against some of the young kids we have running in our series as they seem to be getting faster every year. We don't always run conference events as half of our field is from the north side of the border but we generally try and do 2-3 in conference weekends each season. Cars are a little hard to come by locally these days as all the advertised ones have been snapped up by us and currently we have a list of about 6 guys that we are trying to find rides for. If you are interested in CFCs then maybe give Greg Coffin a ring as he said he knows of some cars hiding in garages.

Check us out and come race!

www.northwestfc.net

https://www.facebook.com/NorthwestFormulaContinental/

Spokane Race https://youtu.be/F_VqmDy_SIs

or send us an email @ northwestfcseries@gmail.com

Roger

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We had 15 FCs last weekend at Spokane and we are always looking to add more so you are more than welcome to come join!

One car did come in on an open trailer so that meets one of your requirements. Also I am pretty sure 75% of the guys spent more time under other peoples canopies helping get cars together and running so the buddies helping is very much still alive at least in our class. You will most likely not win a trophy against some of the young kids we have running in our series as they seem to be getting faster every year. We don't always run conference events as half of our field is from the north side of the border but we generally try and do 2-3 in conference weekends each season. Cars are a little hard to come by locally these days as all the advertised ones have been snapped up by us and currently we have a list of about 6 guys that we are trying to find rides for. If you are interested in CFCs then maybe give Greg Coffin a ring as he said he knows of some cars hiding in garages.

Check us out and come race!

www.northwestfc.net

https://www.facebook.com/NorthwestFormulaContinental/

Spokane Race https://youtu.be/F_VqmDy_SIs

or send us an email @ northwestfcseries@gmail.com

Roger
 
I've seen more cars. I've seen less. ICSCC is surviving quite well considering the equivalent competition for venues in the area. The Conference Regulations are a basic and well established consistency that has served as the clubs' foundation for operation for over, what? Five decades? Changing and flowing with the times and the diversity that is motorsports.

Business-wise speaking each chartered club has it's own responsibilities for adjusting to the market. Some have better markets than others due to location, for sure. But we have also seen two tracks develop in the last ten years alone inviting and providing for more potential road racers. But also spreading the "Conference" ranks perceptively thinner due to those distances and number of events/races per season.

Regardless, the ICSCC Championship series is still very much alive, and very much just as competitive as it has been for the time that I can look back on until today. The profits may fluctuate, but the passion is the same. If a club breaks even, they live to race another day.

NASA??

BilltheCat.jpg
 
I have known Paul for over 40 years, and I respect both his intelligence and his passion for Conference. I was proud to serve on the E-board when he was President, and I appreciated his no nonsense approach to running those meetings and making progress as an organization.
For him to be this upset tells me there were, or are issues we on the outside do not know or understand. Sounds like serious misunderstandings at best and ineffective communication at worst. I hate to see anyone who has raced this long with us, and has served both his local club and ICSCC so well for so many decades, to walk away. So I would ask for a little leniency on the part of those angered by his comments.
Paul, I am not sure why politics was offered up by you since I rarely hear anyone in this group discussing that on the forum or at the track. I am a very proud conservative who undoubtedly has opinions and beliefs far from yours, but that has never reared its ugly head between us in our long friendship, or with anyone else in this organization. I hope you will reconsider and come back to race again, at least at PR and Mission because it we have lost enough of our fellow racers this last decade through age, health issues and numerous passings. Let's not let go until we have to please.

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I have known Paul for over 40 years, and I respect both his intelligence and his passion for Conference. I was proud to serve on the E-board when he was President, and I appreciated his no nonsense approach to running those meetings and making progress as an organization.
For him to be this upset tells me there were, or are issues we on the outside do not know or understand. Sounds like serious misunderstandings at best and ineffective communication at worst. I hate to see anyone who has raced this long with us, and has served both his local club and ICSCC so well for so many decades, to walk away. So I would ask for a little leniency on the part of those angered by his comments.
Paul, I am not sure why politics was offered up by you since I rarely hear anyone in this group discussing that on the forum or at the track. I am a very proud conservative who undoubtedly has opinions and beliefs far from yours, but that has never reared its ugly head between us in our long friendship, or with anyone else in this organization. I hope you will reconsider and come back to race again, at least at PR and Mission because it we have lost enough of our fellow racers this last decade through age, health issues and numerous passings. Let's not let go until we have to please.
 
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